HomeMy WebLinkAbout10-18-01
1 March 22, 2001
2 Carlisle, Pennsylvania
3 (Whereupon, the following testimony
4 was requested:)
5 THE COURT: Hi, Mrs. Gerber.
6 MRS. GERBER: Hi, how are you?
7 THE COURT: I am Judge Bayley. Tell me your
8 name.
9 MRS. GERBER: My name is Mildred.
10 THE COURT: Mildred what?
11 MRS. GERBER: Mildred Gerber.
12 THE COURT: We are going to ask you a few
13 questions here today.
14 MRS. GERBER: Okay.
15 THE COURT: And I am going to have the court
16 reporter swear you in, and it means you have to tell the
17 truth .....
18 MRS. GERBER: I think I can handle that.
19 THE COURT: And then when you are asked some
20 questions, your daughter is going to ask you some questions -
21 and possibly some lawyers for your brother and your own
22 lawyer, if you know the answer to the question, you state
23 what the answer is. If you do not, then tell us you do not
24 know.
25 MRS. GERBER: Okay.
THE COURT: We will go slowly, and this
2 won't be as hard as you think it might be.
3 MRS. GERBER: Okay.
4 THE COURT: You may remain seated. If you
5 would raise your right hand, the court reporter will swear
6 you in.
7 Whereupon,
8 MILDRED J. GERBER,
9 having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
10 BY THE COURT:
11 Q I am going to ask you a few questions to
12 begin with. If you would speak right into that microphone.
13 A I will.
14 Q Now, again, would you tell me your name.
15 A Mildred Gerber.
16 Q And where do you live?
17 A ~Where I live in -- oh, shucks, 623 Hilltop
18 Drive in New Cumberland.
19 Q And do you have some children?
20 A Not small or young children, but I gave
21 birth to three children.
22 Q Three children. They are all adults?
23 A They are all adults now, yes.
24 Q Tell me their names?
25 A Well, the oldest girl is Marilyn, and the
1 next one is my son Fred, and I have a daughter Jane.
2 Q Do you mind telling me how old you are?
3 A Sir, I was born in 1914.
4 Q Okay. And the name of your husband?
5 A My husband's name was Frederick.
6 Q Is he deceased?
7 A Yes, he is.
8 Q Do you remember the year he died?
9 A About three to three and a half to four
10 years ago. He was an Army officer.
11 Q Do you know how long you have lived here in
12 New Cumberland?
13 A That we've lived in New Cumberland?
14 Q Yes.
15 A I would say 23 years.
16 Q Twenty-three years.
17 A Or more. -I wasn't prepared for this, but
18 this is all right I'll answer what I know.
19 THE COURT: Your daughter is going to ask
20 you some questions, and you listen for her now. If you
21 understand the question, answer it. If you do not, just
22 tell us you don't.
23 DIRECT EXAMINATION
24 BY MS. GERBER:
25 Q Hi, mother.
4
1 A Hello.
2 MS. GERBER: I'm Going to refer to her as
3 mom. Is that all right?
4 THE COURT: Yes.
5 MS. GERBER: Would it be all right, Your
6 Honor, if I asked her just to read a line from some
7 documents and comment?
8 THE COURT: You read something to her and
9 tell her what it is. We will do it that way.
10 THE WITNESS: I can't hear that well.
11 MS. GERBER: She does a lot better when she
12 reads.
13 THE COURT: Speak up now and ask questions.
14 MS. GERBER: Could I Get closer to her so --
15 THE COURT: No. I want you to read anything
16 to her.
17 BY MS. GERBER: --
18 Q Hi, mom. How are you?
19 A All right.
20 Q I'm Going to ask you some questions, and I
21 am Going to read somethinG.
22 THE COURT: I want you to speak loudly.
23 BY MS. GERBER:
24 Q I'm Going to read somethinG. This is a
25 letter on 11 January 1998. The letter is --
5
1 MS. GERBER: Excuse me, Your Honor, do you
2 have to approve this before I ask her this or not?
3 THE COURT: What are you representing that
4 is?
5 MS. GERBER: It is a comment -- one
6 paragraph from my brother what he's going to do to her.
7 THE COURT: Is it a letter you represent
8 that your mother wrote?
9 MS. GERBER: No. This is a letter my
10 mother -- my brother wrote to our family and his wife wrote
11 to me.
12 THE COURT: Ask the question.
13 BY MS. GERBER:
14 Q Mother, I would like to read a paragraph
15 from a letter from my brother and Petra, his wife, in
16 January 1998. It was actually four days before dad went
17 ....... into-the hospital. I'm going to read this paragraph, okay,
18 if you'll give me a comment.
