HomeMy WebLinkAbout86-0975
BRYAN K. SEIFERT,
Plaintiff
V.
CYNWYD INVESTMENTS t/s MANOR
APARTMENTS and THOMAS
ESPOSITO and BRIAN LOGUE
Defendant
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IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSti'LVANIA
N0. 975 CIVIL 1986
CIVIL ACTION - LAW
IN TRESPASS
Partial proceedings held before the Honorable
GEORGE E. HOPPER, J., Cumberland County Courthouse,
Carlisle, Pennsylvania, on Monday. June 25, 1990,
in Courtroom Number Three.
APPEARANCES;
THOMAS A. LANG, Esquire
For the Plaintiff r
;gib -
Q. ~.
THOMAS J. DUFFY, Esquire ~;~~_~
For the Defendant
Cdr
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Gerald J, Kufta
(Qualifications)
BY Mr. Lang
By Mr. Duffy
By Mr. Lang
BY Mr. Duffy
DIRECT
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C7
June 25, 1990
Carlisle, Pennsylvania
MR. LANG: Your Honor, I would like to call
Gerald Kufta at this time,
Whereupon,
GERALD JOHN KUFTA
having been duly sworn, testified as follows;
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. LANG;
Q Sir, would You please state your name and
address?
A Gerald John Kufta, 4090 West Market Street,
York, Pennsylvania.
Q Mr, Kufta, have you had an opportunity to
review this case and arrive at an opinion regarding the
cause and origin of the fire?
A Yes,
Q Before we discuss your opinions, I must
first discuss your qualifications that permit you to
render your opinions in this courtroom.
Along those lines, would you please state
your educational background for the jury?
A Certainly. In 1968 I became a member of
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1 the Pennsylvania State Police. I worked as a state
2 policeman until 1981 when I retired.
3 During mY tenure as a state policeman, I
4 began patrolling the highways. After five Years, I was
5 laterally transferred into the Criminal Investigative Un:it
6 of the Pennsylvania State Police. And then I began
7 specializing in 1978 as a fire investigator or Fire
8 Marshal. This was all done at the York Barracks in York
9 County, Pennsylvania.
10 I have attended a multitude of seminars all
11 over the country with a maJoritY of the seminars being
12 held in Pennsylvania and New Jersey and some in Maryland,
13 These seminars were for the educational purposes of
14 investigating fires. And they really leaned a lot toward
15 the investigation of arson fires or fires that are set by
16 people.
17 I also have attended and graduated the York
18 College of Pennsylvanip. I did that on a part-time basis
19 over a nine year period two nights a week and graduated in
20 1980 with a Bachelor of Science degree in Police Science
21 and Criminal Justice.
22 Q Let me stop you there, Mr. Kufta. Your
23 position with the Pennsylvania State Police, how long were
24 you a trooper?
25 A 14 Years.
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1 Q And what were the different ranks or
2 positions tha t you held?
3 A The rank was Trooper. But the positions
4 varied from t raffic patrol to criminal investigation, fire
5 investigator. I was also a photographer for the State
6 Police for aw hile,
7 Q As p fire investigator, what
8 responsibilit ies did that involve?
9 A Very similar to what Trooper Klages gust
10 testified to. I was responsible for the investigation of
11 fires to dete rmine their cause of origin and to determine
12 specifically whether or not they were acts of criminal
13 conspiracy, n egligence, whatever, Or whether they were
14 accidental. And if they were accidental, normally we d:id
15 not follow-up the fire.
16 Q As a fire marshal with the Pennsylvania
17 State Police, approximately how many fires did You
18 investigate?
19 A As a state trooper?
20 Q Yes.
21 A I would say approximately four to five
22 hundred,
23 Q Of that amount, approximately how many
24 involved the investigation of fires that had an electrical
25 origin?
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1 A Perhaps 10 to 15 percent,
2 Q Following your employment with the
3 Pennsylvania State Police, how were you employed?
4 A I went to work for the Commercial Union
5 Insurance Company as a special unit investigator. I was
6 responsible for the Mid-Atlantic region, which encompassed
7 Pennsylvania, Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey and portions
8 of New York,
9 In that regard, I had helped also to
10 instruct all of the claims adJusters from all over the
11 nation on fires, investigation of fires, prevention of
12 fires,
13 I wrote and developed several programs
14 while with that company in that regard, slide
15 presentations, I believe the slide presentation that I
16 did on vehicle fires is also being used now or
17 periodically at the National Fire Academy in Emmitsburg,
18 Maryland, where I also teach,
19 Q How long were you with Commercial Union?
20 A Almost four years.
21 Q And what was your title at Commercial
22 Union?
23 A I was the manager of the Special
24 Investigative Unit for Commercial Union, the Mid-Atlantic
25 region,
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1 Q Following that job, and to the present
2 time, how are you employed?
3 A November of 1984, I obtained a private
4 investigator's license, and I have been self-employed from
5 that point on. And I am the owner of Kufta Associates,
6 Q Do you hold other employment in addition to
7 Kufta Associates?
8 A I am an adjunct to the faculty qt the
9 National Fire Academy in Emmitsburg, Maryland. I began
10 teaching down there in '79, I believe it was, 1979.
11 And as a fact, I began teaching arson
12 investigation and arson detention courses all over the
13 nation for the National Fire Academy. We teach all of 'the
14 fire investigators from all over the world how to
15 investigate a fire.
16 Q Could you explain for the jury the business
17 of Kufta Associates and what it involves?
18 A Well, actually it is a two-fold business.
19 The portion of the business that I am involved with is we
20 deal totally with the investigation of fires in attempts
21 to determine why they start, where they start, and perhaps
22 what started them, and sometimes perhaps who started them.
23 The other section of the business deals with other aspects
24 of investigation, accident investigations, Workmans
25 Compensation investigations, things of that nature.
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1 Q How long has Kufta Associates been in
2 business?
3 A November 1984.
4 Q And are you licensed?
5 A Yes, I am.
6 Q By what Board or what panel?
7 A I am licensed by the County of York as a
8 private investigator, which is good throughout the state.
9 Q Approximately how many fires have you had
10 the opportunity to investigate as part of Kufta
11 Associates? Perhaps maybe how many per year,
12 A Well, so far this Year, we have done over a
13 hundred. I have investigated approximately 2000 fires in
14 my career. Is that --
15 Q Of that amount, approximately what
16 percentage involves electrical fires?
17 A 10 to 15 percent,
18 Q Mr. Kufta, have you had the opportunity to
19 attend any courses or seminars regarding fire
20 investigati on?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Did any of those seminars deal with the
23 issue of el ectrical fires and investigating electrical
24 fires?
25 A Specifically I believe ~~~ of them did.
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1 And that was at the University of Delaware, It was a
2 specific course on fire investigation, electrical fire
3 investigation,
4 Q With the other courses and seminars, did
5 they have any involvement in analyzing electrical origin
6 of fires?
7 A I would say that 90 percent of the courses
8 that we have attended, that I have attended, deal in some
9 aspect with electrical fires. It is a part of the
10 investigation business. I teach electrical fire
11 investigation at the national level when we teach at the
12 Fire Academy.
13 Q Have you written any materials in the field
14 of fire investigation?
15 A The only thing that I have written were
16 courses that were -- that I presented. For instance, I
17 wrote and presented the course that was taught to the
18 Florida State Fire Marshals at their annual meeting, 1982,
19 I believe,
20 Again, I have written courses -- not
21 courses, but documents for the insurance company, so that
22 they know what to look for when they were investigating
23 fires or looking at fire losses. For the risk personnel,
24 to know what to look for to prevent fires,
25 Q Mr. Kufta, are you presently a member of
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1 any professional organizations?
2 A I belong to the International Association
3 of Arson Investigators. I belong to the Pennsylvania
4 Association of Arson Investigators. I am a charter member
5 of the National Association of Fire Academy Instructors,
6 And I believe that is all right now.
7 Q Have you ever been qualified in the past in
8 a courtroom as an expert in the field of fire cause and
9 origin?
10 A Yes, I have.
11 MR. LANG: Your Honor, at this time I would
12 like to offer Mr. Kufta as an expert in the field of fire
13 cause and origin investigation and qualified to render an
14 opinion in this case as to both the cause and origin of
15 the fire that is involved.
16 THE COURT: Do you have some questions?
17 MR. DUFFY: I have a couple questions, Your
18 Honor.
19 THE COURT: Go ahead.
20
21 CROSS-EXAMINATION
22 (As to Qualifications)
23 BY MR. DUFFY:
24 Q You don't have a degree in Electrical
25 Engineering, do you, sir?
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1 A No.
2 Q You don't have a degree in any type of
3 engineering?
4 A No, sir.
5 Q And we heard Trooper Klages talk about the
6 fires that he investigated. You would agree that when you
7 were with the State Fire Marshal's office that you were
8 concerned with fires that may be criminal in nature?
9 A That was the basis of what the Fire Marshal
10 is supposed to be, yes. But if you are asking me
11 personally, I would say I don't think -- that is not an
12 accurate statement, no.
13 Q But the Fire Marshal's office would be to
14 determine if the fire was incendiary, meaning it was set,
15 and then if it is not incendiary or doesn't involve a
16 tremendous amount of loss of life or property, pretty much
17 the Fire Marshal doesn't dig any deeper?
18 A He doesn't have to.
19 Q You would agree that the techniques you use
20 for investigating an arson fire, such as checking if there
21 is a pour pattern of accelerant, or determining if it had
22 been set, is a little different than getting down with a
23 microscope and determining whether or not there is beading
24 or trenching or what caused a short in a wire?
25 A Considerably different, yes, sir,
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1 Q Now, I am trying to figure out -- figure
2 out how you got to investigate so many fires with the Fire
3 Marshal's offic e. The trooper that was Just here said he
4 does about 120 a year. Didn't you Just testify that you
5 started in the Fire Marshal's office in 1979?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. And I have your resume here.
8 A '78.
9 THE COURT; '78.
10 BY MR. DUFFY;
11 Q I am sorry, '78. And then you retired in
12 1980,
13 A '81.
14 Q So you were there a total of three years?
15 A That is four years. '78, '79, '80 and '81.
16 Q So you were there a total of four years :in
17 the Fire Marshal's office.
18 A That is correct.
19 Q Now, of all the courses that you have on
20 your resume -- do you have a copy of it in front of vou?
21 A No, I don't.
22 Q Are you familiar with it?
23 A It is my resume..
24 Q You would agree that all of them, with the
25 exception of the one at the University of Delaware, deal
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1 with arson investigation?
2 A That is correct,
3 Q They don't deal with electrical fire
4 investigation?
5 A With the exception of one, Yes, sir, that
6 is correct,
7 Q And I guess You are pretty busy because you
8 put on your re sume that Kufta Associates investigates all
9 aspects of ins urance fraud.
10 Does that mean like car thefts and phony
11 stock claims a nd all that type of stuff? Do you do that?
12 A I don't, no, sir.
13 Q But the company?
14 A MY company does, Yes, it does,
15 Q And I see you are a member -- and they do
16 accident recon struction, how accidents happen?
17 A Not reconstruction, no, sir, We don't have
18 any engineers for that, They do the investigation, the
19 periphery, int erviewing, documenting.
20 Q And I see You are on the New Jersey vehicle
21 theft investig ators, Is that --
22 A Not anymore.
23 Q You were a member of that?
24 A Yes,
25 Q And then I see that You are qualified as an
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1 expert in fingerprinting?
