HomeMy WebLinkAbout04-21-08
INDEX TO WITNESSES
FOR THE AREA AGENCY ON AGING DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROS.
1. Dr. Kimberly Young
qualifications 5
Dr. Kimberly Young 7 11
2 . Betty Jane Schlusser 12 22 24 25
3. Jennifer Leigh Polites 26 32
4 . Linda Rae Julias 33 37
5. Denise Beecher 38
6. Christy Lynne Peyton 40 41
7 . Sandra D. Neely 45 48 50
8. Janet Paull 51 53
FOR THE RESPONDENT
1. Residential Lease
INDEX TO EXHIBITS
IDENTIFIED
22
ADMITTED
1 January 10, 2008, 3:08 p.m.
2 Carlisle, Pennsylvania
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4 (Whereupon, the following proceedings
5 were held:)
6 MR. DELUCA: Good afternoon, Your Honor.
7 THE COURT: Good afternoon.
8 MR. DELUCA: Your Honor, I have on the
9 telephone here Dr. Kimberly Young who is prepared to testify
10 in this matter involving Janette Neely.
11 THE COURT: And are you ready to proceed, Mr.
12 Daniels?
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19 you in here, if you will raise your right hand.
20 Whereupon,
21 DR. KIMBERLY YOUNG,
22 having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
23 (Whereupon, the following testimony was
24 taken via speakerphone.)
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MR. DANIELS: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: You have the doctor on the phone?
MR. DELUCA: Yes, I do, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Doctor, can you hear me?
THE WITNESS: It's very echoey.
THE COURT: My stenographer lS going to swear
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DIRECT EXAMINATION AS ON QUALIFICATIONS
BY MR. DELUCA:
Q What is your full name, please.
A Dr. Kimberly Young.
Q And how are you employed, Doctor?
A I'm a physician in Carlisle.
Q And where is your practice?
A It's at the Carlisle Barracks.
Q Would you please tell us where you attended
college and your date of graduation.
A I graduated from the University of South
Alabama Medical School in 1991.
Q And prior to that, what college did you
attend?
A Prior to that, I graduated with a BS from the
University of Maryland, College Park.
Q Doctor, did you receive any special training
subsequent to your graduation from medical school?
A Yes. I became board certified in family
medicine in 1994.
Q Where did you do your residency?
A University of Alabama in Huntsville, Alabama.
Q And for what period of time did you do your
residency?
A Internship is the first year and then two
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years of residency after that, so a total of three.
Q And do you have an area of particular
specialization?
A I pretty much do all family medicine. I have
many geriatric patients though.
Q Can you put a percentage of your practice
that's devoted to geriatrics?
A Probably around 50 percent.
Q Are you a member of any medical societies or
committees?
A I'm a member of the American Academy of
Family Practice and the local Pennsylvania chapter.
Q And are you licensed to practice medicine in
the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania?
A Absolutely.
Q Do you have any hospital affiliations?
A Not at this time.
MR. DELUCA: Your Honor, I would like to
offer Dr. Young as an expert in family medicine.
THE COURT: She may testify. If Mr. Daniels
has any questions on qualifications, you can do them
afterwards when you cross-examine.
MR. DANIELS: Yes, Your Honor.
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DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. DELUCA:
Q Dr. Young, are you familiar with a lady by
the name of Janette Neely?
A I sure am.
Q
A
Is she a patient of yours?
Yes, she is.
Q How long has she been a patient?
A Probably about five years. I've been at the
barracks for eight years, so it's about five or six years.
Q And, Doctor, how frequently do you see her?
A She actually comes to the clinic quite
frequently. I may see her once a month, once every other
month.
Q And have you noticed, Doctor, any changes in
her during the past, say, six months?
A She has been more confused, and when
confronted with that she gets somewhat combative.
Q Have you ever performed any mental status
tests on her?
A Not specifically, no.
Q
Has there been
did you have any kind of
concern regarding her driving a motor vehicle?
A Absolutely. She came to the clinic quite
agitated and said that her license had been revoked. She
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wasn't sure who had done it, but she wanted me to help her
get it back.
Q Did you have any concerns about her driving?
A Yes, I did. I had significant concerns, but
she's not the one who needed to be convinced which way she
should go so I had her officially tested.
Q And what were the results of the test?
A She failed the test with flying colors.
Q What were your concerns about her driving?
A Her reaction time was significantly impaired.
I was worried that she could potentially get lost and not
know where she thought she was going. I was worried that
she would have an accident, frankly, and hurt herself.
Q Doctor, did you have any concern regarding
dementia?
A Yes. I do think that she does, indeed, have
some dementia; and as I have known her, she has become less
attentive to her appearance.
Q Has she ever appeared at the clinic In a
disheveled manner?
A Recently almost always and sometimes somewhat
confused. She forgets to take her pills, and her blood
pressure is also very high. In fact, she's even had someone
that she's living with call in and say that her blood
pressure is very high, and it turns out that she just does
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not remember to take her medicine a lot or has decided she
doesn't need it.
I'm not sure which.
Q Doctor, I'm going to read you a legal
definition of an incapacitated person, and then I'm going to
ask you a couple of questions after that. An incapacitated
person means an adult whose ability to receive and evaluate
information effectively and communicate decisions in any way
is impaired to such a significant extent that he or she is
partially or totally unable to manage his or her financial
resources or to meet essential requirements for his or her
physical health and safety.
Doctor, do you have an opinion based upon a
reasonable degree of medical certainty as to whether her
condition is impaired to such a significant extent that she
would be partially or totally unable to manage her financial
resources?
A I do believe -- yes, it is my medical opinion
that she has significant impairment, and I am most
definitely concerned about her safety.
Q Thank you. Doctor, the same question, do you
have an opinion based upon a reasonable degree of medical
certainty that her condition is impaired to such a
significant extent that she is partially or totally unable
to meet essential requirements for her physical health and
safety?
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A Yes.
Q And what is that opinion?
