HomeMy WebLinkAbout05-1748DAVID B. SHATTO,
Plaintiff
VICKI J. SHATTO,
V.
Defendant
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
NO.os- /7y,r CIVIL TERM
CIVIL ACTION - LAW
: IN CUSTODY
COMPLAINT FOR CUSTODY
AND NOW, Plaintiff, by and through his attorneys, McNees Wallace & Nurick LLC,
files a Complaint for Custody against Defendant, and in support thereof, avers the following:
1. Plaintiff is David B. Shatto, ("Father"], who currently resides at 5525 Westbury
Drive, Enola, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania 17025.
2. Defendant is Vicki J. Shatto ("Mother"), who currently resides at 1112 Cross
Creek Road, Mechanicsburg, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania 17050.
3. Plaintiff seeks custody of the following children:
Name(s) Present Address(es) Age(s)
Emma Jo Shatto 1112 Cross Creek Road 10
Mechanicsburg, PA
Laura Jo Shatto 1112 Cross Creek Road 8
Mechanicsburg, PA
The children were not born out of wedlock.
The children are presently in the custody of Mother, who currently resides at 1112
Cross Creek Road, Mechanicsburg, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania 17050.
During the past five years, the children resided with the following persons and at the
following addresses:
Person(s)
David B. Shatto and
Vicki J. Shatto
Vicki J. Shatto
Address(es)
5525 Westbury Drive
Enola, PA 17025
1112 Cross Creek Road
Mechanicsburg, PA 17050
Date(s)
Birth to 3/21/05
3/21/05 to present
The mother of the children is Vicki J. Shatto, who currently resides at 1112 Cross
Creek Road, Mechanicsburg, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania 17050.
She is married.
The father of the children is David B. Shatto, who currently resides at 5525 Westbury
Drive, Enola, Cumberland County, PA 17025.
He is married.
4. The relationship of Plaintiff to the children is that of father. Plaintiff currently
resides alone.
5. The relationship of Defendant to the children is that of mother. Defendant
currently resides with the following persons:
Name(s) Relationship
Emma Jo Shatto Daughter
Laura Jo Shatto Daughter
6. Plaintiff has not participated as a party or witness, or in another capacity, in
other litigation concerning the custody of the children in this or another court.
Plaintiff has no information of a custody proceeding concerning the children pending in
a court of this Commonwealth.
-2-
Plaintiff does not know of a person not a party to the proceedings who has physical
custody of the children or claims to have custody or visitation rights with respect to the
children.
7. The best interests and permanent welfare of the children will be served by
granting the relief requested.
8. Each parent whose parental rights to the children has not been terminated and
the person who has physical custody of the children have been named as parties to this
action.
WHEREFORE, Plaintiff respectfully requests that this Honorable Court enter an Order
granting Plaintiff custody of the children.
Respectfully submitted,
McNEES WALLACE & NURICK LLC
By PSX44? . P?L"Y
J. aul Helvy
I.D. No. 53148
Pamela L. Purdy
I.D. No. 85783
100 Pine Street
P.O. Box 1166
Harrisburg, PA 17108-1166
(717) 237-5343
Atty. I . D. #53148
Attorney for Plaintiff
Dated: rn Qjt d,, ? Ii ZOOS
-3-
VERIFICATION
Subject to the penalties of 18 Pa. C.S.A. § 4904 relating to unsworn falsification
to authorities, I hereby certify that the facts set forth in the foregoing document are true
and correct to the best of my information and belief.
Date: 3131 `?
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
The undersigned hereby certifies that on the 31St day of March 2005, a true and
correct copy of the foregoing document was served by first-class mail, postage prepaid,
upon the following:
Diane G. Radcliff
3448 Trindle Rd.
Camp Hill, PA 17011
E
Pamela L. Purdy
JCS (`?
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DAVID B. SHATTO IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
PLAINTIFF CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
V.