2 A Yes, I was.
3 Q And You are an expert in photography?
4 A I was considered to be, yes.
5 Q Do you ever work at Kufta Associates with
6 electrical e ngineers?
7 A Yes, I do,
8 Q Do you have any that are aligned with your
9 staff or a p art of your staff?
10 A Not aligned, no, sir. We work very heavily
11 with the con sulting engineers in Malvern, Pennsylvania.
12 They do the majority of our electrical investigations for
13 us.
14 Q Would that be Paul Sambrowsy Associates?
15 Is that who you deal with there?
16 A Occasionally we do, yes. But mostly Bruce
17 Crowley of C onsulting Engineers, Incorporated,
18 Q So when you have an electrical fire, often
19 you bring in an electrical consulting engineer to help you
20 pinpoint or help you get better information about what
21 caused the f ire?
22 A That is correct,
23 Q And you do that because you are not really
24 qualified as an electrical expert?
25 A That is correct,
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1 Q And this fire, we are dealing with an
2 electrical fire?
3 A Yes, we are,
4 Q Okay. And you have Just told us you are
5 not qualified as an electrical expert on fires?
6 A That is correct.
7 MR. DUFFY. Okay. No further questions at
8 this time, Your Honor, but I have an objection,
9 THE COURT: All right. Well, it has been
10 almost an hour anyway, ladies and gentlemen, so while I
11 deal with that, let's take a recess and I will call you
12 back down,
13 (Whereupon, the jury withdrew from the
14 courtroom.)
15 THE COURT: Let the record reflect that we
16 have sent the jury out. Sir?
17 MR. DUFFY: Your Honor, I would object to
18 this man qualifying broadly as an expert at cause and
19 origin. Since what we are dealing with here is electrical
20 fire, and he just testified he is not an expert in
21 electrical fires.
22 THE COURT: How did you offer Mr. Kufta?
23 MR. LANG: As an expert in the field of
24 fire cause and investigation, Not as an expert in the
25 field of electrical fire investigations.
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1 He is only going to be testifying as to the
2 origin of the fire, where it started, based on the burn
3 patterns, based on the evidence, and the cause. I think;
4 he is qualified to say it was electrical.
5 Beyond that point, Mr. Duffy may have a
6 point as to whether or not he can say how electrically it
7 caused the fire, But I am not offering him for that
8 purpose.
9 Mr. Grow will be testifying as to how
10 electrically this fire was caused,
11 THE COURT: So what is his opinion going to
12 be?
13 MR. LANG: His opinion is going to be that
14 the fire originated in the left corner of the apartment
15 near the fish tank, based an the burn patterns, And that
16 it was caused electrically. But not spe~~ifically how. He
17 is not going to go into shorting and all of the elements
18 of electricity.
19 THE COURT: Sir?
20 MR. DUFFY: Your Honor, if he limits
21 himself to saying that the fire started in the area of the
22 fish tank, then I think that is okay, But once he gets
23 beyond and starts talking about what the heat source could
24 be, or what. it couldn't be, I think he is -- if it is in
25 anyway electrical, I think he Just said he is not an
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1 expert in that. We all agree it started near the fish
2 tank.
3 THE COURT: All right. Well, Mr. Kufta is
4 not your main expert?
5 MR. LANG: He is the expert to say where
6 the fire originated and what the cause was. Mr. Grow will
7 testify as to the electrical principals, as to how what
8 was found could cause the fire electrically or did cause
9 the fire.
10 THE COURT: All right.
11 MR. LANG: I will limit him to that when we
12 get to the paint of him saying it originated in the fish
13 tank and was electrical in origin, that is it.
14 THE COURT: All right. Well, let's keep it
15 on that. Let's keep it nice and tight.
16 But do you still have some ob.iection,
17 counselor, that I am not really understanding it?
18 MR. DUFFY: Yes, Your Honor.
19 THE COURT: The man is a fire marshal,
20 investigates fires.
21 MR. DUFFY: Right. But he has Just said he
22 is not an expert on electrical fires and he is not an
23 electrical expert.
24 THE COURT: We don't want to get into a
25 battle of semantics. We all know the fire wasn't started
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1 by kerosene or something like that. And having eliminated
2 that and the fact it wasn`t started by a smoking
3 cigarette, there has to be electric. You agree to that,.
4 don't you?
5 MR. DUFFY: I agree to that. But when ii:
6 gets beyond that and starts splitting as to what wire ii.
7 could have been or where the wires are, I think he is
8 beyond his point of expertise.
9 THE COURT: I agree on that.
10 MR. LANG: I agree.
11 THE COURT: And let's hold it to that, Mr',
12 Lang.
13 MR. LANG: I will.
14 THE COURT: Okay,
15 tWhereupon, a recess was taken.)
16 (Witness resumes the stand.)
17 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, Sir,
18 MR. LANG: Thank you, Your Honor,
19
20 DIRECT EXAMINATION
21 BY MR. LANG:
22 Q Mr. Kufta, you indicated earlier you ha d
23 the opportunity to conduct an investigation regarding triis
24 fire. What was the purpose of your investigation?
25 A I reviewed all of the reports submitted try
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1 all of the investigators that were at the scene. I spoke
2 with the Fire Marshal, I spoke with the Township and
3 State Fire Marshal both,
4 I read all of the depositions that were
5 given in the cases, And the purpose was to attempt to
6 determine where the fire started and perhaps why,
7 Q What of significance did you learn as a
8 result of your investigation? And if you would, there are
9 many photographs in front of you there, And please feel.
10 free to rely upon the physical evidence here as you
11 present your testimony.
12 A The point of origin for a fire is
13 determined by looking at and interpreting the burn
14 patterns and all of the physical evidence present at any
15 fire scene, The burn -- it is quite -- everybody -- it is
16 quite an ordeal to do this,
17 We determine -- we measure char, to see how
18 deep it is when we are at a fire scene. We look at
19 patterns.
20 Fire burns in gust a certain way, usually
21 all the time, When fire starts, the flame goes up and it
22 goes out. And it burns what we call a lead pattern, Nat
23 only does it do that, it impinges or destroys the wood ar
24 the furniture right where it starts,
25 Common sense tells you if the fire starts
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1 in one particular area,
2 it burned longer in the
3 did where it spread to,
4 significant and intense
5 where the fire starts,
and spreads to other areas, there
area that it started at than it
So we look for the area of moss:
burning, which would be the area
6 And there are a lot of variables that we
7 have to look at. We have to look at the furniture, how it
8 was constructed and what it was constructed of and how the
9 walls were made and what kind of a fire rating they have.
10 For instance, paneling would burn a lot
11 quicker than drywall or plaster. We look at all these
12 things and we try to put it back together, And in doing
13 so, we can come to an area most significantly burned where
14 the patterns tell us the fire originated and spread from
15 that point onward, And we can usually see how the fire
16 progresses
17 So this is what we did here, We took the
18 photographs, Because that is the only thing available to
19 me was the photographs, and up until recently the wiring,
20 that you saw over here on the table,
21 Using the photographs and the information
22 that I learned from the deposition testimony and from the
23 fire marshals who I spoke with concerning what they saw,
24 it was quite apparent and quite easy to see where this
25 fire started.
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1 Mr. Logue, who testified this morning,
2 stated that he woke up and there was a lot of heat in his
3 apartment and there was a lot of smoke in his apartment,
4 When he came out of the bedroom, he saw flame around on
5 the couch, which would have been against the wall where
6 the sliding glass door was.
7 Now, he got out of the apartment before
8 seeing too much more of the fire or its progression, until
9 they tried to put it out.
10 Now, the photographs that you have seen
11 that have passed by your way here during the course of the
12 day show some really significant burn patterns and real
13 significant indicators as to where the fire started in
14 this particular case,
15 You have heard about the cinder blocks that
16 were holding up this big tank full of water which is
17 against the wall, It was testified to this morning by Mr.
18 Utley that those cinder blocks were flush up against the
19 wall or up against the base board of the wall, that the
20 sliding glass door and the couch was against and that the
21 water tank was resting on those cinder blocks.
22 A photograph that is here shows precisely
23 that, And this is Plaintiff's Exhibit Number 4, It is
24 the one with the cinder blocks standing up. You can see
25 the holes in the cinder blocks and you can see that it is
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1 right against the wall. Sandwiched between the wall and
2 the cinder blocks is pictured in Exhibit Number 10,
3 Q This one? (Indicating)
4 A Is that 10?
5 Q Yes, sir.
6 A Okay, yes. Along receptacle that you
7 could put along a long receiving cord that you could put a
8 lot of cords into. I know that is sandwiched there
9 because we can look at the photograph and pick out various
10 points that say Exhibit Number 10 is sandwiched between
11 those cinder blocks and that wall with the plugs that went
12 up into the fish tank.
13 We can also determine that it is sandwiched
14 between the blocks because portions of number 10 -- may I
15 get down?
16 Q Sure, please, feel free.
17 A The things on number 10 that are still
18 attached to it tell me it was sandwiched between the wall
19 and the cinder blocks, with this green material --
20 MR. DUFFY: ObJection, Your Honor.
21 THE COURT; What is the obJection?
22 MR. DUFFY: I think we are now into the
23 area that we have discussed that as to what that green
24 material is and --
25 THE COURT; Well, we haven't reached that
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1 point yet.
2 MR. DUFFY:~ Okay.
3 THE WITNESS: This green material is a
4 portion that remains of the curtains that were on the
5 window, So that is telling me that because it is still
6 attached, it was against the wall with the bricks against
7 this and everything was sandwiched and rolled in there
8 pretty much,
9 What I did was, when I looked at these
10 things, these plugs are not in when I first got the
11 opportunity to look at all these wires.
12 So when you study all the wires and the
13 burn patterns, which is what I am studying now is burn
14 patterns, we have what is known as protected area to see
15 what is plugged into where. And if I remove this plug
16 here, from the bottom, when you have a duplex receptacle,
17 normally the new ones have two prongs with the ground
18 prong. So there is really three prongs for the plug to go
19 into it.
20 With this, this wire here, which goes to
21 number 10, it is plugged into the bottom one. It was only
22 a two pronged plug. But what happened was when the fire
23 burned --
24 MR. DUFFY: Same ob,Jection, Your Honor,
25 THE COURT: He is qualified to give point
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1 of origin. This is all for the Jury to determine what
2 weight his testimony has. And this is all a point of
3 origin.
4 THE WITNESS; When the fire burned, it
5 melted the portion of this plug into the third hole, Arid
6 if we remove this, you can see that it is nice and clean
7 around here, and this plug fits directly into there and
8 there is the little tip that melted into. So we know that
9 was definitely plugged in there,
10 The same goes for the top plug, which is
11 obviously the extension cord that goes to several other
12 power cords that powered various other things which we
13 will cover.
14 When we put that back in place, where these
15 cinder blocks were, and we then look at the burn patterns
16 around there, the burn patterns tell me that the fire
17 originated at that area where the cinder blocks sandwiched
18 the multiple extension cord.
19 Now, I will show you why I can say that,
20 The first picture, which is Exhibit Number 5, gives you
21 kind of a view of that whole wall with the cinder blocks
22 removed and the sofa removed, and you can see q part of
23 the door over here and that is the wall. (Indicating)
24 There is Just a little piece on this wall of a two by four
25 that is really clean, right where my finger is.