A I do believe that she is unable to meet these
requirements.
Q Doctor, is there any probability that her
condition concerning confusion or dementia will improve in
the future?
A I am -- my medical opinion is that her
condition will remain stable or decrease slowly or rapidly;
but, no, I do not think that she will improve.
Q Doctor, in her present condition, lS Miss
Neely subject to undue influence by other people?
A I do feel that that is the case. I think she
relies heavily on the person that she has as a renter. She
also relies heavily on a neighbor lady that has sometimes
been the driver with Janette Neely's car to come and see me
at the clinic.
Q In your opinion, Doctor, can she be unduly
influenced by someone who does not have her best interests
at heart?
A Oh, I'm sure, you know, whoever she feels
like she trusts she's going to go with what they say; and if
they tell her the wrong thing, yes.
MR. DELUCA: Thank you, Doctor. Those are
all of the questions I have at this time. Mr. Daniels may
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have some for you.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. DANIELS:
Q Dr. Young, my name is Bill Daniels. I'm
representing the best interest of Mrs. Neely. I only have
one simple question for you concerning the last part of that
definition, and that is the opinion or assessment of her
ability to care for herself. You stated that she could not
maintain her safety due to her physical condition. Is that
true or not?
A I do feel that that is true. The examples of
that I have would be her not taking her medicines even when
it's been stressed how important that is for her. I'm
worried she might have a stroke. And also I'm very worried
about her having no license but yet insisting that she needs
to drive and decides that even though she's been pulled,
that she is not capable of driving, but go ahead and drive
anyway at night.
Q I think you also indicated that she was
susceptible to the influence of the person living with her.
Is that true?
A Yes, it sure is.
Q And that relates to her physical safety?
A Yes. Yes, it does.
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Q I just have one last question. Do you have
any indication that she can't handle the activities of daily
living?
A Grooming is part of daily living, and I know
that she has problems with that. She seems capable of
cleaning herself. I'm not sure how clean she keeps herself
though.
Q Okay. Do you have any problem with her being
able to walk or transfer from a chair, that kind of thing,
respond to an emergency in the home?
A She seems to be able to walk around fine.
However, she recently has had some falls. So I do have a
little bit of concern there.
MR. DANIELS: Thank you very much, Dr. Young.
THE COURT: Anything else?
MR. DELUCA: No, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Doctor, you are excused. Thank
you. Next.
Whereupon,
BETTY JANE SCHLUSSER,
having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. DELUCA:
Q What is your name, please.
A Betty Jane Schlusser.
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Q And where do you live, Mrs. Schlusser?
A 55 Campground Road, Carlisle.
Q Are you acquainted with Janette Neely?
A I've been friends with Janette Neely for
about 25 years.
Q And are you also her attorney-in-fact, her
power of attorney?
A Yes.
Q And is there anyone else who is also power of
attorney with you?
A Yes, Harold Casner.
Q And when were you appointed her
attorney-in-fact?
A 2005. I'm not sure what month.
Q How frequently do you see Janette?
A I see Janette about once a week, but I do try
to talk to her about every other day on the phone.
Q Have you noticed any change in her, say, over
the last six months or so?
A I've noticed a big change In Janette in the
last SlX months, yes.
Q What is that change?
A She just doesn't have the memory that she
used to have.
Q Is she subject to more confusion?
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A She's more confused. If I do talk to her
about something, it seems it only lasts about 20 minutes,
her memory, of what we have discussed.
Q And, Miss Schlusser, are you familiar with
her financial affairs?
A I'm familiar with some of her financial
affairs.
Q Does she own any real estate?
A She owns property on 231 North Bedford
Street, Carlisle. She owns a property at 245 West Willow
Street and her home at 59 North East Street. She has a
cabin also. Yeah, she has a cabin.
Q Where is the cabin located?
A It's in Blain.
Q Blain in Perry County?
A In Perry County, yes.
Q Is there a more recent property in Herndon?
A Yes, yes. I'm sorry, I forgot about that.
Yes, she had purchased a home, as best of my knowledge, in
August of 2007 in Herndon, PA.
Q Where is Herndon located?
A Herndon, PA, is above Halifax on Route 147,
about an hour and 45 minutes from here.
Q In Dauphin County?
A In Northumberland.
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Q With respect to the two properties, other
than her residence here in Carlisle, are they rental
properties?
A They are rental properties. However, I
couldn't even tell you who's living in them because when I
ask Janette she doesn't even know. So I don't even know
what for income is coming from them, if any.
Q Have you made an effort either now or in the
past to collect the rents for Janette?
A When I became Janette's power of attorney in
2005, she was having a problem collecting the rent at the
time, and I said we need to do leases on your properties.
So she agreed and I went and I took leases to -- at the time
she had a third floor tenant In her property at 59 North
East Street, and then Neil Hall is on the second floor
apartment at 59 North East Street.
The Willow Street property she had a lady
living there already, and the Bedford Street property she
told me that she would handle that. She did not want me
doing that. So I never had anything to do with Bedford
Street. I gave the leases to these people.
The first month that I went to collect, the
guy on the third floor paid. And when I went to the second
floor apartment, which is Neil Hall, he came out of the
apartment and just got very angry and frustrated. And
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Janette was standing at the bottom of the steps, and he said
I had already paid her and she knows that. It got into a
very ugliness, and Miss Neely said don't worry about him.
She said, I'll collect it.
So the house on Willow Street I did collect.
As of February of 2006, the lady moved out, and I faithfully
collected that. The lady mailed it to me. And I developed
a relationship with Denise at Sovereign Bank through taking
this money in, and I deposited that every month. I called
Janette to let her know the money was there.
However, the lady had moved out. She was
there for a year. And I couldn't tell you anything who's
living there now because at the time of -- when this Denise
moved out of the house on Willow Street, I asked Janette if
she wanted to rent it or to sell it. She, in fact, said she
definitely wanted to sell it.