19 It says, mom and dad, you both look good.
20 Mom, you seem to be getting around pretty well considering
21 your injury and your age. You still look very attractive
22 and haven't gotten fat or let yourself go like some women.
23 Dad's pretty lucky. I know you don't need me meddling, but
24 I really think you ought to think about going into a one
25 level house where everything would be more conveniently
located. You are going to need to do it sooner or later,
2 so better not wait until I'm in charge and put you away in
3 one of those old people's homes. That's the one paragraph.
4 THE COURT: Ask her a question, ma'am.
5 BY MS. GERBER:
6 Q How do you feel about this paragraph, your
7 son writing to you in 1998 and telling you that when he's
8 in control of you that he would put you away in an old
9 person's home or a nursing home? How would you feel about
10 that?
11 MS. VERNEY: Judge, I'm going to object to
12 that.
13 THE COURT: Sustained, totally improper.
14 Next question.
15 BY MS. GERBER:
16 Q Mother, are you a Catholic?
17 A Absolutely.
18 Q Would you describe yourself as being a
19 devout Catholic?
20 A Well, I don't praise myself like that, but
21 I've been very faithful about my religion.
22 Q Do you go to mass every Sunday at St.
23 Theresa's Church?
24 A I try to very hard.
25 Q And before you were in your, let's say, mid
7
1 70's to now, did you often go to mass every day?
2 A I wouldn't say every day but every day I
3 could that I was permitted.
4 Q And the people at St. Theresa's Church, they
5 are used to seeing you in the past taking care of the alter
6 linens in the church, going to the little chapel to mass in
7 the morning, is that correct, in the 70's and the 80's,
8 1970's and 1980's?
9 A I don't know what this has to do with the
10 letter.
11 Q I know, mom, this is difficult, but this is
12 unfortunately where we are right now in court.
13 THE COURT: You have gone to church a lot
14 while you have been in New Cumberland?
15 THE WITNESS: Yes.
16 THE COURT: Next question.
17 BY MS. GERBER:
18 Q This is a paragraph from my brother in this
19 family letter.
20 THE COURT: Show the paragraph to counsel
21 before you read it.
22 MS. VERNEY: Judge, I don't understand the
23 relevance.
24 THE COURT: Show it to me. Come on up and
25 show it to me.
8
1 MS. GERBER: You want to see it?
2 THE COURT: I want to see what you want to
3 read.
4 MS. GERBER: Approach the bench, right?
5 THE COURT: Yes. Point at it.
6 MS. GERBER: This last sentence in that
7 paragraph.
8 THE COURT: Sustained. Quickly move to
9 something that is relevant.
10 BY MS. GERBER:
11 Q Mom, this last summer -- this is winter 2000
12 or actually spring 2001 -- but last summer, which is 2000,
13 I came back from California in August. Do you remember
14 there being a flood in the basement, and we had to get the
15 Free Flow man to come and root out all of the vines in the
16 lines because there was water -- a couple inches of water
17 in the basement?
18 A Yes.
19 Q And do you remember actually several times
20 the Free Flow man came and I went down there and got him
21 organized with the light and helped him the various times
22 that this water flooded the basement? Do you remember
23 that?
24 A No.
25 Q Do you remember at least one time that this
9
1 happened you went across the street and got Mr. Lowler to
2 come over and help us, and he came up with a man and a
3 company named Free Flow? Would you like to look at this
4 receipt?
5 THE COURT: No. You asked her if she
6 remembers. Do you remember that, ma'am?
7 MS. GERBER: She said first yes.
8 THE WITNESS: Yes, I remember the man.
9 MS. GERBER: Thank you.
10 BY MS. GERBER:
11 Q Do you remember an attorney by the name of
12 Joe Metz, Joseph Metz?
13 A Slightly.
14 Q And he came to the house and sat in your
15 dining room and talked to you about where your money was
16 and to try to find the money at Charles Schwab and he and
17 another .....
18 THE COURT: Do you remember that, ma'am?
19 THE WITNESS: Vaguely. Vaguely.
20 THE COURT: Next question.
21 BY MS. GERBER:
22 Q Do you remember the day that Joe Metz came
23 and my attorney Michael Kane came and we talked about Notre
24 Dame --
25 THE COURT: Do you remember those two
10
1 attorneys being there?
2 BY MS. GERBER:
3 Q In November of 2000.
4 A Well --
5 MS. GERBER: It's difficult at 86, Your
6 Honor.
7 THE WITNESS: I would say, yes, slightly.
8 BY MS. GERBER:
9 Q Do you remember that the issue at hand was
10 that you and I were asking this --
11 THE COURT: Wait a minute. Ask a direct
12 question. Do you remember what was discussed that day with
13 the two attorneys?