24
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1 (Indicating)
2 MR. DUFFY. May I ask what exhibit that is?
3 THE WITNESS; 5.
4 THE COURT: Plaintiff's 5,
5 THE WITNESS: Plaintiff's 5.
6 (Witness left stand to show picture to jury,)
7 THE WITNESS: When you look at that, it is
8 the only clean two by four in the whole room, or the only
9 unburned two by four, And Defense 2 --
10 MR, DUFFY; Objection, Your Honor.
11 THE COURT; What, sir?
12 MR. DUFFY; If plaintiff wants to introduce
13 that into his case, he can mark it or assume my exhibit
14 and put it in, But as of n ow, it is not really into
15 evidence,
16 THE COURT: That is correct,
17 MR. DUFFY: I have no objection to him
18 doing that, but I a m not op ening my case yet,
19 MR. LANG; I f you want to use another
20 photo --
21 THE COURT: All right, I understand.
22 THE WITNESS; Plaintiff 6 is a close view
23 of that two by four , Now, we are getting right in there
24 and you can see how clean i t is in just the one area, And
25 just above that clean area, right here now (Indicating),
25
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1 you can see how really charred that piece of two by four
2 is, When I am talking about charred, we are looking at
3 kind of like the alligator, you have the skin of an
4 alligator or charcoal, that is what is happening, When
5 the fire burned, it really burned the top part of that t:wo
6 by four, very, very -- a lot, from what we can see here.
7 (Witness resumes stand.)
8 What happened here was these cinder blocks,
9 which were directly against that wall, all right,
10 protected this from burning. It did not allow it to burn,
11 And it is called specifically a protected area,
12 And the reason it was protected was because
13 the cinder blocks were there up against it, the item was
14 sandwiched in there, And along with the curtains. So the
15 oxygen would not allow --
16 MR. DUFFY: ObJection, Your Honor. There
17 is no basis that says the curtains were in that area, The
18 testimony this morning was- that that was about a foot and
19 a half from that area, So he has to have evidence to be
20 able to say that the curta ins were in there.
21 THE COURT: Well --
22 MR, DUFFY: He Just can't start saving
23 where the curtains were.
24 THE COURT: Well, that is probably one of
25 the problems with a narrat ive type testimony, But, in any
26
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1 event, the jury has the idea that if he is testifying as
2 to point of origin, and giving his opinion as to where the
3 fire originated. Ultimately it is up to the jury to
4 decide though whether to accept or reject the testimony..
5 So --
6 MR. DUFFY: But it has to be based on facts
7 in evidence.
8 THE COURT: No, that is enough. I am going
9 to let him go and let's move ahead.
10 THE COURT: Can we have a question and get
11 back on track, cou nsel?
12 BY MR. LANG:
13 Q Mr. Kufta, you are continuing with the burn
14 patterns, and especially in the area of the duplex outlet
15 and the strip that is marked as Plaintiff's 10.
16 A I was talking about this prot ected area
17 again, And immediately above the protected area is the
18 really heavily charred wood, which tells me that the fire
19 started there, because the charred wood dire ctly above
20 where there is no burn is extremely signific ant. Because
21 it is the most heavily charred that I could see in any of
22 the photographs that I have observed.
23 It is the area that the Fire Marshal said
24 that he believed the fire to have started. It is in they
25 general area where Mr. Logue, who was asleep in the
27
•
1 apartment, said that he saw the fire originating.
2 The burn patterns are significant because
3 this two by four which is behind now this heavily burned
4 wood, is behind this -- and they say a 55 gallon fish tank
5 which too was resting on the blocks, which had to be
6 pretty close to the wall -- that too, if the fire started
7 anywhere else, this two by four should look like this ore
8 (Indicating) because it should have been a protected area
9 also,
10 So the burn patterns are very significant:
11 because they tell us -- they tell me that the fire
12 originated right near the top of the two by fours, at the
13 back of the two by fours, against the wall in the area
14 where Number 10 was between the block and the wall.
15 Q Mr. Kufta, for the next question I am going
16 to ask you to assume that certain facts are true and in
17 evidence. And then I am going to ask you for your expert
18 opinion based upon those assumed facts.
19 I want you to assume that Mr. Esposito's
20 apartment, a duplex electrical outlet was located on the
21 front wall to the left, in the left corner of the
22 apartment, into which the following items were plugged
23 either directly or through the use of a normal household
24 extension cord: a stereo receiver, into which was plugged
25 a turntable, and a tape deck; a fish tank pump, fish tank
28
•
1 heater, a fish tank light. Also in the left front corner
2 of the apartment, in addition to curtains and a sofa, was
3 located a 55 gallon fish tank, which was positioned atop
4 several concrete blocks and two, two by fours. And some
5 of the wires in the area that has been marked as
6 Plaintiff's Exhibit 10 were sandwiched between the wall
7 and the concrete blocks.
8 I want you also to assume that evidence of
9 electrical shorting was found on the wiring located
10 between the concrete blocks and the walling.
11 And, in addition, Mr, Logue was the only
12 person in the apartment during the evening before the fire
13 and Mr. Logue did not smoke in the apartment the evening
14 during the fire.
15 It is also assumed that no evidence of an
16 incendiary cause of the fire was found.
17 Now, Mr, Kufta, based upon this assumed set
18 of facts, along with your inspection of the physical
19 evidence, review of the photographs and evaluation of the
20 burn patterns, and your review of this case in its
21 entirety, do you have an opinion within a reasonable
22 degree of certainty in the field of fire cause and origin
23 investigation as to the cause and origin of the fire which
24 is the subJect of this case?
25 A Yes, I do.
29
• •
1 Q And what is your opinion?
2 A My opinion is the fire started in the area
3 of the cinder blocks. It was accidental in nature and the
4 heat source was an electrical energy.
5 Q Were other possible causes eliminated as
6 part of your investigation?
7 A Yes, Smoking was eliminated, Simply
8 because there were no indicators or patterns to
9 substantiate a smoking fire. Besides that, nobody was
10 smoking in th e apartment.
11 An incendiary fire was eliminated, It was
12 a slow, smold ering type fire. There was no indications of
13 incendiaries present. And other areas too were
14 eliminated. Spontaneous combustion, there was nothing to
15 spontaneously ignite that I came across that anybody
16 discussed. L ightning was not a factor.
17 MR. LANG: Okay, Thank you, Mr. Kufta.
18 That is all I have, Your Honor.
19
20 CROSS-EXAMINATION
21 BY MR. DUFFY:
22 Q Mr. Kufta, do you have your file with you?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Where is it?
25 A Here.
30
• •
1 Q You were hired in this case by an attorney
2 named Suzan ne Griest tphonetic spelling), isn't that
3 correct?
4 A Yes,
5 Q All these photographs that you have so
6 eloquently described to the jury, ~~~:~u never saw until a
7 couple days ago?
8 A These photographs?
9 Q Yes, sir,
10 A That is correct,
11 Q So your whole opinion that you have now
12 weaved toge ther is based on things that you never even saw
13 until a cou ple days ago, correct?
14 A Say that again, please?
15 Q Your opinion, anything that you have said
16 based on these photographs, you never even saw these until
17 a couple days ago?
18 A That is correct,
19 Q But you were able to render an opinion two
20 and a half years ago, before you saw anything, that this
21 fire was in that area?
22 A That is correct,
23 Q Now, when you did that, you hadn't even
24 bothered to ask to see any of this stuff?
25 A No, I didn't,
31
•
1 Q And you are telling me now -- this is a
Z surprise to all of us -- that you are the one that moved
3 around the d ifferent plugs in here to determine where they
4 went?
5 A I did that, yes,
6 Q And you didn't do that before you went
7 ahead and re ndered a report about what caused this fire?
8 A Well, may I see my report regarding what I
9 said that ca used this fire, please?
10 Q Well, sir, my question is, didn't you
11 render your report before you saw any of this stuff?
12 A I rendered a report, yes, sir,
13 Q Well, I don't have another report, I was
14 only supplie d one by counsel, Did you render more than
15 one report?
16 A No,
17 Q Okay. So let's get this square in front
18 and straight in front of the jury. You went in and
19 rendered an opinion before you saw any of this stuff that
20 you are now telling us is such important evidence?
21 A That is correct.
22 Q And you did that four and a half years
23 after the fi re?
24 A I believe I did that in 198 --
25 Q November of 1988, November 28th, you were
32
•
1 called by Miss Griest and you rendered a report?
2 A That is correct,
3 Q And that is four and a half years after 1:he
4 fire?
5 A Yes,
6 Q Okay, Now, let's talk about your
7 investigative procedure, You didn't have these
8 photographs?
9 A No, sir,
10 Q You didn't have the evidence?
11 A No, sir.
12 Q I have your report here, You don't make
13 reference to t he report of the electrical engineer, Mr.
14 Emory. Did yo u ask to review his report?
15 A His report wasn't available to me.
16 Q So the lawyer didn't give you the report of
17 the electrical engineer?
18 A That is correct,
19 Q Did you review Mr. Groh's report?
20 A At the time I did my report, Mr, Groh's
21 report was not available to me,
22 Q So you didn't review Mr, Groh's report?
23 A No.
24 Q Did you issue a supplemental report after
25 it became avai lable?
33
1 A No, sir.
2 Q Who is the other electrical engineer that:
3 looked at this? Mr. Grow, Mr. Emory. Oh, how about Mr,
4 Farley? Did you review Mr. Parley's report?
5 A I believe I did, yes, sir.
6 Q Is it -- you don't make any reference --
7 when did you review it?
8 A I don't recall.
9 Q Okay. If I told you Mr. Parley's rep ort
10 was issued after your report, certainly you couldn't have
11 reviewed it?
12 A Not before --
13 Q Did you ask to see it since then?
14 A I have seen it since then, yes.
15 Q Have you issued a supplemental report based
16 on that?
17 A No, I haven't.
18 Q In your report -- all you pretty much say
19 today is that the fire started in the area of the fi sh
20 tank, is that correct?
21 A That is pretty much what I said.
22 Q And you don't have any evidence from
23 anything you have developed that my client failed to abide
24 by some warni ng that was on this item that is marked
25 Exhibit 10?
34
• •
1 A I don't know if there was a warning on it,
2 Q And you have hypothesized that this
3 Yellowish green stuff is the draperies?
4 A Yes, I did.
5 Q You base that on what?
6 A I based it on the fact that it stuck to
7 that, okay, that it is in the general vicinity between the
8 cinder blocks and the wall, that it is attached, and
9 adJacent to the cinder blocks was a curtain.
10 Q If I told you that this was insulation from
11 inside this box, would you be surprised?
12 A I would be extremely surprised, sir.
13 Q If I told you that the drapes weren't thou
14 color and didn't look like that -- did you ask anybody
15 what color the drapes were or what the colors were?
16 A I have asked several people, but nobody
17 seems to recall.
18 Q In the depositions that you reviewed, and
19 can you show me anywhere in them where any witness said
20 where any other investigator said that material was
21 curtain material?
22 A No.
23 Q Now, let's get one thing straight here.
24 Because there was an opening statement about this
25 extension cord, where was this found?
35
• •
1 A I believe it was found on the floor near
2 the sofa.
3 0 And that is not what you say the area of
4 origin -- the point of origin is?
5 A No, I don't believe it to be, no, sir.
6 Q Mr. Kufta, how much are you being paid to
7 come here and testify?
8 A~ $60.00 an hour.
9 Q And how much were you paid to write your
10 report?