So I got a real estate agent to list the
home, and we had a buyer for it like two days after we
listed it. And then all of a sudden through Neil talking to
her he thought I was totally taking advantage of her, and
she wasn't selling it anymore. And for five months she
wouldn't even talk to me over it.
And then one day I came home, and there's a
message on my phone. She wanted to know if I was still mad
at her. And I called her back, and that's when we started
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talking again and everything. But Neil just had her
convinced that I was no good for her.
Q Now, when you had a buyer for this Willow
Street home, do you recall what the price was for the house?
A We listed it if I'm -- I'm thinking we listed
it for eighty-three nine, and I think the offer came in at
seventy-nine, something like that. It might not be the
exact figures, but it's close to that, which was a very fair
price for the home because her properties are all getting in
very rundown condition from no maintenance.
Q But that sale was quashed then?
A It was quashed because of Neil Hall.
Q Now, have you had any more recent dealings
with Neil Hall?
A I haven't -- I mean, I don't really have any
recent dealings with him other than when I -- every time you
call her house he answers the phone, and you can always hear
him in the background telling her what to say and he's just
a -- he influences everything she does.
Q Now, did there come a time recently where you
had great concern about a mortgage transaction involving
Janette?
A Yes. December 5th I had received a call from
Denise at Sovereign Bank, notified me of a suspicious wire
with a large -- a substantial amount of money from Reverse
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1 Mortgage Company. I had called -- I had called Mr. Daniels
2 right away about it.
3 And then I got another call that same day
4 from Sovereign Bank asking me if I could -- if there's any
5 way possible that I could have Janette at Wachovia Bank the
6 next morning at 9:00 because there had already been a 98,000
7 some dollar check taken from Sovereign Bank and deposited
8 into Wachovia, and before anyone got the money they wanted
9 me to get there with her to try to retrieve this. Well,
10 then also that same -- later that day another $30,000.00
11 check had been written out and put into Members 1st Bank.
12 So fearing Neil Hall, I hired Kevin Preston,
13 a constable, to go with me the following morning to
14 Janette's house to go along with -- to pick her up to take
15 her to the bank to try to recover this money. And I called
16 her, no answer. I knocked on her doors and I couldn't --
17 the doors were locked. I couldn't get In.
18 So Kevin and myself had went to Wachovia Bank
19 and did as much -- we took -- Police Officer Fones from the
20 police department in Carlisle here went with us out.
21 Needless to say, we couldn't really do anything about it
22 without Janette, other than they filed the report and
23 everything.
24 Mr. Preston and myself went back to Janette's
25 home from the bank, and we did finally get a hold of her.
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She was bathing her dog. She had no recollection at all
that she was supposed to go with me that morning.
I guess what I should have said first, she
was bathing her dog when we got back, and she left us in. I
explained to her what had happened with the reverse mortgage
and everything, and she was in total shock. She was, like,
I never did anything like that. I said, yes, you did. You
know, it was her signature indeed on everything.
She got dressed, and we took her to Sovereign
Bank. And that's when they showed everything to her. And
we went from there then, and we did retrieve the
$130,000.00. The hundred thousand from Wachovia, that was a
joint account in Neil Hall's name and hers. We got every
dime back from there and closed the account.
I went to Members 1st with Janette, and we
got the $30,000.00 check back and there was -- it was a
savings in her name only. We got the 30,000, and there was
700 and some odd cents still there. We took the checks, and
I took them right away back to Linda at Sovereign Bank; and
that's where they are right now.
Q What was the total amount of money that you
received on the reverse mortgage, if you know?
A The total amount was 151,000 is what I was
told. I mean, it was 151,000, and then there was a penalty
fee or something.
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Q Do you know what the net proceeds check was?
A VOICE: One thirty-eight.
THE WITNESS: Yeah, it was 138,000 and some
odd cents until everything was taken off of it, I guess, for
the processing or whatever they do.
BY MR. DELUCA:
Q
How old is Janette?
A Eight-six.
Q How old is Neil?
A To the best of my knowledge, Neil Hall is 50
or 51. He actually went to school with me, and I'm 51. So
I would guess he's 51.
Q Does he describe himself as a business
partner of hers?
A Neil doesn't say a whole lot to me. He has
told other people that. He kind of -- I don't know, he just
doesn't really say a whole lot to me.
Q When you had the conversation with Janette
and you told her about this reverse mortgage, she indicated
to you that she didn't know anything about it?
A No. She still -- she still says she has no
recollection of that whatsoever. And I said, don't you
recall people coming right to your house, you know, and
sitting down with you? And she says no.
Q Do you subsequently become aware of a second
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reverse mortgage scenario?
A I did. I stopped her mail from going to the
house. I went to the post office with her. We filled out
the paperwork because I just didn't want him getting -- Neil
Hall getting his hands on her mail, and I've been collecting
it ever since. And when I do go to get it, I take it right
to Mr. Daniels. And through that process, we came across
another -- he had had her do another reverse mortgage on her
home.
Q And during the course of receiving the mail,
did you become aware of credit card bills and other bills
that she had?
A Yes. There's a Dish Network bill that I
have, an AT&T mobile phone. There's a Citibank or some kind
of credit card bill. However, that was -- it was $1,700.00,
and it was for carpet. And Janette -- I asked her if they
had put new carpet in the home on Willow Street, and she
said they did. So that was what that was for.
Q Do you know whether any of them -- those
bills were for Mr. Neil, Neil Hall?
A The AT&T and the Dish Network definitely is
because she wasn't even aware she had it. Another thing I
have been getting is a lot of parking tickets for -- Janette
had purchased a car for Neil probably roughly about three
years ago. It's in her name. She puts the gas in it. She
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1 does everything, pays the insurance and everything on it.
2 And I don't know why but he parked it, you know, places
3 that I've been paying parking tickets for it. There's like
4 seven parking tickets I have just for that car.
5
Q
Mrs. Schlusser, if the Court were to find she
6 lS an incapacitated person, would you be able to assist in
7 the future in helping her?
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A
I will do whatever I can to help her.