14 THE WITNESS: Well --
15 MS. GERBER: Your Honor --
16 THE COURT: Wait. She is answering my
17 r question. - ......
18 THE WITNESS: Is this the one that the man
19 pulled the tree trunks out of the --
20 MS. GERBER: That's the Free Flow man, the
21 Free Flow man, mother. That's the man who took away the
22 trunks. We're talking about attorneys now.
23 THE COURT: Do you remember two attorneys
24 coming to your house and talking to you, Mr. Kane and Mr.
25 Metz?
11
THE WITNESS: I have a slight -- yes.
2 MS. GERBER: Your Honor, I would like to
3 make a comment, please, one brief comment. My mother for
4 over 30 years keeps notes --
5 THE COURT: Ma'am, you may not make a
6 comment. You may, however, ask direct questions and direct
7 questions only.
8 MS. GERBER: My mother keeps notes. I would
9 like to show this to my mother.
10 THE COURT: Go ahead. Show it to her.
11 MS. GERBER: And ask her to read it and
12 comment on it.
13 BY MS. GERBER:
14 Q Here's notes, mom --
15 THE COURT: Show it to her, and then you may
16 ask a question about it.
17 THE WITNESS: Let me have it. -
18 THE COURT: Stand back there.
19 BY MS. GERBER:
20 Q Would you tell me about this piece of paper? -
21 THE COURT: Do you know what that is, ma'am?
22 THE WITNESS: Boy, I tell you, it's a bunch
23 of words but --
24 BY MS. GERBER:
25 Q Is that your handwriting?
12
1 A This isn't my handwriting.
2 THE COURT: Next question.
3 BY MS. GERBER:
4 Q I would like to show you two more, mom, and
5 tell me if this is not your handwriting. Maybe put them
6 down here, mom.
7 A Just a second.
8 THE COURT: Take the other one back, the
9 first one. Take the first one back.
10 MS. GERBER: She's got it in her hand. Do
11 you want me to rip it out of her hand?
12 THE COURT: Step back. Do you recognize
13 those, ma'am?
14 THE WITNESS: This has got Joe in the corner
15 here. I don't know who Joe is.
16 BY MS. GERBER:
17 Q Ls that Joe Metz, mom, your attorney?
18 A I have no idea, Marilyn.
19 Q When Mr. Metz would come to the house, did
20 you often take a note pad, a writer's note pad, and write
21 notes as he and you talked about things together? Were you
22 also --
23 THE COURT: Wait. You have got to keep your
24 questions short. Let her answer.
25 THE WITNESS: Just give me a chance to look
13
1 at the thing and I will tell you.
2 MS. GERBER: That's fine, mom. Take your
3 time.
4 THE WITNESS: There's such a mix up here
5 that you mentioned the Rupps and the Bairds and Lindsay
6 Baird and people like this, and I have forgotten -- my mind
7 doesn't --
8 MS. GERBER: May I ask --
9 THE COURT: Wait. Let her finish. Your
10 mind doesn't what, ma'am?
11 THE WITNESS: My mind doesn't lean towards
12 trying to remember these people. I did well enough to
13 concern myself about my children.
14 THE COURT: Okay. Question.
15 BY MS. GERBER:
16 Q Mother, did you have a -- was it customary
17 for you, mom, to keep notes-when people were on the phone
18 with you? Did you keep a note pad by the phone and write
19 notes as people talked to you?
20 A Sometimes, depends. It depends on a lot of
21 this.
22 Q Was that so you could go back and remember
23 what the phone conversation was about?
24 A Well --
25 Q Was it --
14
1 THE COURT: Ma'am, you must ask one question
2 at a time.
3 THE WITNESS: This named them by name
4 instead of --
5 BY MS. GERBER:
6 Q Okay. When Jane or Fred or I would call
7 you, or Kitty, your friends, and we would talk to you, you
8 know, 10, 15 -- you and I used to talk sometimes an hour on
9 the phone. Would you pencil --
10 A Keep your hands down, please.
11 Q Would you pencil little notes beside the
12 telephone or in the kitchen on the table what we were
13 talking about, the conversation? Would you often do that
14 over the years?
15 A I can't say that I did.
16 Q When you would have meetings with Joseph
1.7~ Metz, would you often have a note pad_with him and write
18 down things that you discussed and --
19 MR. RUPP: Objection, Your Honor. I'm not
20 sure we established a lot of meetings with Mr. Metz.
21 THE COURT: Do you remember ever meeting
22 with a man by the name of Mr. Metz?
23 THE WITNESS: Well, you had so many men that
24 were lawyers and doctors and all those people. I don't
25 know which Metz you are talking.
15
BY MS. GERBER:
2 Q Mr. Metz was a tall gentleman. He was a
3 lawyer, and he came to the house often in the evenings.