11 A I believe it was 55 then.
12 Q Did you believe you -- why didn't you ask.
13 to see this component -- or did you ask to see these
14 components before you rendered your report?
15 A I had photographs of them. I didn't know
16 where they were. And I don't know if they were available
17 at the time, Also, I was placed on a budget by the
18 attorney who hired me.
19 Q What photographs did you have? Because
20 there is none in your file here.
21 A Yes, there are. Trooper Klages gave me his
22 negatives and I had photographs made.
23 Q You remember reading -- oh, well, they are
24 not developed.
25 A No, they are on the other report,
36
• •
1 MR. DUFFY; Well, that wasn't supplied to
2 me.
3 BY MR. DUFFY;
4 Q These are copies of Klages' photographs?
5 A Yes, they are.
6 Q But they don't show any of these items iri
7 position?
8 A No, they gust show the items.
9 Q And you are aware that Trooper Klages
10 testified in his deposition that some of these items came
11 from the area where the fire was and some of them might
12 have came fro m debris elsewhere?
13 A Where in his deposition does he say that,
14 please? I am -- it has been awhile since I read that.
15 Q Would you disagree with me if I represent:
16 that to you?
17 A I can't disagree or agree.
18 Q Okay. Did you think it was fair -- and you
19 knew when you rendered your report you would be called t.o
20 testify at tr ial?
21 A No, I didn't know that.
22 Q Well, I see on your resume that you
23 attended litigation courses and whatnot.
24 A Yes, I have.
25 Q And You knew you were hired by an attorney,
37
• •
1 Miss Griest?
2 A Yes.
3 Q And you knew that she represented the
4 plaintiff?
5 A Yes.
6 Q And you knew that you would have to rendE~r
7 a report?
8 A Yes.
9 Q And you rendered a report without looking
10 at all this ev idence that was potentially harmful to my
11 client?
12 A I was asked to render a report --
13 Q Sir, did you render a report without
14 looking at all this?
15 A It wasn't available to me,
16 Q Did you ask Miss Griest, I am an
17 investigator, look, I want to see anything?
18 MR. LANG: That has been asked and
19 answered, Your Honor.
20 THE COURT: Pardon?
21 MR. LANG: It has been asked and answered,
22 THE COURT: Go ahead.
23 BY MR. DUFFY;
24 Q Did you ask her, I want to see all this?
25 A I tried to see everything I could. What
38
• •
1 was available to me, that is what I rendered a report ors.
2 Q You are not answering my questions, Did
3 you ask Mr. Seifert's attorney, I want to see all the
4 evidence?
5 A She didn't have any.
6 Q You still haven't answered the question.
7 A Well, certainly I asked. I want to see :it
8 all.
9 Q Did you ask, can I see all the photographs?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And were you provided with any of that
12 material?
13 A No.
14 Q So, in fairness, you kind of staked out
15 your position in November of 1988, and now you have come
16 here today and you are piecing together everything to
17 support it?
18 A I rendered an opinion in 1988 based on the
19 information that was available to me, I could render an
20 opinion now with more certainty, now that I have got all
21 the informa tion in front of me.
22 MR. DUFFY: I have no further questions,
23 Your Honor.
24 THE COURT: Anything else?
25 MR. LANG: Yes, Your Honor.
39
• •
1
2 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
3 BY MR. LANG;
4 Q Mr. Duffy cleared up one point. But Just
5 to clarify for the Jury, other than the photographs that
6 are here, did you have photographs available to you at the
7 time you draft ed your report?
8 A Yes, I did.
9 Q And, again, whose photographs were they?
10 A They were the State Police Fire Marshal's.
11 Q Mr. Kufta, is it normal in your business to
12 be paid for your time to testify and to prepare an expert
13 report in a case?
14 A That is what I do for a living, yes, sir.
15 MR. LANG; That is all I have, Your Honor.
16 MR. DUFFY; Your Honor, one or two
17 follow-ups?
18 THE COURT; All right.
19
20 RECROSS-EXAMINATION
21 BY MR. DUFFY;
22 Q Let's be fair, okay. We are talking about
23 photo evidence.
24 Show me in there, Trooper Klages' photos
25 that depict anything like, like we are looking at in these
40
• •
1 photographs?
2 A There are none in this report.
3 Q There are none.
4 A No.
5 Q So you didn't see any photographs of the
6 stuff we are talking about here before a couple days ago?
7 A How about the stuff we are looking at
8 there? We di d --
9 Q You saw photographs of these?
10 A Yes, sir.
11 Q You didn't see photographs of the burn
12 patterns that you have talked about. They are not in
13 there?
14 A No.
15 Q You didn't see photographs of the alleged
16 drapes, then are not in there?
17 A Portions of them are.
18 Q Onlv in that they are on this material?
19 A Yes.
20 Q You didn't see anything in place and you
21 certainly didn't see a photograph that looks like P-4
22 before you came here today?
23 A That is correct, I did not. Well, excuse
24 me, yes, I did. Before I came in here today, yes, I have
25 seen those.
41
•
1 Q Before the last few weeks when You were
2 preparing fo r trial?
3 A Before the last few weeks, no.
4 Q And You would agree that it would be a
5 little tough for you to change your opinion now that You
6 learned all of the facts?
7 A Change my opinion about what?
8 MR. DUFFY. I have no further questions,
9 MR. LANG: Your Honor, I think there was a
10 question, I think Mr. Kufta asked for clarification, I
11 think he is entitled to it.
12 THE COURT: That question was more in the
13 nature of an argument than anything else. Okay. Do you
14 want to let Mr, Kufta go?
15 MR. LANG: Yes.
16 MR. DUFFY: That is fine, Your Honor,
17 THE COURT; Okay. Thank you, sir. You may
18 be excused.
19 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
20 (Whereupon, the testimony of the witness
21 was concluded.)
22
23
24
25
42
i ~
CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the proceedings are contained
fully and accurately in the notes taken by me on the above cause
and that this is a correct transcript of same.
~~
I~~fl
Mari T. Farley
Official Reporter
The foregoing record of the proceedings upon the above
cause is hereby approved and directed to be filed.
~i [0 ~'
1990
E ffer J.
BRYAN K. SEIFERT,
Plaintiff
V.
CYNWYD INVESTMENTS t/s MANOR
APARTMENTS and THOMAS
ESPOSITO and BRIAN LOGUE
Defendant
a
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
; CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
; N0. 975 CIVIL 1986
CIVIL ACTION - LAW
IN TRESPASS
TN RE' TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM D. GROW
Partial proceedings held before the Honorable
GEORGE E. HOPPER, J., Cumberland County Courthouse,
Carlisle, Pennsylvania, on Tuesday, June 26, 1990,
in Courtroom Number Three.
APPEARANCES;
~___
THOMAS A. LANG, Esquire ~-=
For the Plaintiff ~--_
THOMAS J. DUFFY, Esquire ~~_
For the Defendant
~_ __.
C:.. _+
William D. Grow
(Qualifications)
By Mr. Lang
By Mr, Duffy
By Mr. Lang
By Mr. Duffy
•
•
3
10
17 51
32
2
52
•
1 June 26, 1990
2 Carlisle, Pennsylvania
3
4 Whereupon,
5 WILLIAM DAVID GROW
6 having been duly sworn, testified as follows;
7 DIRECT EXAMINATION
8
9 BY MR. LANG;
10 Q Sir, would You please state your name and
11 address?
12 A My name is William David Grow, G-r-o-w.
13 Q Mr. Grow, have you had an opportunity to
14 conduct an inv estigation and arrive at an opinion
15 regarding the electrical cause of a fire that is the
16 subject of the case?
17 A Yes, I have.
18 Q Let's first discuss your qualifications
19 before we discuss your opinions.
20 When did you graduate from high school?
21 A 1954.
22 Q And which school was that?
23 A Bristol High School in Bristol,
24 Pennsylvania.
25 Q Following your graduation from high school,
3
1 what did you do?
2 A I served three years in the Marine Corps.
3 Q Following that Marine Corps training, how
4 were you employed?
5 A My employment began as an electrical
6 apprentice with the International Brotherhood of
7 Electrical Workers in Trenton, New Jersey.
8 Q What did that involve? What did your
9 responsibilities include?
10 A It was a five year training periad, which
11 was on the yob during the day, school two nights a week,
12 from September to June. And during that time, we were
13 taught the basic concepts of electricity, proper
14 installation of electrical systems and compliance with the
15 National Electrical Code.
16 Q Please continue with your explanation of
17 your employment history from that point on.
18 A Upon becoming -- excuse my voice, I
19 apologize -- I wonder if I could get a glass of water,
20 sir.
21 THE COURT; Yes. Counsel?
22 THE WITNESS; Following my initial training
23 as an apprentice, I became a ,journeyman, which is another
24 name for an electrician. I worked at the trade doing that
25 for 23 years. In that 23 year period, I became a foreman,
4
~ ~
1 assistant general foreman, and finally a general foreman.
2 The type of work that I participated in
3 would be everything from residential, commercial,
4 industrial, to a nuclear power plant in southern New
5 Jersey that was being constructed. That was the last fob
6 I worked on as a tradesman.
7 I then became involved with an electrical
8 engineer who provided services as a consultant and
9 investigator investigating fires of an electrical origin.
10 Together we worked for about a year and a half. In a
11 sense it was another training process where you were
12 learning what the devastating aspects of electricity can
13 be when it fails.
14 I worked with this gentleman, and then he
15 became ill and subsequently passed away. But I remained
16 in the business, starting my own business, which was
17 William D. Grow and Associates. Presently I have two
18 electrical engineers and a technician who work with me on
19 assignments. And I have been doing this for tern years
20 now.
21 The area of work basically is responding to
22 clients requests to visit scenes where fires have
23 occurred, inspect the fire scene and the equipment and/or
24 the electrical systems that is incorporated in the
25 equipment or building to make a determination, if
5
1 possible, that it failed in some aspect and was
2 responsible for the fire.
3 Q Your resume also indicates that you are a
4 member of an examining board. What did that involve?
5 A Yes. When I was active in the electrical
6 trade, I was a member of the examining board, which was
7 the board that interviewed and tested applicants for
8 membership. And then subsequently tested at the
9 termination of their training for acceptance as a
10 journeyman.
11 Q And continuing after that, it indicates you
12 were a chief electrical inspector. What did that involve?
13 A That was sort of the format to becoming
14 involved in the electrical investigation field. I was
15 given an assignment, which was to last for approximately
16 six months, as an electrical inspector for a municipality
17 on the outskirts of Philadelphia. It happens to be the
18 same township that I live in.
19 And during that time frame that I was
20 functioning as their electrical inspector sort of
21 introduced me into the field that I am in now. The
22 electrical inspector's responsibility at that time was to
23 inspect all new construction, residential, commercial,
24 industrial, as well as assist the chief of fire prevention
25 with fire investigations that occurred just within that
6
• •
1 township.
2 Q Sir, in your capacity as an independent
3 fire investigator and with William Grow Associates,
4 approximately how many fires have you investigated?
5 A I believe the count is about 800 presently.
6 Q Of those 800, approximately how many were
7 electrical in origin?
8 A Well, each was thought to be involved in it
9 or reviewed Just to eliminate the electrical in some
10 cases. But on a percentage basis, it is common with what
11 the books allude to, electrical fires are responsible for
12 about a third of the incidences that are reported.
13 Q Sir, do you have any specialized training
14 in the field of fire investigation?