MR. DELUCA: That's all I have.
THE COURT: Mr. Daniels.
11 CROSS EXAMINATION
12 BY MR. DANIELS:
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Q
Mrs. Schlusser, we have worked together on
14 this, and I'm not trying to beat the drum here. I do want
15 to clarify the management that you were handling prior to
16 the March falling-out because of the attempted sale of the
17 property. You had a lease prepared?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Does this look like the lease that you had
20 prepared?
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A
Yes, yes.
MR. DANIELS: Want to mark that for me,
23 please. I have copies, Your Honor.
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(Whereupon, Respondent's Exhibit No.1
was marked for identification.)
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BY MR. DANIELS:
2
Q That lease you obtained during the course of
your managerial work under the power of attorney?
A Urn-hum, yes.
Q And that lease did establish Mr. Hall as a
tenant, is that right?
A Yes. Yes, it did.
Q And subsequent to that, there has been no
collection?
A I have never received anything from Neil.
Q You did indicate that you would be willing to
help in the future?
A Yes.
Q With regard to Mrs. Neely's care?
A Yes.
Q To enable her to have the least restrictive
position of loss of independence?
A Most definitely.
Q And there are other friends of yours and hers
that are likely to do the same?
A Urn-hum.
Q Have you been intimidated by Mr. Hall?
A I have. Like I said, when I had went in the
first month to collect the rent from him, I saw a side to
him that just -- like I said, I just -- I don't trust him at
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all any more to even go in there. He was just violent.
Q Well, is it fair to say that that has
inhibited your ability to assist Mrs. Neely during the
course of the last six months or thereabouts?
A Oh, it definitely has. Because, like I said,
I'm just I fear to even go in there. That's why I took
the constable with me, you know, to even take her to the
banks.
Q Do you have any oplnlon about her ability to
handle her daily activities of living?
A As of right now, I think she does fine, I
really do. I think it's the undue influence that Neil Hall
has on her right now.
MR. DANIELS: I have no other questions.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. DELUCA:
Q You heard the doctor question her ability to
take her medication.
A I did hear that.
Q And you agree that the confusion lS becoming
more serious?
A I've seen it, yes, increase.
Q And as that would increase, that would
ultimately affect her ability to take care of herself In a
safe way?
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A I'm sure it will, yeah.
Q Just one other question I forgot to ask you.
Do you have any idea what her monthly income is?
A She gets $604.00 social security. She gets
$689.00 from American Investors Life. It's an annuity. I'm
not sure how much longer she receives that though. And as
far as her rent, like I said, I'm totally unaware of what
I know what she could be getting, but she obviously isn't
getting it.
Q What could she be getting?
A The Willow Street property, when I was
collecting it, she was getting $625.00 a month. Bedford
Street she has she has had three different guys living
there at $85.00 a week. Neil's apartment on the lease that
is laying right here, he was supposed to be giving her 550 a
month, and the third floor apartment she was getting 350.
MR. DELUCA: Thank you.
RECROSS EXAMINATION
2
BY MR. DANIELS:
Q Excuse me, Betty, one other question. With
regard to that March falling-out earlier last year, what was
the intent of considering the sale of that property? Did it
relate to the management of the rentals and Mrs. Neely's
condition at that time?
A You mean what would happen with the money had
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she followed through?
Q Having to do with the initiation of the
rental, did that figure into your attempt to help her manage
her affairs?
2
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A Yes.
Q And this was born of her decreasing ability
to manage these rentals?
A Yes.
Q And her financial affairs?
A Yes. That was my whole objective, was to
take over and collect all of her rent money and have it for
her is why I wanted to do that for her, to be guaranteed she
did have that income.
THE COURT: You may step down.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
THE COURT: Next.
Whereupon,
JENNIFER LEIGH POLITES,
having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. DELUCA:
Q What is your full name, please.
A Jennifer Leigh Polites.
Q And how are you employed?
A
I'm employed by American Home Bank, Beacon
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1 Reverse Mortgage.
2
Q Where is that located?
A Hempland Road in Mountville, Pennsylvania.
Q How long have you done this type of work?
A Just short of a year.
Q And are you what they would call a reverse
3
mortgage specialist?
A Yes, I am.
Q Would you please tell us what is a reverse
mortgage?
A A reverse mortgage is for seniors, people 62
and older. We use the equity of their home in order to give
them either a line of credit, lump sum, cash to provide for
their well-being, whether it's to pay medical bills, travel.
They may use the money to do whatever they want.
Q Did you receive a call or were you contacted
by Janette Neely?
A No. I was contacted by Neil Hall.
Q Neil Hall?
A Yes.
Q And when were you contacted by Neil Hall?
A I was contacted -- the exact date would have
been December 12th. I believe it's a Thursday.
THE COURT: What year?
THE WITNESS: 2007.
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BY MR. DELUCA:
Q December 12th or thereabouts. Just about a
month ago?
A Yes.
Q And can you -- for what purpose?
A He contacted me stating that he wanted to
look into a reverse mortgage. He wanted a fixed rate. He
was very adamant about a fixed rate reverse mortgage. So he
knew what he was talking about. He wasn't inquiring about a
reverse mortgage. He knew what type of mortgage he wanted.
He told me -- if you will, just let me grab
my notes here one second. He told me that he was inquiring
for his business partner, who is Janette Neely, and that
they had started a reverse mortgage with another lender,
which was First Preference Mortgage; and they stopped that
mortgage because that lender was putting them into an
adjustable rate when they, in fact, wanted a fixed rate.
I said that was fine. I said, I have fixed
rate reverse mortgages available. I said, let me take some
information. I did my preliminary address, value of the
home. Is there any mortgages, tax, liens, that type of
thing. Did my comparisons. Asked him if I could mail that
out. He said, well, I want to make an appointment with you.
He said, you do in fact have a fixed rate? I said, yes. So
this was Thursday.