4 You and he would talk together alone after we would just
5 generally say hello, all three of us, and I would step
6 away.
7 THE COURT: Do you remember that, ma'am?
8 MS. GERBER: And he was your attorney.
9 THE COURT: Stop when I ask a question.
10 THE WITNESS: Judge, it doesn't register a
11 print on my brain.
12 THE COURT: Okay. Next question.
13 BY MS. GERBER:
14 Q Do you remember talking to Mr. Metz and my
15 attorney, Michael Kane, about trying to find out where all
16 your money was with Charles Schwab and the other money that
17 ~your husband had left you?
18 A Well, why are we talking about money?
19 Q Because this is -- unfortunately this case
20 is about money, mother. I'm sorry.
21 THE COURT: Do you remember talking to --
22 did you say Mr. Kane and Mr. Metz about that?
23 MS. GERBER: Um-hum.
24 THE COURT: Talking about money with Charles
25 Schwab and other accounts?
16
1 THE WITNESS: You know, I don't talk about
2 my -- what I have in money and things like that, and I
3 haven't lived by that principle of look at Millie Gerber,
4 she's got all this money. I didn't do that, Marilyn.
5 BY MS. GERBER:
6 Q Are you saying that it's uncomfortable for
7 you to talk about finances and money because it's not
8 something you usually did?
9 A What was the last part of the sentence?
10 Q Is it fair to say that you are a person that
11 doesn't talk about yourself or your money?
12 A Not very often.
13 Q And is it fair to say, mom --
14 THE COURT: Ask a direct question. Move to
15 a point.
16 BY MS. GERBER:
17 Q When dad was alive, did you do all of the __
18 banking and the check writing, the financing, or did dad do
19 it?
20 A Well, he did a large portion of it.
21 Q So unfortunately, mom --
22 THE COURT: No, that is not a lead start of
23 a question. Ask a question.
24 BY MS. GERBER:
25 Q When dad passed away, mom, did you have to
17
1 then take up the responsibility of writing checks and
2 dealing with your own money, going to Weis, going to the
3 restaurants?
4 A Well, of course, I had to pay for what I was
5 buying, food, and little things here and there that had to
6 be paid for on the spot.
7 Q Do you remember taking care of a litter of
8 feral cats in the winter of '99?
9 A Yes. But why bring that kind of stuff up?
10 THE COURT: Good point, ma'am. Let's move
11 on to something other than feral cats.
12 MS. GERBER: This is my mother.
13 THE COURT: Look, this is a case, and I do
14 not want to hear about feral cats anymore. Get to the
15 point.
16 MS. GERBER: I'm trying to establish her
17 memory.
18 THE COURT: Get to the point or it is ended.
19 MS. GERBER: Could I show her the revoction
20 document, please?
21 THE COURT: Yes.
22 BY MS. GERBER:
23 Q I would like to show you this document, mom.
24 THE COURT: Let her see it, and then go back
25 and ask her a question about it. Do you know what that is,
18
1 ma'am?
2 THE WITNESS: It's so much writing together
3 and thoughts together that, I'm sorry, but it doesn't mean
4 anything to me.
5 BY MS. GERBER:
6 Q Is that your signature, mother?
7 A Is this my signature?
8 THE COURT: Stand back at the bar.
9 THE WITNESS: Yes.
10 BY MS. GERBER:
11 Q Would you read the date to me, please, mom.
12 A December the 26th, 2000.
13 Q Thank you. If I were to say to you that
14 that was a document that Mr. Metz drew up for you to sign,
15 he left it in your house to si~n, and the purpose of that
16 document was to remove Fred as trustee and power of
17 attorney so that we could find out where the money was that
18 dad left all of us, does that ring a bell to you, this
19 document? Do you remember discussing --
20 THE COURT: Let her answer.
21 THE WITNESS: No, I don't because I don't
22 recall that dad made out a bill of what everybody was going
23 to receive.
24 BY MS. GERBER:
25 Q Would you please look at these pages.
19
1 A And you say dad wrote this?
2 Q No. Is that your handwriting, mom?
3 A No, it's not.
4 Q Would you look at each page for me, please.
5 A What?
6 Q Would you just glance at each page, mother,
7 and see if that's not your handwriting.
8 A In 19977
9 Q Um-hum.
10 A I don't even know who wrote this, and it
11 doesn't look very --
12 Q Go through each page, mom. You could put it
13 on the counter there.
14 THE COURT: She will do it as she wishes.
15 THE WITNESS: There's people's names in here
16 like mom and Florence and all. Who do I know those
17 people --
18 MS. GERBER: Would you look at each page.
19 THE COURT: What do you want her to look
20 for?
21 MS. GERBER: Go to the last page and see if
22 there is a signature.