15 A Yes. I have attended classes and schooling
16 on it. And, of course, I have worked on it on a
17 day-to-day basis. And in most cases, we work as teams in
18 which myself, who has the electrical responsibility, works
19 with individuals such as the gentleman that was here
20 yesterday, Mr. Kufta.
21 There are many -- I should say numerous --
22 people similar to Mr. Kufta who perform that service as
23 cause and origin investigators. They have a background in
24 knowledge of fire --
25 MR. DUFFY; ObJection, Your Honor,
7
• •
1 THE COURT; Well, you are getting off the
2 subJect here.
3 BY MR. LANG:
4 Q Would you please discuss the specialized
5 training that you have had?
6 A Yes. My training, of course, was related
7 to the fire and electrical. And would you like me to list
8 them all?
9 Q Just a few. You don't have to go through
10 your whole list.
11 A I attended training seminars at the
12 University of Wisconsin, San Francisco, Georgia Tech, I
13 recall.
14 Q What type of seminars are these?
15 A These were electrical fire seminars that
16 were set up for investigators, plant personnel, to
17 demonstrate and explain in detail the various aspects of
18 how electrical fires can develop.
19 I attended the National Fire Academy in
20 Emmitsburg, Maryland, which has a three week fire and
21 arson training course, of which electrical is a rather
22 small part of. That was in '83.
23 And then graduating from the National Fire
24 Academy, I was given the opportunity to become an
25 instructor down there. And for two and a half years, I
8
• .
1 believe it was, I served as an instructor one day a week,
2 when the new classes would come in, explaining electrical
3 fires to the students which were fire marshals from
4 throughout the United States and some foreign countries.
5 Q In addition to that position, have you held
6 any other positions as an instructor?
7 A I was an instructor at the Bucks County
8 Tech School in my neighborhood of quite a few years ago
9 for a course set up for fire investigators, fire marshals,
10 et cetera.
11 I am a member of the Pennsylvania and
12 International Association of Arson Investigators. I
13 served on the Board of Directors of the Pennsylvania
14 Chapter of the Arson Investigators Association. And I
15 have given seminars for the various districts throughout
16 the state of that organization.
17 Q Sir, have you ever been qualified in_the
18 past in a courtroom as an expert in the field of
19 electrical fire investigation?
20 A Yes.
21 MR. LANG; Your Honor, I would like to
22 offer Mr, Grow as an expert in the field of electrical
23 fire investigation and competent to render an opinion
24 regarding whether the fire in this case was electrical in
25 origin.
9
• •
1 MR. DUFFY. I have a couple questions, Your
2 Honor.
3 THE COURT: Go ahead.
4
5 CROSS-EXAMINATION
6 (as to qualifications)
7 BY MR. DUFFY:
8 Q Mr. Grow, we have crossed paths before,
9 haven't we?
10 A Yes, sir.
11 Q You were an electrician for about 23 years
12 or so?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And that is what you were, and your job was
15 to install ci rcuits in peoples houses and direct men how
16 to install th ings in peoples houses, and that is -:~t you
17 did. And in commercial settings.
18 A That is correct.
19 Q Okay. And the nuclear reactor, whatever
20 you worked on , in South Jersey, you didn't design it or
21 plan it or ha ve anything to do with that?
22 A No.
23 Q You were there to tell the men take these
24 wires and go hook them up over there or whatever?
25 A Yes.
10
• •
1 Q And you didn"t go to a four year course --
2 I mean you took some courses -- we will get into that --
3 after you got into this business, but you didn't go and
4 get a college degree in electrical engineering, you didn't
5 get a college degree in metallurgy; you didn't go through
6 four years of school in anything like that, did you?
7 A No.
8 Q And then what you did is, in your local
9 township as an electrician, the Board of the County,
10 Bensalem Towns hip, wasn't it?
11 A Yes, sir.
12 Q And Bensalem Township, because you knew a
13 couple people on the board, they made you the local
14 electrical ins pector?
15 A Temporarily, yes.
16 Q And that meant when people came with their
17 permits, if it said a four panel box, you had to go and
18 make sure they had four circuit breakers or whatever?
19 A I would agree, yes.
20 Q And that takes you up to about 1979 or
21 1980?
22 A Yes.
23 Q So up until that time, other than being an
24 electrician and working as an electrician, you had no
25 experience in fire investigation, you weren't a fireman
11
•
1 for any township, maybe volunteer, but not a professional
2 fireman or anything like that?
3 A No, I wasn't even a fireman.
4 Q And then you met a fellow named Albert
5 Myers, didn't you?
6 A Yes.
7 Q And Mr. Myers had a degree in Engineering?
8 A That is correct.
9 Q And, in fact, on your resume -- there is a
10 Copy of it her e -- it even says P. E., he was a
11 professional e ngineer?
12 A Yes, sir.
13 Q And you crossed paths with him because you
14 both lived in Bensalem Township?
15 A No, sir, that is not true.
16 Q He lived up that way somewhere?
17 A He was in Bensalem on fire business when we
18 met. He lived in Jenkintown.
19 Q He hired you as an assistant to work for
20 him?
21 A Yes.
22 Q You went around sort of helping him out
23 because he was an elderly fellow, you helped him carry
24 debris and stuff like that?
25 A It sounds very simplistic, but I will
12
•
1 agree, yes.
2 Q That is what you did?
3 A Yes.
4 Q And he got sick and he passed away, and you
5 decided you were going to take over the business and now
6 you were goi ng to become an electrical fire expert?
7 A Yes.
$ Q And you took over his business and, in
9 fact, I see your letterhead, he designed a logo which was
10 the triangle of a fire. You even took over his logo.
11 A That is inaccurate, sir. I designed the
12 logo and he copied mine.
13 Q Okay. But, whatever, now you are an
14 electrical e xpert?
15 A I hope so.
16 Q Okay. And you go around and you charge
17 people money to go to court and you render opinions about
18 how fires start?
19 A It is my only source of income, sir.
20 Q Is that what you do?
21 A Yes.
22 Q But you testified that you have electrical
23 engineers that work with you?
24 A I have two associates which are electrical
25 engineers, yes.
13
• •
1 Q And they have degrees?
2 A Yes,
3 Q And they have four year programs, or if
4 they have master degrees, maybe six year progrars in
5 electricity and whatnot?
6 A I believe they are four year programs, but
7 I am not sure,
8 Q Tell the jury about all the courses where
9 you took where you did microscopic studies on wires to
10 tell what caused them to short circuit or what didn't
11 cause them to short circuit?
12 A Well, when you refer to microscopic --
13 Q I meant you went to laboratories, right,
14 and you have learned how to test metal and what caused the
15 short, Have you ever done anything like that?
16 A We have had it done, I, myself, have not
17 gone to the laboratory and performed the tests,
18 Q That is because you are not qualified to
19 perform tests like that?
20 A Yes, There are people that we can retain
21 to do that who do a very good job.
22 Q So you don't feel you are qualified to do
23 that?
24 A To test metals?
25 Q Yes.
14
1 A No, sir.
2 Q And you would agree to be able to determine
3 what caused a short, it would have to bead or maybe there
4 is trenching or something, and the normal way to do that
5 would be to send it to a laboratory and have it tested?
6 A Not in all cases. It is quite common to be
7 able to determine if electrical circuits have failed and
8 why they failed and substantiate that failure by evidence
9 surrounding the loss. It is merely a case of
10 investigation and coming to conclusions.
11 Q Let me back up though gust so we can
12 conclude here. You were an electrician who got hooked up
13 with Mr, Myers and now you are an electrical expert.
14 A I have a lot of experience, and I have been
15 qualified as an expert, yes.
16 Q Do you have any experience designing the
17 transformers that go with fish tanks?
18 A I understand exactly how they work. I have
19 not designed any.
20 Q How about this -- and I read in your
21 report -- you call it this multi-tap outlet. Did you ever
22 have any experience designing them?
23 A I have no experience designing. But I have
24 had experience in prior fires in which they were involved.
25 MR. DUFFY; May I see Your Honor at side
15
1 bar?
2 THE COURT; All right.
3 (Whereupon, the following discussion
4 was held at side bar,)
5 MR. DUFFY; Your Honor, I am not sure what
6 plaintiff's counsel has offered this man as an expert in.
7 He said that he is an expert that he can determine fires
8 of electrica l origin. But I don't think he can testify
9 much beyond that, what particular thing electrical caused
10 it. I mean he hasn't -- he is an electrician.
11 MR. LANG; I offered him as an expert in
12 the field of electrical fire investigations and competent
13 to render an opinion as to whether this fire started from
14 an electrica l source. He has had years of experience, It
15 doesn't have to just be a four year degree in Electrical
16 Engineering.
17 MR. DUFFY: But he can't say which
18 particular electrical source --
19 MR. LANG; He sure can. He has years of
20 experience. It is not just based on a four year degree,
21 Tom,
22 MR. DUFFY: I object.
23 THE COURT; All right, Your objection is
24 noted, but we will allow him to testify.
25 MR. DUFFY; Thank you, Your Honor. .
16
• •
1 (End of side bar conference.)
2
3 DIRECT EXAMINATION
4 BY MR, LANG:
5 Q Mr, Grow, would you explain for the jury
6 some of the basic principles of electricity as they relate
7 to this case?
8 A As the fire was reported, and all parties
9 have agreed, it began in the area designated as the living
10 room. The living room contains electrical wiring
11 obviously, just as your homes would,
12 The circuit is a dedicated circuit,
13 designed to Supply duplex outlets, concealed in the wall,
14 recessed in the wall and operate at 120 volts, The
15 voltage is a constant factor and remains the same for the
16 most part, for the basic explanation of how electrical
17 circuits work.
18 And for those that somehow get confused
19 with an explanation of electrical wiring, it is very easy
20 to constantly go back and relate the electrical circuit to
21 the garden hose in your back yard.
22 When you connect the garden hose to the
23 spigot and turn on the water, the water gushes into the
24 hose and charges the line, so to speak, with water
25 pressures, That water pressure is voltage, And the
17
• •
1 voltage in this par~cular loss, as I said, was 120 volts,
2 which is a common voltage for this type use.
3 Nothing happens with the hose until you
4 open the spigot and allow water to come out. Just as with
5 the electrical circuit, nothing happens with that until
6 you connect a load across the circuit and the electrons
7 that are part of the electrical makeup begin to flow,
8 Then the electrical potential must overcome
9 some form of resistance. And this is the key word, the
10 resistance, is something that it is invited in most cases.
11 It a light bulb resistance, and it is intended to glow
12 when the wire across the filament gets so hot that the
13 metal becomes exceptionally high and glows. The ballast
14 of a transformer, the motor in a motor-operated device,
15 all these serve as resistance to the flow of electrons and
16 thus are working.
17 However, the same concept becomes a
18 dangerous concept in electrical systems, as simple as 120
19 volt circuit, when resistance of -- not designed
20 resistance is placed in the line. And that could be as
21 simple as the connection of a cord cap to a receptacle.
22 If a poor connection were made, then the electricity in
23 attempting to do its purpose bridges this poor gapping
24 area and serves its purpose, but in doing so, creates
25 localized contact heating.
18
• •
1 We have evidence to show in this case that
2 this occurred on some devices. And we also have to
3 consider at the same time that the current that flows in
4 the wires to overcome the resistance of the motors and
5 lights, et cetera, must be maintained and confined within
6 insulated wires.