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Monday morning at 9:00 I had an appointment
with him and -- with him and Janette, I should say, at
Janette's house because with a reverse mortgage we do
everything in their homes. He told me that they had already
gone through the reverse mortgage counseling which is a
requirement for a reverse mortgage. I said, great. I said,
if you have the original counseling certificate, I will need
that. I'll need copies of driver's license, social security
card, homeowner insurance.
That Monday morning when I was there,
Carlisle had their ice storm. So there was no power at
Janette's house. So I left there -- if I can back up a
minute. I took the application. I met with her. Was going
through the application.
At that time she said to me, boy, this is an
awful lot of papers. And I said, yes, I said, Janette, I
2
3
said, you're doing a reverse mortgage. I said,
to understand what it is that we're doing here,
started going on to explain.
And Neil was sitting in the chair to my
right; and he stepped in and said, just sign the papers,
I need you
and I
Janette, you know what we're doing with the money. And I
put my hand up to him. I said, I'm sorry, I said, but I
really need my client to understand the type of mortgage
that we're doing because it does affect her. It affects her
29
1 home.
2 And at that point he lit a cigarette and just
3 sat over there and did his thing, and she signed the rest of
4 the papers. I explained it to her. I asked if she
5 understood. She said yes, and she signed the rest of the
6 papers.
7 At that point red flags were coming up to me
8 as to she really does not understand what we're doing
9 because she didn't ask questions that I typically get asked
10 when I'm in front of people.
11 Usually I also request that children,
12 attorneys, CPA's, anybody that they trust, that my clients
13 trust, because they're 62 and older, I want somebody else
14 there other than just them. He told me he was her business
15 partner. I did not know about the daughter until I was
16 actually at the house because I did ask for a living
17 relative.
18 I was just not having good vibes when I was
19 taking the application. I let her go through professionally
20 and sign the rest of the documents, but at that point I just
21 basically ended everything because I knew I was going no
22 further with this. I simply just thanked them, and I told
23 them I would be back in touch with them.
24 I told Neil because of the electricity not
25 being on that I would need the copies of the counseling
30
1 certificate, the homeowner's insurance, and her driver's
2 license and things like that. He did provide all that to me
3 except the counseling certificate.
4
Q
Did you subsequently determine that there had
5 been a prior reverse mortgage?
6
A
Absolutely. What I did -- when he said that
7 they had stopped the reverse mortgage and the counseling
8 certificate was with the original loan officer, I asked for
9 her name and phone number. He gave that to me, and I
10 called. It was a Terry at First Preference Mortgage. And
11 in speaking with Terry, found out that the reverse mortgage
12 was actually closed, not just in process. It was actually
13 closed the day after Thanksgiving 2007.
14
Q
So he had indicated to you that it was In the
15 process of closing when, in fact, it had been closed?
16
A
When he cancelled it. He did not give me any
17 indication whatsoever that it actually closed, that he was
18 canceling it prior to that. When, in fact, after speaking
19 with Terry I found out that it was already funded.
20
Q
And you didn't go through with this, you
21 were concerned about her confusion?
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A
Absolutely.
MR. DELUCA: That's all I have, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Mr. Daniels.
31
1 CROSS EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. DANIELS:
3
Q
You remember we spoke on the phone about the
4 time that the papers had arrived concerning the application
5 for this second one?
6
7
A
Q
Yes.
And you discovered that there was a first
8 reverse mortgage?
9
10
A
Q
Correct.
And at that time you decided to have no more
11 to do with it, is that right?
12
A
At that time we -- yeah, we were pulling out
13 because you can't do two reverse mortgages.
14
Q
So it was finished at that time because you
15 had learned that there was one on the books already?
16
17
A
Q
Right.
And your antenna kind of went off because of
18 the overbearing nature of Mr. Hall?
19
A
I was very concerned because when I was
20 sitting there we were kind of -- we weren't even sitting at
21 a table. She was signing papers on her lap on a folder; and
22 he kept interrupting and speaking for her, if you will, and
23 that concerned me a little bit because I wanted to talk to
24 her because every time I called there I spoke to him. I
25 never truly got to talk to her except the day that I was
32
1 there.
~
L
Q
And it was at your initiative that another
3 person was put on the application?
4
A
No, nobody else was on the application, just
5 Janette because she is the only one who has title to that.
6
7
8
Q
As next of kin I meant.
A
Oh, yes. Well, that's part of my application
process. I must ask for
I must ask for
I can tell you
9 exactly what it says here. Alternate contact person.
10 However that day, because of my concern for Janette, I asked
11 for a living relative.
12
13
MR. DANIELS: Thank you.
THE COURT: Ma'am, you are excused. You may
14 stay or leave as you wish.
15
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
16 Whereupon,
17 LINDA RAE JULIAS,
18 having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
19 DIRECT EXAMINATION
20 BY MR. DELUCA:
21
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Q
What is your name, please.
A
Linda Rae Julias.
Q
And how are you employed?
A
I'm employed with Sovereign Bank.
Q
And what is your position there with
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Sovereign Bank?
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
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Q
Community assistant manager.
And what is the address of your bank?
17 West High Street, Carlisle, PA.
Are you familiar with Janette Neely?
Yes.
Is she here today?
Yes, she is.
Point her out, please.
Right there.
Next to Mr. Daniels?
Yes.
Has she been a customer of your bank?
She's been a customer of ours since 2004.
And do you see her on a fairly regular basis?
She does come in fairly regular.
You've heard the testimony. You've been
present here and have heard the testimony so far?
A Yes.
Q And you heard Mrs. Schlusser testify?
A Yes.
Q Would you please tell the Court your
recollection of the events regarding this 130 some thousand
dollars.
A I think it was December the 3rd, and Janette
34
1 had came into the bank and she usually goes to Denise
2 and
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Q
A
Excuse me. That's December 3rd of '07?
Pardon?
Q December 3rd of '07?
A Yeah. And Denise had seen that she had
like -- had gotten a wiring for $138,119.92; and, you know,
it was just really odd that she was getting that. And we
asked her do you know why you got this money, and she said
she didn't.