23 THE COURT: See if there is a signature on
24 the last page, ma'am.
25 MS. GERBER: You have to help her a little
20
1 bit.
2 THE COURT: And if there is, is it yours?
3 MS. GERBER: My mom's still reading the
4 first page.
5 BY MS. GERBER:
6 Q Mom, would you turn to the very back of
7 that, the very last page, please.
8 A I don't know who Florence is. There's so
9 many people.
10 Q Is that Florence Gerber? Is that dad's --
11 A I don't know.
12 Q Does dad have --
13 THE COURT: You are ricocheting questions
14 off her and it is going to stop. Now, do me a favor. Go
15 to the last page. There you go. Is that your signature
16 back there?
17 .~ THE WITNESS: This isn't my writing and
18 personal for Millie by dad. Dad didn't pass things like
19 that to me.
20 MS. GERBER: Fine. We'll take this
21 document, mom.
22 BY MS. GERBER:
23 Q Would you look at this document and tell me
24 what this is.
25 THE COURT: Did you write that, ma'am?
21
1 THE WITNESS: This is not my writing.
2 THE COURT: It is not your handwriting.
3 Question.
4 THE WITNESS: No, it's not my writing.
5 BY MS. GERBER:
6 Q Can you tell me -- can you read the first
7 couple of sentences, please.
8 THE COURT: Who do you represent this is?
9 MS. GERBER: It's a letter from my father to
10 my mother.
11 THE COURT: Your father to your mother?
12 MS. GERBER: It's a codicil to --
13 THE COURT: What is the relevancy?
14 MS. GERBER: It is a codicil to his last
15 will.
16 THE COURT: What is the relevancy?
17 ~ MS. GERBER: It states his intent of what he.-
18 asked my mother to do for him and also the distribution.
19 THE COURT: Get the document from her. It
20 is not relevant.
21 MS. GERBER: I will put it up in Orphans'
22 Court then.
23 THE COURT: You are finished with it, ma'am.
24 Just give it back to Marilyn. What are you showing her?
25 MS. GERBER: Her last will and testament,
22
1 Exhibit 8.
2 THE COURT: Whose last will and testament?
3 MS. GERBER: My mother's.
4 THE COURT: Your mother's?
5 MS. GERBER: Yes.
6 BY MS. GERBER:
7 Q Would you identify this, mom, for me,
8 please.
9 THE COURT: Turn to the last page, ma'am.
10 THE WITNESS: The last page.
11 THE COURT: Take a look at the signature.
12 Is that your signature?
13 THE WITNESS: The last page, good heavens --
14 THE COURT: Do you believe that is your
15 siqnature?
16 THE WITNESS: This one right here?
17 THE COURT: Yes.
18 THE WITNESS: Well, it could be and it
19 couldn't. I'm not going to say it is because I can't
20 fiqure what the substance of this thing is.
21 BY MS. GERBER:
22 Q Can you read the front page, mom, the title
23 on that page?
24 A Last will and testament. It's like a
25 document.
23
1 Q Do you remember giving me your will in
2 October of 2000 as well as giving a copy to Mr. Metz, your
3 attorney?
4 A Marilyn, I'm sorry, but this doesn't --
5 Q Do you remember that being the will that you
6 drew up, that you and Mr. Rupp drew up together?
7 A Where was it drawn up?
8 Q It was done in -- it was done in April '99,
9 that's awhile ago, with Mr. Rupp.
10 THE COURT: Do you remember that, ma'am, if
11 you do?
12 MS. GERBER: This is a will.
13 THE COURT: She says no. Next question.
14 BY MS. GERBER:
15 Q Would you identify this document for me?
16 THE COURT: What are you showing her?
17 MS. GERBER: It's her trust.
18 THE COURT: What date?
19 MS. GERBER: '99.
20 THE COURT: Do you recognize that, ma'am? -
21 THE WITNESS: Sir, I really don't.
22 THE COURT: Next question.
23 THE WITNESS: It's just a bunch of writing
24 on there, but it doesn't get to the point.
25 THE COURT: I understand.
24
1 BY MS. GERBER:
2 Q This is Exhibit 3. Mom, could you read
3 this.
4 THE COURT: What are you showing her?
5 MS. GERBER: It's notes from my mother
6 about --
7 THE COURT: When?
8 MS. GERBER: With Joe Metz.
9 THE COURT: Taken when?
10 MS. GERBER: In October, November 2000.
11 THE COURT: You may show it to her and step
12 back. Show it to her and step back.
13 MS. GERBER: Would you read --
14 THE COURT: Show it to her and step back.
15 Do you recognize it as your handwriting, ma'am?
16 THE WITNESS: Sir, this doesn't mean a
17 bit --
18 THE COURT: Let me ask you one more
19 question. I know it might not mean anything to you, but do
20 you even recognize it as your own handwriting?