7 And as long as they are maintained and
8 confined in that manner, the electrical system functions
9 fine. Which, in most cases, we all, for the most part,
10 don't suffer electrical faults in our homes every day
11 because the insulation factor is such that it ire-mains the
12 electrical pressure. But it has been known to fail in
13 many cases and develop into heating.
14 Another factor that fits right into that
15 explanation is when the current is flawing in a conductor,
16 or a wire, it develops a feel -- an invisible feel which
17 circles the conductor. And when cords are wrapped
18 together, and quite often -- to sort of side step, when
19 you by a new appliance, you find the cords all wrapped up
20 tightly for shipping. And if you read the instructions
21 they tell you to unwrap that and expose the cord --
22 MR. DUFFY: Objection, Your Honor,
23 THE COURT: What is the obJection?
24 MR. DUFFY; I don't see where there is any
25 evidence that this involves a cord being wrapped up and
19
• •
1 what the warnings are and things,
2 THE COURT; Well, there isn't at this
3 point, And I agree, you are getting Just a little outside
4 here, sir, Anyway, go ahead.
5 THE WITNESS; The purpose of having the
6 cords exposed to the -- other than wrapped up, to
7 dissipate the heat that builds up on the conductor
8 service. So consequently when cords are wrapped up
9 tightly, and the electrical current flows in even modest
10 amounts of electrical current, heating can develop,
11 Therefore, it is important that the
12 electrical system be installed in such a manner that the
13 surface contacts are tight, that the insulated surfaces
14 are exposed to the ambient temperatures, so as to
15 dissipate heat,
16 And this brings up as an example cords
17 under carpets. It is a common problem with people, they
18 hide the cord, thus they cause the heating to take place
19 in areas where combustible materials are present.
20 In this particular loss, when I
21 participated in the investigation, it was learned that
22 there was a convenience outlet available directly behind a
23 fish tank, This outlet served 120 volts that I was
24 discussing, which was the necessary voltage for the
25 connected loads.
20
1 The cords that are --
2 BY MR. LANG:
3 Q If I could stop you, Mr. Grow. I want to
4 show you what has been marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit 4.
5 Could you indicate on that photograph for the jury the
6 outlet that you are referring to at this point, the
7 convenience outlet? Or in one of these exhibits.
8 A Well, Plaintiff's Exhibit 4 shows the side
9 view of the cinder blocks or masonry blocks that were used
10 to support the aquarium. It shows the wall outlet still
11 in the wall. And it depicts the wiring that was attached
12 to the outlet between the blocks and the wall surface.
13 It is the wiring that this photograph shows
14 between the block and the wall surface is what I am
15 referring to by bu ndled or coiled wire, be ing obviously an
16 attempt to conceal it. So that --
17 MR. DUFFY: Objection, Your Honor.
18 THE COURT: Well. sir. vnu went t~ ho
19 careful in drawing conclusions. The jury is going to see
20 the same p icture that you are seeing and they can draw
21 ±heir own conclusions. But anyway, go ahead,
22 THE WITNESS: An explanation for the
23 abundance of wiring that is seen in this photograph,
24 Exhibit 4, is the fact that manufacturers of any
25 electrical device provide a six foot power cord to the
21
•
1 unit, The reason for this is the National Electrical Code
2 supports this by saying that all wall surfaces require an
3 electrical outlet every 12 feet.
4 Therefore, in any location that you go with
5 a six foot cord, you are able to find an outlet. And
6 this, of course, is to discourage or prevent the use of
7 extension cords having to travel throughout a living area
8 to obtain electrical power. Which was quite cornmon in the
9 older homes.
10 So if we have four or five electrical
11 devices required to serve the purpose, such as an
12 aquarium, to function properly, then we are going to have
13 four or five, six foot power cords that have to be
14 attached to an outlet. And the power cord surplus is
15 either left on the floor or it is coiled and bundled and
16 concealed in whatever manner to make the home appear more
17 habitable.
18 BY MR. LANG;
19 Q Sir, what is your understanding of the
20 different wiring that was located in the front left corner
21 of the apartment building?
22 A I am not sure I un derstand your question,
23 Q From the different appliances, which
24 different appliances were located in the front left corner
25 of the apartment, as far as you know from your
22
• •
1 investigation and the depositions that you have read?
2 A Well, the written information that was
3 provided indicated that there was a pump, a heater for
4 maintaining water temperature for the aquarium, there was
5 a light. I think I have forgotten something, There was a
6 few other items. There was a clock, I believe. All the
7 the various items would -- oh, and a air pump, obviously
8 to inject the oxygen into the water.
9 Each of these would have a power cord that
10 would have to attach to an electrical outlet in order for
11 the aquarium to function.
12 Q Sir, could you please step down, and I want
13 you to take a look at the evidence that is in the box
14 here. I want you to indicate for the fury which is the
15 convenience extension device that you have been referring
16 to, if you could?
17 A {Witness leaves stand.) What?
18 Q The convenience extension device.
19 A What I have here in my left hand would be
20 the convenience strip.
21 Q What is the number on that?
22 A The item is Number 10. The upper end, it
23 is approximately three inches long, are two exposed metal
24 surfaces. These are copper material and together, when
25 electrical potential is applied, we have 120 volts across
23
•
1 these plates, Prior to the damage inflicted, they were
2 straight and they were flat and they were insulated in a
3 strip, which on the lower end here, where my other hand
4 is, you can see the charred remains of the insulated
5 material is still there.
6 So it would be fair to say that if the
7 strip in total, which is about ten inches long, shows that
8 one end has lost all its insulation value and the other
9 end has maintained it to some degree, what is considered
10 is that this was in an even uniform fire environment. So
11 this enters the possibility that one end of the strip was
12 sub.lected to either more fire -- in fact, let me
13 explain -- or higher temperature.
14 If you consider the fact that when the
15 strip is physically together and when deciding to insert
16 two, three or four cord caps, if any of the cord caps are
17 of a thicker surface on the electrode that protrudes in to
18 make contact, the expansion on this strip is such that
19 another one may be making poor contact. It is one of the
20 reasons this strip i$ extremely dangerous.
21 If you compare this strip to the type you
22 see in office supp lies --
23 MR. DUFFY. ObJection, Your Honor.
24 THE COURT: What is that?
25 MR. DUFFY; This is well beyond the scope
24
•
1 of anything he talked about in his report.
2 MR. LANG; Your° Honor, he is Just
3 describing a piece of evidence, He is not rendering an_.~
4 opinions.
5 THE COURT; Well, I don't know why we have
6 to get into comparison of something else that isn't in
7 court.
8 BY MR. LANG;
9 Q Sir, let me ask you a question about
10 Exhibit 10, which you have in your hand, Did you have an
11 opportunity to take a look at that exhibit prior to today?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Did you find any evidence of electrical
14 activity on the wires attached to that exhibit?
15 A Yes.
16 Q And what is that?
17 A Melting of copper conductors.
18 Q Can you explain the significance of that,
19 if any?
20 A When a copper conductor melts, it is an
21 accepted fact that the temperature is 1,981 degrees
22 Fahrenheit. If such a temperature exceeds the temperature
23 of the fire in the structure, which in this particular
24 case, the low elevation, about in excess of 1,000 degrees,
25 probably 1200 degrees.
25
•
1 So to me, to have evidence of melted
2 copper, it is an accepted fact that the insulation failed
3 at a time when the electrical potential was on the line
4 and the conductors came together and developed the arc
5 which melted the copper.
6 THE COURT: Okay. Could I get you back on
7 the stand, sir?
8 MR. LANG: Okay.
9 tWitness resumes the stand.)
10 BY MR. LANG:
11 Q Could you explain that in more detail and
12 why there may be evidence or why there is evidence of an
13 electrical arc, I believe you called it, on that wire that
14 is plugged into Exhibit 10? What could cause such an
15 electrical arc?
16 A Well, the arc is developed --
17 MR. DUFFY; I am going to obJect. I don't
18 think it is proper to say what could cause such an arc. I
19 think he has to render an opinion within a reasonable
20 degree of scientific certainty that this was the cause.
21 THE COURT: Well, that is the way to
22 ultimately state it, I agree with that. Could we get back
23 to good questions to him, sir? Maybe that will eliminate
24 the problem.
25 MR. LANG; My question is to have him
26
1 explain what causes such a bead or an arc on a piece of
2 electrical wiring. I am not asking him in this case what
3 caused it. I am asking him as an electrical expert, what
4 causes such a phenomenon.
5 THE COURT; Oh, in a general fashion,
6 MR. LANG: That is right.
7 THE COURT: Oh, okay. Go ahead, sir.
8 THE WITNESS: The cause for the failure
9 that we have been describing when a particular conductor
10 would be, simply stated, is that the insulation that once
11 existed between -- I used my two fingers as an example --
12 the insulation that existed that was designed to keep the
13 conductors apart for some reason diminished or failed and
14 allowed the conductors to begin to come together.
15 I use the word begin because there is a
16 very important concept here. If we bring the conductors
17 together immediately, the 120 volt potential has no
18 resistance. It touches each other. So therefore we have
19 unlimited current and we have a massive arcing and
20 destruction of the two conductors because they touched
21 each other.
22 It is exactly as when a welder welds. When
23 the electrode touches metal and it is grounded, the
24 circuit is completed and we melt the metal purposely.
25 However, when the insulation is diminishing because
27
•
1 possibly these conductors have been subjected to long term
2 heating, then there is early stages in which the
3 electrical cur rent would bridge the insulation because it
4 is no longer a good insulator. It is an insulator that is
5 in a state of failure.
6 When the electrical current can leap
7 through this insulation, they now set up a similar
8 situation to having another load placed across the line,
9 And localized heating develops there to the point that the
10 insulation finally fails. The conductors come together.
11 The arc temperature, approximately 2000 degrees,, is
12 developed and the wires melt. And hopefully the circuit
13 breaker opens at that time.
14 Q Sir, when Trooper Klages testified, he
15 testified that he found evidence of a short on that wire.
16 Can you explain what a short is?
17 A That is precisely what I was just
18 explaining except it is at the stage in which the
19 conductors finally make contact or enough contact for the
20 electrical circuit to bridge from one conductor to the
21 other and the arc occurs. That is a short.
22 Q Sir, for the next question, I am going to
23 ask you to assume that certain facts are true. And then I
24 am going to ask you to offer your expert opinion based on
25 those assumed set of facts.
28
• .
1 I want you to assume that in Mr, Esposito's
2 apartment, a duplex electrical outlet was located on the
3 front wall of the left corner of the apartment, into which
4 the following items were plugged, either directly or
5 through the use of a normal household extension cord, a
6 stereo turntable and tape deck, which were plugged into a
7 receiver, which was then plugged into an extension cord;
8 fish tank pump, fishing tank heater and a fishing tank
9 light; also on the left front corner of the apartment in
10 addition to curtains and a couch was located a 55 gallon
11 fish tank which was positioned across several concrete
12 blocks and two, two by fours, and some of the wires in
13 that area were sandwiched between the wall and the
14 concrete blocks.
15 I want you also to assume that evidence of
16 electrical shorting was found on the wiring located
17 between the concrete blocks and the wall, And in
18 addition, Mr, Logue was the only person in the apartment
19 during the evening before the fire and Mr, Logue did not
20 smoke in the apartment that evening,
21 It is also assumed that no evidence of an
22 incendiary cause was found for the fire.