And so I called the back office because, you
know, I had no idea where it came from. Found out it came
from Metropolitan Agency, which is a settlement company in
York. I called them. Found out that she did a reverse
mortgage. I think she had went home at that time.
The next day Betty and Janette came in, and I
told her, you know, this was a reverse mortgage that she
did. And truly she didn't even know what a reverse mortgage
was, you know. She said, I would have never done anything
like that. So I kept -- we kept watching the account.
The next day, it was the 4th, I seen there
was a check taken out of the account for $97,608.65. It
went to Wachovia Bank. Found out that it went into an
account down at Wachovia that had Janette's and Neil Hall's
name on it. The next day there was a $30,000.00 check that
35
1 was taken out, and it went to Members 1st.
2 At that point there was like 9,000 something
3 in there, and we just wanted to get the money out so that he
4 didn't take any more of it. So we took the money out and
5 held it in a check. Called Wachovia Bank and Members 1st to
6 work with them. We did get the money back, and we are
7 holding it for her now.
8
9 or one?
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Q
And are there two checks that you're holding
A
Q
A
Q
A
Two checks.
And they're payable to whom?
Janette.
Only to her?
Right. When I called, I called the
15 settlement agent and I said we have a mutual customer, and I
16 said I think she's a little confused. And right away, I
17 didn't even say her name, she said, oh, let me tell you,
18 Neely. I said, yes.
19
Q
Have you noticed her becoming more confused,
20 say, in the last six months or so?
21
A
She does. Her demeanor is completely
22 different I think. There's a softer edge to her, for
23 whatever reason. She does forget things. The one time I
24 had -- not last week, I had needed a copy of her military
25 ID. So it was icy out that day. So I called her, and she
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said, well, I can't come up, it's icy. I said, all right,
I'll drive down and get you and bring you up. So, you know,
I said, I'll do it right now.
So I went down, picked her up, brought her
We were in the bank, and I was making a copy of
She said, urn -- she said, I think Denise, she said,
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back up.
her ID.
Neil brought me up here, you know, and that was just a few
minutes ago. I truly don't know if she's on any kind of a
medication that would make her like that or anything, you
know. I don't know.
MR. DELUCA: Thank you.
THE COURT: Mr. Daniels.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. DANIELS:
Q Just one question, Ms. Julias. Have you
observed Mrs. Neely in the presence of Mr. Hall?
A I have never seen him at all.
Q He hasn't come into the bank?
A He came In one time. I think Denise was
there when he came in. He came in ranting and raving
because she was taking too long.
Q Did he cause any kind of a commotion?
A He -- I wasn't there. So I don't know. You
know, I think most people are just scared to death of him.
THE COURT: You are excused. You may leave
37
1 or stay.
2 Whereupon,
3 DENISE BEECHER,
4 having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
5 DIRECT EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. DELUCA:
7
8
9
10
Q
A
Q
A
What is your name, please.
Denise Beecher.
And how are you employed?
I'm a customer service representative at
11 Sovereign Bank.
12 THE COURT: I'm going to just let you talk
13 right into that microphone. You can pull it right over
14 towards you.
15 BY MR. DELUCA:
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Q Do you work at the same branch as Ms. Julias?
A I do, 17 West High Street.
Q You are familiar with Janette?
A Um-hum.
Q How frequently do you see her?
A Not as much as we used to. She used to be In
22 a couple times a day, but lately it's been less. Maybe once
23 a two weeks.
24
25
Q
A
Do you notice any difference In her?
Big difference.
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Q
What is that difference?
A
She's confused, a lot more docile than she
3 used -- she was -- she could be pretty firey but lately
4 she's just --
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8 Neil Hall?
9
Q
More confused?
A
Yeah.
Q
Has she ever expressed to you concern about
A
She did tell me one time she had a couple
10 bruises, and she said he roughed her up a little.
11
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Q
Do you know when that was?
A
I'm going to say a year ago.
Q
Has he come into the bank with her?
A
Usually not. A lot of times he'll call. He
15 did come in one day because she was taking too long. He
16 came in the back door. We have a front and back door. He
17 came in the back door up the hallway cussing the whole way
18 she better get to the car or he was leaving without her.
19 And he has done that, dropped her off, and then she'll go
20 out to the parking lot and he's gone; and then I guess she
21 just walked home.
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MR. DELUCA: That's all I have, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Mr. Daniels.
MR. DANIELS: Thank you, Denise.
THE WITNESS: You're welcome.
39
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THE COURT: You too are excused if you wish
2 to be.
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THE WITNESS: Thank you.
Whereupon,
CHRISTY LYNNE PEYTON,
having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. DELUCA:
Q What is your name, please.
A Christy Lynne Peyton.
Q And how are you employed?
A Metropolitan Settlement Agency.
THE COURT: Spell your last name, please.
THE WITNESS: P-e-y-t-o-n.
BY MR. DELUCA:
Q Did your agency conduct the settlement on the
reverse mortgage?
A Yes, we did.
Q What was the date of settlement?
A The day after Thanksgiving, November 19th,
2007.
Q And where was it held?
A At Janette Neely's home.
Q And what was the amount of the reverse
mortgage?
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The full amount is -- this is a bad copy. It
A
2 looks likes $138,119.02.
3
Q
And were there deductions taken from that?
A What they do is they roll the closing costs
into it and show the full amount on the mortgage document
but not on the settlement sheet, so the mortgage amount it
looks the same as the actual proceeds, which was 138,119 as
well.
Q That is the amount of the mortgage?
A Correct.
Q And is that the amount that she received?
A Yes, it is. Yes.
Q Do you know what the closing costs were?
A According to this, and again it's hard to
read the total number, it looks like $9,406.30 is what they
list as closing costs.
Q And that is part of the overall mortgage?
A Correct.
Q Total amount?
A Correct.
MR. DELUCA: That's all I have.