21 THE WITNESS: No, it's not my handwriting.
22 And all this business here, $2,000.00, why is it so much
23 money in this thing?
24 THE COURT: Don't worry about it. Just put
25 it right down.
25
1 MS. GERBER: Can I ask her to read a
2 sentence, please?
3 THE COURT: No, you may not.
4 MS. GERBER: All right, mom, I'll take it
5 back.
6 THE WITNESS: $900,000.00, jeepers.
7 BY MS. GERBER:
8 Q Mom, do you remember --
9 THE COURT: Go back. Are you going to show
10 her more documents?
11 MS. GERBER: No.
12 THE COURT: I want you back at counsel
13 table.
14 MS. GERBER: Can I show her the wire
15 transfers? I don't think it's going to mean much to her.
16 THE COURT: I know.
17 ~ MS. GERBER: I'm going to ask her-questions.
18 THE COURT: You seem to be proving your
19 opponent's case, but keep going.
20 MS. GERBER: Pardon me?
21 THE COURT: You seem to be proving your
22 opponent's case as vividly as if a world renown
23 psychiatrist was here, but that's all right, continue.
24 MS. GERBER: We have closings, right, each
25 of us?
26
1 THE COURT: Oh, yes. Do you have anymore
2 questions of your mother?
3 MS. GERBER: My mom has stated that she
4 hasn't had a lot of financial experience, Your Honor. Yes.
5 Should I stand or sit --
6 THE COURT: Anyway you feel comfortable.
7 BY MS. GERBER:
8 Q Mom, do you remember that I was in a car
9 accident last year out in San Francisco?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And do you remember that I have not been
12 able to work for almost ten months now?
13 A I knew that you had the accident and that
14 you came back to my address and I did for you what I could
15 under the circumstances, but I wasn't so healthy myself.
16 Q Did that include, mother, loaning me money
17 that I was going to pay back to you once my insurance
18 settlement was paid?
19 A How much was -- no, you never mentioned
20 that.
21 Q Do you remember wiring me money to San
22 Francisco? Do you remember going down to PNC Bank and
23 talking to Marie and Jennifer and wiring me money to San
24 Francisco?
25 A How much money did I wire to you?
27
1 Q Well, you wired different amounts of money
2 each month.
3 A Every month the same thing?
4 Q No, different amounts, mom. But do you
5 remember the process of going to the bank and sending me
6 money to help me because of my accident?
7 A No, I don't.
8 Q Okay. Do you remember when I came back in
9 August of last year that you had terrible pain on your
10 right foot, shingles, and I took you to Dr. Sullivan and I
11 had to give you shots to help the pain and the shingles go
12 away? Do you remember me giving you shots in your leg?
13 A Shots in my leg?
14 Q Little tiny shots in the leg of medicine.
15 A I don't recall any shots, but I remember
16 going to him and he was sort of like a stranger to me. It
17 wasn't my regular doctors.
18 Q But he took care of you when you had the
19 shingles on your leg, is that correct?
20 A I'm not sure about that.
21 Q Do you remember your doctor, Dr. Bill
22 Richwine, Dr. Bill? Do you remember Dr. Bill?
23 A Yes.
24 Q In Camp Hill?
25 A Yes.
28
1 Q Did you like him?
2 A For awhile.
3 Q And do you remember that he reco~ended that
4 I get some help in taking care of you, and the first lady
5 we got was Mary Whipple? Do you remember Mary Whipple?
6 A Yes.
7 Q She was here today with you, this morning,
8 correct?
9 A I don't know.
10 Q Well, you talked to her this morning. Did
11 you like --
12 THE COURT: Hold on. Do you remember seeing
13 Miss Whipple this morning?
14 THE WITNESS: Well, I knew she was here.
15 THE COURT: Okay. Do you remember seeing
16 her?
17 THE WITNESS: Yes, I think very briefly,
18 very briefly.
19 BY MS. GERBER:
20 Q Did you like the way Mary took care of you,
21 mom?
22 A Why are you asking these questions?
23 MS. GERBER: Sir, my mom doesn't like to be
24 interrogated.
25 THE COURT: I can tell. You are the one
29
1 that called her. Next question.
2 MS. GERBER: I don't mean to be impertinent,
3 Your Honor, but I recall you ordering her to be here today.
4 THE COURT: That's right, because you have a
5 right to call her, and I have allowed you to do so. You
6 may continue.
7 BY MS. GERBER:
8 Q Mom, do you remember another lady by the
9 name of Julie that came to you? She was Jamaican and she
10 was dark skinned. She interviewed and took care of you and
11 spent a night in the house, and she was going to take care
12 of you for a two week period. Do you remember Julie? She
13 came a couple times to be with us.