23 Now, sir, based upon this assumed set of
24 facts, along with your inspection of the physical evidence
25 and review of the photographs, and your review of this
29
•
1 case in general, do you have an opinion within a
2 reasonable degree of certainty in the field of electrical
3 fire investigation as to the cause and origin of the fire
4 which is the subject of this case?
5 A Yes, I do.
6 Q And what is that opinion?
7 A All the ingredients are there for an
8 electrical system to be physically abused by --
9 MR. DUFFY: Objection, Your Honor. That is
10 not responsive to the question. He asked him if he had an
11 opinion.
12 THE COURT: Okay.
13 BY MR. LANG:
14 Q Sir, first just state what your opinion is
15 as to the cause and origin of the fire?
16 A It is my opinion that the fire caused was
17 failure of electrical insulating material.
18 Q What is the basis for that opinion, sir?
19 A The insulating material that consisted of
20 the wiring put together to have a functioning aquarium was
21 installed in a permanent manner. The use of cords to
22 supply the power is not encouraged by the National
23 Electrical Code because of the fact that it is a hazard.
24 Cords are to be used in a temporary fashion for portable
25 equipment, The type of equipment utilized to do this
30
•
1 further invites failure in the manner in which it was
2 utilized.
3 Q What do you mean by that?
4 A The strip which served to Supply the power
5 to the numerous cord caps relies entirely on surface
6 contact to maintain the normal flow of currents. If this
7 surface contact is aggravated in any way by other obJects,
8 localized heating can take place, which is the result of
9 voltage drop in current resistance.
10 O Sir, can you explain how the electrical
11 shorting or the arcing caused the fire?
12 A Accepting the fact that any one cord was
13 energized with 120 volt potential on it, we are merely
14 talking about a temperature of 300 degrees Fahrenheit
15 required to soften and further destroy the insulation
16 material, when it is PVC.
17 Once it fails, we have the opportunity now
18 to dissipate the molten copper, which went somewhere. It
19 may well have landed in the surface in which the heat is
20 incubated for enough time to cause ignition.
21 But the more probable cause explanation
22 here in this, in my opinion, is the heating is developing
23 as a result of the, again, surface contact and it is
24 constant, and the insulating material that is subjected to
25 this heating is what ultimately ignites. And that as a
31
•
1 result of that, the electrical cord with the molten copper
2 probably was a victim of this fire originating,
3 Q Was there any furniture or anything in that
4 area that could have served as a heat source once the
5 electrical short caused the build up of heat?
6 A I would use the word as a fueler rather
7 than a heat source. But the sofa could be a perfect
8 example of an immediate fuel lead as well as the curtains
9 and carpeting.
10 MR. LANG; That is all I have, Your Honor.
11 MR. DUFFY; May I cross-examine, Your
12 Honor?
13 THE COURT; Yes.
14
15 CROSS-EXAMINATION
16 BY MR. DUFFY;
17 Q Do you have your file with you?
18 A I have my report, and other reports.
19 Q Do you have your file?
20 A MY file?
21 Q Yeah.
22 A No.
23 Q You came here to court, you didn't bring
24 your file of the documents that you reviewed in this case?
25 A Oh, yes, I have those here, sir. I am
32
1 sorry,
2 Q Oh, you do have them?
3 A I have other records, that is what I said.
4 That is all I have in --
5 Q Is this your whole file?
6 A No, That is from a prior investigation.
7 My file on this particular loss hasn't been established
8 Yet,
9 Q Sir, in your office that You took over from
10 Mr, Myers, when cases come in, don't you open a file on
11 them?
12 A On new files, yes,
13 Q Do you have your file for this case here?
14 A I have the file here of the Oxford Manor
15 apartments,
16 Q Okay.
17 A Which in a sense is not the same case.
18 Q You are correct.
19 A Thank you.
20 Q That was other litigation that ar°ose out of
21 this case.
22 A Okay.
23 Q And you were hired by yet another attorney
24 in another matter, You were hired by Eugene Maginnis of
25 the Cozen and O'Connor firm?
33
• •
1 A Yes.
2 Q And you were hired in January of 1988, that
3 is when you rendered your report?
4 A Yes.
5 Q And you never went out to the fire scene?
6 A No.
7 Q You never saw these items until you
8 rendered your report, before you rendered your report?
9 A I saw them before I rendered my report in
10 1988.
11 Q You would agree that if someone came in
12 here yesterday testified -- oh, what is the material here?
13 A I really don't know,
14 Q Well, didn't you gust testify a minute ago
15 that it was insulation?
16 A No, no. The insulation is the charred
17 surfaces that remains to cover the electrode strips I was
18 describing. I described the strip as ten inches long,
19 partially exposed, partially concealed.
20 Q And you would agree that this fabric
21 material is inside there?
22 A I think it is adhered to it. I have no
23 reason to believe it was inside it.
24 Q Now, when you rendered your report -- let
25 me give you a copy of it back so you know what I am making
34
i •
1 reference to -- when you rendered your report, and you
2 have on the front page what you looked at, you never
3 looked at the deposition of Mr. Logue, did you?
4 A At that time, I was provided a statement by
5 Mr. Logue. It may well be he had not been deposed at that
6 time. I am not sure.
7 Q Did you feel it was important to ask the
8 attorneys had he been deposed and what did he say about
9 what he did that night?
10 A Well, after rendering my report to my
11 client, I was asked no further opinions or questions on
12 the case.
13 Q Well, before you came here to testify --
14 and you are testifying against my client -- did you feel
15 it would be fair to look at Mr. Logue's deposition since
16 he was the one who first discovered the fire?
17 A Mr. Logue's findings are all explained in
18 his statement, which I have a copy of.
19 Q How about Mr. Seifert's -- apologize if I
20 have been mispronouncing it -- Mr. Seifert's deposition,
21 did you review that to see what he observed the night of
22 the fire?
23 A No.
24 Q I want to go over your report with you
25 because a few things you said here today -- well, let me
35
• •
1 find my Copy of it -- a few things you said here today are
2 a little diff erent than what you said in your report. Do
3 you have your report in front of you?
4 A Yes, sir.
5 Q Okay. Let's get one thing straight, okay.
6 You, in your report, don't say that this fire is the
7 result of an overloading of the extension cord?
8 A No, I never felt that that was the cause.
9 Q So let's get that out of the picture right
10 away, because there was stuff in the opening address about
11 the extension cord. You agree that this extension cord is
12 not the cause of the fire?
13 A No, sir, not that extension cord.
14 Q Okay. When did you change your opinion?
15 Now you say that a fire started up on the wall or in the
16 wall area?
17 A In the wall, sir?
18 Q In the wall area. Does it start on the
19 floor or near the wall?
20 A Well, could I read from my report to be
21 more specific?
22 Q Forget your report. What are You saying
23 here today? We will get into what you are saying in your
24 report. What are you saying up here today? Did it start
25 up on the wall or did it start down on the floor?
36
•
1 A I am saying here today that the fire
2 started at the location of that multi-tap outlet which we
3 have learned is on the wall sandwiched between the blocks
4 and the exterior surface,
5 Q How far was that from the couch?
6 A Right adjacent to it,
7 Q Let me back up, Look at your report, And
8 you start -- do you have page 3 of your report?
9 A 3?
10 Q Look at the second sentence on the third
11 page, first paragraph.
12 A Starts therefore the --
13 Q Let me back up. I want to ask you about
14 it. You call ed this thing a multi-tap outlet.
15 (Indicating)
16 A Yes.
17 Q Didn't you say in your report -- I will
18 read it, tell me if I am reading it correctly --
19 therefore, th e Supply cord and multi-tap outlet must rest
20 on the floor below the aquarium, Am I reading that
21 correct, sir?
22 A Yes, you are.
23 Q Okay, Isn't that your opinion up until
24 today when I heard your new opinion that you wrote in your
25 report that t he fire started from the multi-tap outlet
37
• •
1 down on the floor?
2 A On the original investigation, we were of
3 the opinion, and we gust learned with this new case --
4 and, please, I haven't explained it yet -- that the
5 multi-tap out let was on the floor. It was the photograph
6 that was prod uced as a result of this second case. And I
7 refer --
8 Q Let me interrupt. You are not answering my
9 question.
10 A I think I am.
11 MR. LANG: Sir, I think he is giving his
12 answer and I think Mr. Duffy --
13 THE COURT; All right. Easy. Let him
14 finish.
15 BY MR. DUFFY:
16 Q Okay.
17 A I was provided Plaintiff's Exhibit 4 for
18 the first tim e as a result of this case that we are
19 dealing with. At the time I did the original
20 investigation in 1988, Plaintiff's Exhibit 4 was not
21 produced as a photograph. And this photograph very
22 clearly shows that the multi-tap device that you have gust
23 removed in th e box was positioned behind the wall because
24 one can measu re the thickness of cinder blocks and get an
25 elevation.
38
• •
1 Q You would agree then that when you wrote
2 your report you said that the fire started from the
3 multi-tap down on the floor?
4 A We were of the opinion --
S Q Sir, is that what you said in your report?
6 A That is exactly what I said.
7 Q And you had no problem writing in your
8 report that, in litigation against my client, that it
9 started down on the floor?
10 A I am of the opinion that the multi-tap is
11 the heat source regardless.
12 Q Please answer my question. Back in January
13 of '88, without knowing everything, you had no problem
14 writing a report in a case against my client that the fire
15 started down on the floor?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Okay. Did you ask to see all the
18 photographs?
19 A I could only see what was provided.
20 Q You are not answering my question again,
21 Mr. Grow. Di d you ask to see all the photographs?
22 A `V'~~~, I did,
23 Q And do you know -- did you look at the
24 report of Mr. McLaughlin?
25 A McLaughlin? I did.
39
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1 Q Take my word far it?
2 A I did.
3 Q These photographers were in his report,
4 weren't they?
5 A I have no idea where the photograph of the
6 block is from . These may be Mr. McLaughlin's. I don't
7 know.
8 Q They are Mr. McLaughlin's photographs, the
9 other expert hired in this case, aren't they? And they
10 are in his re port that you reviewed?
11 MR. LANG: Your Honor, is Mr. Duffy
12 testifying or is this a question?
13 THE COURT: Well, these are pretty precise
14 questions.
15 BY MR. DUFFY:
16 Q Aren't they in Mr. McLaughlin's report?
17 A I have no idea where Plaintiff Exhibit 4
18 came from as far as reports are. I would have to take
19 your word for that.
20 Q Okay. But you had no qualms with writing
21 the report sa ying the fire started down on the floor?
22 A What I said to you, sir, was I did not see
23 Plaintiff's Exhibit 4 until --
24 Q You had no qualms writing a report that the
25 fire started down on the floor?
40
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1 A Exactly.
2 Q Now, you are doing a big reversal of that
3 and you are saying it started up on the wall?
4 A I am coming up 12 inches.
5 Q You would agree that -- and I have no w
6 marked this D-3 --
7 (Whereupon,
8 Defendant Exhibit No. 3
9 was marked for identification.)
10 BY MR. DUFFY;
11 Q -- from the photographs we have seen, that
12 the fire didn't start down on the floor?
13 A Would you -- is that a question, sir?
14 Q Would you agree the fire didn't start down
15 on the floor?
16 A As there is carpeting showing, no. A nd in
17 addition, 55 gallons of water dumped on that carpet.
18 Q Please, answer my question.
19 A No, it did not start on the floor.
20 Q You agree -- so you agree your report is
21 wrong with regard to that. For whatever reason, you
22 didn't get supplied the items or you didn't ask for them,
23 whatever. You would agree your report is wrong when you
24 say it started on the floor?