THE COURT: Mr. Daniels.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. DANIELS:
Q Miss Peyton, you indicated to me that you
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went to the house twice?
A That is correct.
Q The first reason that you couldn't settle was
why?
A The first reason, when I got there I sat
down. Janette wasn't in the room. It took her a few
minutes to come in. She was taking care of the dog. As
soon as she sat down, we started going over the settlement
sheet. We were showing that there was a payoff to an M&T
Bank; and she said, wait a minute, I don't owe any money to
M&T Bank on this house. I owe M&T Bank on the house with
the horses.
I said, well, according to the lender, what
they have given us as paperwork, they have M&T being paid
off. So I looked through my folder and pulled out the M&T
statement that they had faxed over with the payoff amount,
and it did list a different property address.
So then I proceeded to call Terry at First
Preference, and apparently there was a mistake. When they
pulled the credit report, they saw that there was M&T Bank.
They just assumed it was on this property. When we actually
showed them the statement with the different property
address, then they took it back to the lender and got that
waived. So we had to wait for that process to occur.
Q So you returned a second time, and you
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completed the settlement for this reverse mortgage?
A That is correct.
Q This was at the home in the presence of whom?
A In the presence of Janette, and Neil Hall was
there both times.
Q Now, I'm going to show you an agreement here
and ask you if you saw that at the time?
A I did not see the partnership agreement.
After the first time that I went to the home, I placed a
phone call to reschedule for me to go back up; and normally
when we called we either talked to both Janette and Neil or
just Neil.
The second time I called Neil had answered
the phone, and he indicated that Janette was going to be
going hunting but that he had a partnership agreement that
allowed him to sign any documentation. And I told him that
a partnership agreement is not doable, that in order to sign
any legal documentation as far as a mortgage goes it would
have to be a legal power of attorney specific to the real
estate; and if he had something along those lines, we would
have to have that approved by the lender. And he said, no,
it was a partnership agreement; and I said, then you can't
sign, she must sign.
Q So he attempted to sign for her but
eventually --
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A He definitely attempted to.
Q One other question and my last question. You
were familiar with that mandated counseling period for
reverse mortgages?
A I was informed of that by the lender. That's
usually set up and done with the lender, not by the
settlement agency.
Q But before you closed on that, did you know
that there had been a certificate --
A Yes.
Q -- of counseling?
A Terry had called me and said that they
completed I say they, that Janette completed her
counseling, that she did speak to Neil, and everyone was
satisfied and they were going through with the mortgage.
Q After all of that and the procedural nature
of getting reverse mortgages for folks over 62 on their home
residence, did you feel that Mrs. Neely was in the driver's
seat on this thing or did you feel that she was being
A I felt that she understood at the time what
she was signing. I mean, she did ask me questions. She had
stopped the first process by explaining that this house did
not have a mortgage on it.
I think that there were moments of confusion,
and when she had that moment, Neil would pipe up and say,
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remember this is to do the roof or this is to buy the
investment property; and she'd say, oh, yes, yes, I
remember, and then she proceeded to sign.
Q So she was prompted continually then?
A Yeah.
MR. DANIELS: Thank you.
THE COURT: You are excused, ma'am.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
Whereupon,
SANDRA D. NEELY,
having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. DELUCA:
Q What is your name, please.
A Sandra D. Neely.
Q And where do you live?
A 3090 Spring Road in Carlisle.
Q And you are the daughter of Janette?
A Yes.
Q Are there any other siblings, children?
A No, I'm an only child.
Q Miss Neely, I just have one or two questions
and that's it. In the event that the Court were to find
your mother is an incapacitated person, would you be willing
to help in her care or where she would live?
45
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A
Yes.
o
L
Q
And daily activities and things of that
3 nature?
4
A
Yes.
~
~
Q
One of the concerns here is Mr. Hall. Do you
6 share those concerns too?
7
A
Absolutely. I don't think any of this would
8 be happening if it weren't for him.
9
Q
And, I'm sorry, I don't mean to upset you.
10 Are you aware of any comments or threats that Mr. Hall may
11 have made towards your mother?
12
A
I know there were a couple of times when
13 she -- specifically one time she called me because she said
14 he tried to push her down the stairs. And I went in to
15 confront him, and he would not answer the door. All of the
16 lights were off in his apartment like he wasn't there, and
17 we knew he was up there because you have to go through the
18 front of my mother's house to leave.
19 And I wanted her to leave with me at that
20 time and she wouldn't. She was going to the cabin, and she
21 had some stuff that she wanted to get together before she
22 left. And so then I was working and went back to work, and
23 then she left and went to the cabin. That was the most
24 recent incident.
25 Before that -- he usually doesn't do anything
46
1 right ln front of me. So I have come to realize that that
2 makes a difference. And I have tried to like wait
3 downstairs and have Shannon, my daughter, go up, or
4 something like that, to get mom, or something like that.
5 And there was one time in particular that I
6 went over and her car was parked out on the street for some
7 reason, and she said that Neil had been using it. And it
8 had a ticket on it, and she didn't even have keys to get it.
9 So she went up to get the keys from him and
10 he -- I don't know if she was disturbing him or what was
11 going on with him, but he wouldn't give her the keys; and
12 she kept saying I need the keys to the car right now.
13 And I guess she put her foot against his door
14 so that he couldn't slam the door; and he said to her, I
15 will choke you to death if you ever put your foot In my door
16 again. And I started to come up the steps, at which point
17 he gave her the keys and closed the door.
18
Q
What was the time frame for both of those
19 incidents?
20
A
The pushing her down the stairs would have
21 been right around hunting season because she was going over
22 to the cabin.
23
24
Q
A
November or December of last year?
Yeah, of '07. And the incident with the car
25 was probably two or three maybe weeks prior to that. Now,
47
1 there have been other instances where she has said that
2 she's fallen, only we've -- there's been too many times when
3 it seems like Neil has been involved in that in some way,
4 shape or form. So that what seems to be happening is not
5 necessarily that she's falling. I do, in fact, think that
6 he has pushed her or whatever the case may be.