14 THE COURT: You have a terrible tendency of
15 asking a question and then asking it in another way about
16 ten times. You are talking to your mother, an elderly
17 person. Now, ask a single compound sentence.
18 BY MS. GERBER:
19 Q Do you remember Julie Newman coming to the
20 house and spending some time with us, a couple different
21 times spending the night with us, making juice for you in
22 the kitchen? Do you remember that?
23 A No, I don't.
24 Q Mom, can you explain to me how we've gotten
25 to this point again that you are on a witness stand and we
30
1 have --
2 THE COURT: You are not going to ask her to
3 explain that at all. She is very unhappy about being here,
4 but she is here and she is doing fine. Next question.
5 BY MS. GERBER:
6 Q Mom, have you seen your physical therapist,
7 Amy, recently?
8 THE COURT: That is not relevant.
9 BY MS. GERBER:
10 Q Do you remember going to see your physical
11 therapist?
12 THE COURT: That is not relevant. Get off
13 that.
14 BY MS. GERBER:
15 Q Mom, have you seen your doctor, Dr. Bill
16 Richwine recently?
17 A No.
18 Q Why is that, mom?
19 A Well, I remember that you told me that if
20 anything would happen to you that he would back you up or,
21 you know, something like this.
22 Q Do you remember in February calling Dr. Bill
23 and saying, where is Marilyn, I'm afraid something's
24 happened to Marilyn, and asking him to take care of me? Do
25 you remember calling Dr. Richwine last month and --
31
1 THE COURT: Stop. Do you remember that?
2 THE WITNESS: No, I don't. I remember that
3 I had to depend upon you to take me over there, and, excuse
4 me, and there's just been so many things that have happened
5 that I don't remember all of the things that were said. He
6 made recordings of it and he never gave them to me, and I
7 never asked him for them.
8 BY MS. GERBER:
9 Q And did he help you with your hip and, you
10 know, give you medicine to take?
11 A No.
12 Q And vitamins?
13 A No.
14 Q Did I give you medicine and vitamins to take
15 in the house?
16 A I took a few vitamins.
17 Q And did you take medicine that your doctors-~
18 prescribed for you that I would give you? I would --
19 THE COURT: Hold on.
20 THE WITNESS: Marilyn, I can't remember some
21 of those things. I have other children and other reasons
22 to --
23 BY MS. GERBER:
24 Q Do you remember every morning we would have
25 breakfast together and I would put out a cup of pills?
32
1 A Not every morning, Marilyn.
2 Q Most mornings when I was in the house with
3 you, would we have breakfast and I would put a cup full of
4 medicine out for you?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Do you remember going to Hershey Medical
7 Center and seeing a doctor about your lungs? He was from
8 Virginia.
9 A I don't remember. You were pushing me into
10 every doctor.
11 Q Do you feel -- are you happy, mom, that I
12 take care of you?
13 THE COURT: No, no, no, no.
14 BY MS. GERBER:
15 Q Mom, do have any trouble with the way I take
16 care of you?
17 THE COURT: No. That is not the issue. Ask
18 a relevant question or it is going to end.
19 THE WITNESS: You were more careful -- you
20 were more involved in getting some more education and doing
21 this and that and the other thing, and I've lost track of
22 all that, Marilyn.
23 THE COURT: Next question.
24 BY MS. GERBER:
25 Q Mom, am I welcome to come into your home?
33
1 THE COURT: No, not relevant.
2 MS. GERBER: We're only going to deal with
3 capacity, that's all you want me to ask?
4 THE COURT: Roger Dodger.
5 MS. GERBER: Well, if we're only going to
6 deal with capacity, I would have to do testing on her.
7 THE COURT: Any cross examination?
8 MR. RUPP: No, Your Honor,
9 MS. VERNEY: I have a few questions, Judge,
10 just a very few.
11 CROSS EXAMINATION
12 BY MS. VERNEY:
13 Q Mrs. Gerber, do you know who I am?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Can you tell me what your assets are?
16 A No, I really don't. I'm not that kind of a
17 woman. I just know that my husband was one of the kindest
18 people in the world, and it never bothered me that I would,
19 you know --
20 Q Can you tell me what your source of income
21 is every month?
22 A What my source of income is? We own a
23 little piece of -- we own a house down in Baltimore. Is
24 that what you want?
25 Q Yes. Again, if you know.
34
A These people in this room will think that
2 I've got loads of money and I don't.
3 THE COURT: Don't worry about that, ma'am.
4 You own a house in Baltimore. Do you know of any other
5 source of income you have? You do not have to tell us how
6 much.
7 THE WITNESS: Let me tell you that the
8 department of -- you know, that my husband was in the
9 military?