25 A At the time I did my report, I was of the
41
• •
1 opinion it started on the floor.
2 Q Now you have a different opinion today?
3 A I only have a different opinion because I
4 can see for the first time where the multi-tap outlet is
5 positioned.
6 Q Look to the second paragraph on page 3.
7 No, let's back up to page 2, last paragraph. I am looking
8 at a sentence, let me .approach you -- we will go over your
9 report together . Let's look at the things you based your
10 opinion on.
11 Tell me if I am reading it correctly. One
12 of the things Y ou say in your report was Mr. Logue's
13 testimony indic ates -- here it is -- you indicate Mr,
14 Logue stated he saw a red glow where the couch was and the
15 couch was Just beginning to burn? Is that what you said
16 in the report?
17 A That is correct.
18 Q So you thought it started over by the couch
19 and then spread to the curtains?
20 A Yes.
21 Q So you don't have any evidence that the
22 curtains were t he first source -- first thing that ignited
23 here?
24 A In fact, I make that clear in my report
25 that the curtai ns were not first.
42
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1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
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Q So if Mr. Kufta was in here yesterday
trying to get us to believe that the curtains were somehow
down in this multi-tap outlet, you don't agree with that?
A Well, I can't say I -- I do agree with that
in a sense because the edge of the curtains were right
where the multi-tap outlet would be approximately.
Q Then you have here the total correct
connected load would not exceed the 15 ampacity of the
outlet.
A That is correct,
Q Okay. Then you have what we talked about
earlier, therefore, the SUpp1Y cord and multi-tap outlet
would rest on the floor below the aquarium. And that was
an assumption You made?
A I was of the opinion it was to the floor.
Q And it was an assumption You made that was
incorrect?
A It was the opinion that I read.
Q And you also made other assumptions. For
example, the cords on these different items were six feet
long. That is an assumption you made also?
A That is standard from the --
Q But you don't really know what this
equipment had?
A I could not measure it because the
43
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1 equipment is not here.
2 Q And you don't know whether it was even
3 approved by th e Underwriters Laboratory?
4 A Oh --
5 Q You don't know if any of this equipment was
6 approved?
7 A No.
8 Q You don't know if somebody goes to a store
9 and it is not approved, they don't know it is not approved
10 or they can't --
11 A Most people get upset if they can't get a
12 six foot cord. Six foot is standard, and you are trying
13 to make it sou nd like it is not standard.
14 Q You are trying to make it an assumption
15 that these are six feet long?
16 A My experience has shown that all cords are
17 six foot long, and I will stand by that.
18 Q You can't show here any six foot length of
19 cord from the transformer to the tap outlet, can you?
20 Because we have to accept the wires were broken. They
21 were handled. They were removed as evidence, and there is
22 pieces missing .
23 Q But you can't come in here and show us a
24 six foot cord for the three items that were --
25 A No, I can't.
44
• •
1 Q Then you have here, you have your cord
2 insulation m aterial was subJect to foot traffic. Okay.
3 Back then yo u were saying what caused the fire was people
4 walking on t he cords?
5 A As a probable explanation, yes.
6 Q So you have then got rid of that
7 explanation, and today you have a new explanation that it
8 is six foot cords Jumbled up?
9 A That is not a variation. It is the same as
10 the original report. I don't see a change.
11 Q But you are saving here it was foot traffic
12 that caused the problem?
13 A We gave an explanation.
14 Q Foot traffic?
15 A That is correct. And I believe that, and
16 it is still a part of the explanation today.
17 Q Well, this thing is up on the floor wall.
18 You are sayi ng now people are walking on the wall?
19 A Your explanation is such that every piece
20 of cord is up on the wall and none is on the floor, and
21 that is not practical,
22 Q Then you have here obviously -- obviously,
23 do you see that?
24 A That is a poor word, I agree.
25 Q Obviously -- and this is all going to be so
45
•
1 obvious -- the fish were tended to in the 15 minute period
2 prior to Mr. Logue retiring.
3 A The explanation --
4 Q Now, wait a minute. Is that what it says?
5 A That is what it says.
6 Q Can you show me any evidence or anybody
7 that said Mr. Logue went over and tended these fish? Is
8 there any evi dence in the case that says that, other than
9 in your mind?
10 A Yes. Can I explain that?
11 Q Answer my question.
12 A Is there any evidence?
13 Q Yes.
14 A I have to explain, if I may.
15 Q Just answer my question. Is there
16 evidence, yes or no? And then you can explain.
17 A There is a fire, And we are attempting to
18 determine why there is a fire at a given time. And may I
19 explain it or is that the end?
20 Q Sir, can You answer my question? Is there
21 any evidence in the depositions, in the testimony of Mr.
22 Logue, anywhe re, that says he went and tended the fish for
23 15 minutes be fore he went to bed?
24 A Mr. Logue's testimony is that he entered
25 the apartment and within 15 minutes retired.
46
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1 Q Then let me ask it, is there any evidence
2 he went over to the fish tank?
3 A Precisely those words, no. He does not
4 state that. But he also says there is no evidence of
5 smoke at the time he enters, no evidence of the impending
6 fire. And y et it occurred.
7 And we know where it occurred, and there
8 has to be an explanation. You have to take all the facts
9 and compile it into some reasonable explanation, that
10 someone may well have been near the wires.
11 Q And then someone -- now, you are saying
12 that one of the explanations is som~t~ne may have been near
13 the wires?
14 A Not someone, Mr. Logue. Because he was the
15 only occupan t.
16 Q And then the next thing you say, it would
17 be the activ ity -- talking about Mr. Logue's activity --
18 surrounding the aquarium that caused damage to insulation
19 either by fo ot traffic or pressure on the masonry blocks.
20 Is that what you said there?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Now, you say it is Mr. Logue's activities
23 on that night that caused the damage. Is that what you
24 are saying?
25 A Yes.
47
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1 Q Oh, okay. Now, you Just testified that
2 about one-t hird of all fires are electrical in origin?
3 A That is what the National Fire Protection
4 Association --
5 Q That is the statistic?
6 A Yes.
7 Q And that is because things that are
8 electrical break down?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Things such as the transformer or the pump
11 or the filt er, they can Just break down, can't they?
12 A Certainly.
13 Q And sometimes wires connected to them can
14 Just break down?
15 A Yes.
16 Q And we don't know exactly which wire, if
17 there is an electrical -- you read Trooper Kluges'
18 deposition?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Trooper Kluges said in his deposition that
21 he would he think an x-ray test of the wires should be
22 done by an expert in order to determine if there was
23 beading or signs of electrical activity, Do you agree
24 with that s tatement in Trooper Kluges' deposition?
25 A I think we found the beading without the
48
• •
1 necessity of an x-ray to prove it.
2 Q But we don't know what wire the beading was
3 on, do we, if it was to the pump --
4 A No, that is true.
5 Q Let's get one thing straight, The stereo
6 system and the TV, they are out of this, aren't they?
7 A In my opinion, yes.
8 Q Now, sometimes things Just break down,
9 their products wear out, Right?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And they sometimes wear out, you have
12 testified in cases, where parts have Just worn out and
13 that causes a fire?
14 A Yes.
15 Q And they sometimes wear out and that causes
16 a fire, and th at is not in any way the consumer's fault
17 that the thing wore out and caused a fire. You have
18 testified to c ases in that effect, haven't you'?
19 A Yes.
20 Q In this case, we don't really know -- we
21 have given exp lanations, the foot traffic, we now know
22 that is not tr ue; you gave another explanation today that
23 possibly there was some misuse of the cords?
24 A There is an obvious misuse of the cords.
25 Q But isn't there also a possibility or
49
• •
1 probability that it could gust be a wearing out of one of
2 these items?
3 A May I answer that?
4 Q Answer it.
5 A As you asked before with production, one
6 cannot gust blame a product without being able to support
7 the fact that it d id fail.
8 Q Let me cut you off there. One can't blame
9 anyone without sup porting the fact that they did it?
10 A Cor rect.
11 MR. DUFFY: I have nothing further.
12 THE WITNESS: You take the evidence --
13 MR. DUFFY: I have no further questions.
14 THE COURT: All right.
15 MR. LANG: Your Honor, he was in the middle
16 of an answer when he got cut off.
17 THE COURT: All right. Did you have a
18 further answe r?
19 THE WITNESS: Yes. I was trying to
20 explain, sir, that all investigations can be made to sound
21 rather simple and in some cases stupid. But in the end,
22 one must only take the evidence that is available, compile
23 it, and then give an opinion that can be supported by what
24 is acceptable mean s of electrical abuse or failure.
25 THE COURT: You are done, aren't you?
50
•
1 MR. DUFFY: Let me Just -- I am done, Your
2 Honor.
3 THE COURT: Mr. Lang?
4
5 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. LANG:
7 Q Mr. Grow, Mr. Duffy has asked you some
8 questions and attempted to imply that your opinion has
9 changed from b efore today. Has your opinion changed from
10 the date of yo ur report until today, or Just the location
11 of the device?
12 A The location, which is a matter of 12
13 inches, I thin k I testified to, from what I have learned
14 here.
15 Q Also Mr. Duffy asked you questions and
16 attempted to i mply that your opinion in your report is
17 only that the fire was caused by damage to the cords by
18 foot traffic, but then he read a sentence from your report
19 and indicated that it could have also been caused by the
20 pressure of the masonry block. And that was your opinion
21 way back when you wrote your report, isn't that correct?
22 A I used the word pressure on masonry blocks,
23 yes.
24 MR. LANG: That is all I have.
25 MR. DUFFY: I Just have one follow-up.
51
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1 RECROSS-EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. DUFFY:
3 Q You would agree you can't sit there and
4 testify within a reasonable degree of scientific certainty
5 as to the specific cause of the fire?
6 A I can't agree with that, sir. There is
7 enough evidence to support that a fire was involved in the
8 electrical wiring. Yes, I will stay with that, I am not
9 changing that.
10 Q Other than it was a fire with the
11 electrical wiring, you can't say within a reasonable
12 degree of scientific certainty as to what electrical
13 component caused the fire?
14 A I feel within a reasonable degree that I
15 can make a determination based on the evidence,
16 Q Well, you can't say that within a
17 reasonable degree that it wasn't the cord to the pump?
18 A No. I have explained it to be the
19 multi-tap. There may be a cord to the pump from the
20 multi-tap because they are all disconnected. The
21 multi-tap shows no cord connections, yet we know it was
22 utilized to, for instance, to supply the pump. Or so
23 testimony has said.
24 Q But you can't really say what caused the
~5 fire, can you?
52
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1 MR. LANG: That was asked and answered
2 three times now.
3 THE COURT: Well, the fury will have to
4 recollect this.
5 MR. DUFFY: Okay.
6 THE COURT: I believe that is it now.
7 MR. DUFFY: I am finished.
8 THE COURT: You may step down.
9 MR. LANG: With that witness, the plaintiff
10 rests his case.
11 (Whereupon, the testimony of William David
12 Grow was concluded.)
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CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the proceedings are contained
fully and accurately in the notes taken by me on the above cause
and that this is a correct transcript of same.
s ~....
i99o
Mari T. Farley
Official Reporter
The foregoing record of the proceedings upon the above
cause is hereby approved and directed to be filed.
1~° ~
r-199o
rge E. Hof er, J.