7
Q
Were you aware of the purchase of this
8 property in Herndon?
9
A
No, not until after it happened. So, yes, I
10 was, but not until after the purchase had already happened.
11 And when I asked my mother about it, she told me that she
12 paid for it. It was in her name. It was her property.
13 That Neil was going to do the work of fixing it up inside
14 and then it was to be sold; and he was to get a portion of
15 it, and all the rest was to be hers.
16
MR. DELUCA: That's all I have.
17 CROSS EXAMINATION
18 BY MR. DANIELS:
19
Q
Sandy, I think the important thing here is
20 that we have not come to demean your mom. We have come here
21 to help her.
22
23
A
Q
Right.
And I think she understands that. One of the
24 concerns, of course, is to avoid any further threatening
25 behavior physically or mentally or otherwise.
48
1 A Right.
r, Q And I understand that you are willing to
L..
3 pinch hit and help.
4 A Yes.
5 Q If there is an appointed guardian of the
6 person, you will be willing to help with her other friend,
7 Harold Casner, to take care of her.
S A Yeah, whatever we need to do.
9 Q This would be so she could maintain her
10 pattern of living.
11 A Yeah, absolutely.
12 Q Now, she has a pet, is that right?
13 A Oh, yeah.
14 Q And she has what is the pet?
15 A She has a dog.
16 Q And she has horses?
17 A Yes. The horses are at my house.
18 Q That she seeks to enjoy and care for?
19 A Yes.
20 Q And --
21 A Now, before her driver -- before she was not
22 supposed to be driving, she came out almost every single
23 day, you know.
24 Q You have no qualms about being able to handle
25 this --
49
1
A
No.
o
L
-- to enable her to retain some independence
Q
3 as long as her safety and health is preserved?
4
Right.
A
5 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. DELUCA:
7
Sandra, you would work in conjunction with
Q
8 the Office of Aging or Keystone Guardian Services along
9 those lines?
10
I didn't get the first part of it.
A
11
Q
I said you would be willing to work then with
12 the Office of Aging or Keystone Guardian Services along
13 those lines that you and Bill just talked about?
14
A
Yes.
15
MR. DELUCA: That's all.
16
THE COURT: You may step down.
17
MR. DELUCA: One last witness, Your Honor.
18
THE COURT: I don't want to take a break.
19 Swear her in. I am just going to step off the bench. I
20 don't want to take a break. I will be right back.
21
Whereupon,
22
JANET PAULL,
23
having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
24
25
50
1 DIRECT EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. DELUCA:
-,
-:'
4
5
6
Q
What is your name, please.
A
Janet Paull.
Q
And how are you employed?
A
I'm a protective services investigator and
7 guardianship care manager for the Cumberland County Office
8 of Aging.
9
10 Janette Neely?
11
12
Q
And are you assigned this case involving
A
Yes, I am.
Q
And you have signed the petition that is the
13 subject of this matter today, is that correct?
14
15
A
That's correct.
Q
Is the information that's contained therein
16 true to the best of your knowledge?
17
18
A
Yes, it is.
Q
If the office -- if the Cumberland County
19 Aging and Community Services was appointed as emergency
20 plenary guardian of the person and the estate of Janette
21
Neely, would you
would the office be willing to let Miss
22 Neely stay at her home and live as independently as possible
23 so long as her health and safety and welfare are not
24 impaired?
25
A
Yes, we would. It's the goal of the agency
51
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1.
to allow the person to remain in the least restrictive
setting as long as they are safe.
Q So that if Betty Schlusser and her daughter,
Sandra Neely, and other people were the support for her and
could provide that support, that would be okay with the
office?
L:
.3
A Yes. And if necessary, we could supplement
with in-home services too.
Q So it would not be the intention to place her
in a nursing home?
A No.
Q In the petition, I think it's Keystone
Guardianship Services is being set forth as the potential
permanent plenary guardian of her person and estate?
A Yes, Slr.
Q Have you contacted them?
A Yes, I have.
Q And are they willing to assume this
responsibility?
A Yes, they are.
Q And would they assume the responsibility
subject to what we just discussed regarding her being able
to maintain her independence?
A Yes.
MR. DELUCA: That's all I have.
52
1
THE COURT: Mr. Daniels.
2 CROSS EXAMINATION
3 BY MR. DANIELS:
4
Q
I guess I only want to punctuate that last
5 statement, that there would be no question about working, as
6 the purpose in Chapter 55 says, to enable someone to
7 continue the least restrictive measures imposed on them In
8 keeping with their health and safety and financial
9 management?
10
11
12
A
That's correct.
THE COURT: You may step down.
MR. DELUCA: Judge, can I just say without
13 any qualification I agree with what he said.
14
15
16
17
THE COURT: I understand.
MR. DELUCA: Is that okay?
MR. DANIELS: What is it?
MR. DELUCA: Without qualification I agree
18 with what you said.
19
20
MR. DANIELS: Thank you.
THE COURT: Any further testimony,
21 petitioner?
22
23
24
MR. DELUCA: No, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Any testimony from respondent?
MR. DANIELS: No, sir. I just prefer to make
25 a statement, if I may.
53
1.
THE COURT: Go ahead, Mr. Daniels, you
2 certainly may. The record is closed.
~
~
MR. DANIELS: Excuse me, sir?
4
THE COURT: I am just telling my stenographer
5 she does not have to take this.
6 (Whereupon, closing statements were held
7 off the record.)
8 (Whereupon, the hearing was concluded
9 at 4:20 p.m.)
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
54
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10
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14
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25
1
CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the proceedings are
3
contained fully and accurately in the notes taken by me on
4
the above cause and that this is a correct transcript of
same.
6
/---..............-..
)~~"
\'O~~O~ \C "~\
Pamela R. Sheaffer
Official Court Reporter
9
The foregoing record of the proceedings on
the hearing of the within matter is hereby approved and
directed to be filed.
Edgar
Ninth
55