10 MS. VERNEY: Yes, I do.
11 (Witnesses cane fell.)
12 THE WITNESS: That's because I broke my leg
13 one day.
14 MS. VERNEY: I will get it for you.
15 THE WITNESS: That's all right. What was
16 your question again?
17 BY MS. VERNEY:
18 Q If you know any other sources of your
19 monthly income other than that house you own in Baltimore.
20 A I got -- from the government, I got a
21 stipend from them practically every month, but it was very
22 small.
23 Q You don't know how much?
24 A Right. No, I can't quote right now and
25 honestly tell you but --
35
1 Q Okay.
2 A -- I know I needed all of it to subside on.
3 Q Who has been taking care of your financial
4 matters for the last six months?
5 A My son has been doing that, and I feel that
6 he's very capable of doing this because he's worked with
7 the military personnel, mothers and fathers and people who,
8 you know, move from here and there. I support him as
9 being capable of doing this because he works very
10 conscientiously.
11 When some terrible thing like an earthquake
12 or something like that he has to work very, very hard, and
13 I admire him for giving up what he may have decided that he
14 would like to do rather than that.
15 Q And you understand your son has asked to be
16 named co-guardian of your estate, of your money, with PNC
17 Bank?
18 A Right.
19 Q Are you in favor of that?
20 A I'm in favor of him taking care of me and
21 watching over me and being solicitous of my needs, which
22 are not many, and I don't think there's any kickback on
23 that.
24 Q Do you understand that if your son and PNC
25 Bank is named, you may not have as much freedom as you had
36
before to spend the money that you have?
2 A But I'm not an expensive woman. I am a
3 graduate from a school of home economics, and I learned how
4 to do it and I learned this from my family before I ever
5 went to college.
6 MS. VERNEY: That's all I have, Judge.
7 MS. GERBER: I have a question.
8 THE COURT: You may redirect.
9 MS. VERNEY: If I might just get her cane.
10 THE COURT: You may.
11 THE WITNESS: I have it right here. Thank
12 you very much. If you all want to know what's wrong with
13 me or why I have this cane is that I've tripped and fell
14 going into my house and, you know, there's a piece of metal
15 under the door and it caught my shoe and it just threw me
16 with a great deal on the floor. I had to go into a
17 hospital and wait until I healed.
18 THE COURT: Okay.
19 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
20 BY MS. GERBER:
21 Q When you fell and broke your hip, mom, and
22 went into a hospital --
23 THE COURT: No, that was not on cross.
24 BY MS. GERBER:
25 Q Mom, have you been happy with the care I
37
1 have given you as a nurse?
2 THE COURT: That was not covered as part of
3 the --
4 MS. GERBER: She talked about her son.
5 THE COURT: No.
6 BY MS. GERBER:
7 Q Have you been -- when you helped me
8 financially, mom, because of my car accident, was that
9 something that you wanted to do?
10 THE COURT: That was not part of the cross
11 examination.
12 BY MS. GERBER:
13 Q Mom, how do you feel about giving up all
14 control and independence of the decisions on your money and
15 what to do with it and who to give it to? Are you
16 comfortable with that if that should happen or would you
17 like to retain independence to do what you want with your
18 life?
19 A No, I want help. I like Fred, the way Fred
20 deals with me, and how he explains it to me because he's -
21 worked with military families and he knows, you know, with
22 having a family of his own.
23 Q You made a comment that Fred does so much
24 for the military, but can you tell me what Fred has done
25 for you on a monthly basis in the last year?
38
1 THE COURT: No. No. Keep it -- you do not
2 have to answer, ma'am. Any further questions regarding the
3 cross examination?
4 BY MS. GERBER:
5 Q Can you tell me how you feel about your
6 three children?
7 THE COURT: No. That is it. Now, come on
8 up here and help her down. It was very nice meeting you,
9 and that hopefully was not as bad as you thought it might
10 be.
11 THE WITNESS: No, no.
12 MS. GERBER: Your Honor, can --
13 THE COURT: Keep quiet. Go ahead and help
14 her down.
15 THE COURT: Good-bye.
16 THE WITNESS: Thank you. Good-bye.
17 (Whereupon, the requested testimony
18 was completed.)
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20
21
22
23
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CERTIFICATION
2 I hereby certify that the proceedings are
3 contained fully and accurately in the notes taken by me on
4 the above cause and that this is a correct transcript of
5 same.
7
Pamela R. Sheaffe~
8 Official Court Reporter%~,/
9
10 The foregoing record of the proceedings on
11 the hearing of the within matter is hereby approved and
12 directed to be filed.
13
Date Edgar B.~Bay~ey, J.
16 Ninth Judici~ District
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