• 05-1748 CIVIL AC'T'ION LA
VICKI J. SHATTO
DEFENDANT
IN CUSTODY
ORDER OF COURT
AND NOW, _ Wednesday, April 06, 2005 , upon consideration of th? attached Complaint,
it is hereby directed that parties and their respective counsel appear before Melissa P. Gre vy, Esq. , the conciliator,
at D3 Manlove's,1901 State St., Camp Hill, PA 17011 on Friday, May 20, 20Q5 at 9:00 AM
for a Pre-Hearing Custody Conference. At such conference, an effort will be made to resolve the issues in dispute; or
if this cannot be accomplished, to define and narrow the issues to be heard by the court, an to enter into a temporary
order. All children age five or older may also be present at the conference. Failure to appe r at the conference may
provide grounds for entry of a temporary or permanent order.
The court hereby directs the parties to furnish any and all existing Protection Dom Abuse orders,
Special Relief orders, and Custody orders to the conciliator 48 hours prior to scheduled) hearing.
FOR THE COURT,
By:
Custody Conciliator
The Court of Common Pleas of Cumberland County is required by law to cot ply with the Americans
with Disabilites Act of 1990. For information about accessible facilities and reasonable accommodations
available to disabled individuals having business before the court, please contact our of ice. All arrangements
must be made at least 72 hours prior to any hearing or business before the court. You ust attend the scheduled
conference or hearing.
YOU SHOULD TAKE THIS PAPER TO YOUR ATTORNEY AT ONCE. F YOU DO NOT
HAVE AN ATTORNEY OR CANNOT AFFORD ONE, GO TO OR TELEPHONE TI I3 OFFICE SET
FORTH BELOW TO FIND OUT WHERE YOU CAN GET LEGAL HELP,
Cumberland County Bar Association
32 South Bedford Street
Carlisle, Pennsylvania 17013
Telephone (717) 249-3166
17
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RECEIVED JUN 17 2005?f
DAVID G. SHATTO,
Plaintiff
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
V.
VICKI J. SHATTO,
Defendant
CIVIL ACTION - LAW
IN CUSTODY
INTERIM ORDER OF COURT
AND NOW, this. J101 day of June, 2005, upon consideration of the Custody
Conciliation Summary Report, it is hereby ordered and directed as follows:
1. Legal Custodv. The parties, David B. Shatto and Vicki J. Shatto, shall have
shared legal custody of the minor children, Emma Jo, born February 28, 1995, and Laura
Jo, born September 12, 1996. Each parent shall have an equal right, to be exercised jointly
with the other parent, to make all major non-emergency decisions affecting the children's
general well-being including, but not limited to, all decisions regarding their health,
education and religion. Pursuant to the terms of 23 Pa. C. S. §5309, each parent shall be
entitled to all records and information pertaining to the children including, but not limited to,
medical, dental, religious or school records, the residence address of the children and of the
other parent. To the extent one parent has possession of any such records or information,
that parent shall be required to share the same, or copies thereof, with the other parent
within such reasonable time as to make the records and information of reasonable use to
the other parent.
2. Vacation. Each parent shall be entitled to two (2) uninterrupted weeks of
physical custody of the children under and subject to the following terms and conditions:
A. The weeks are to be exercised in blocks of not more than ten
(10) days.
B. Each week shall run from Friday, at 6:00 p.m., until the following
Friday at 6:00 p.m. To the extent possible, each week shall encompass the
selecting parent's alternating weekend.
C. For Summer 2005, the following dates are reserved to Father:
August 12, 2005 through August 22, 2005.
D. For Summer 2005, the following dates are reserved to Mother:
July 1, 2005 through July 11, 2005.
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
3. Holidays. The attached holiday schedule supercedes the regular schedule.
4. Physical Custody. Pending hearing and in the absence of the prevailing
vacation or holiday schedule, the parties shall follow the following custodial arrangement:
A. Commencing June 10, 2005, on alternating weekends, Father will
have custody from Friday evening after work until the following Monday
morning when the children are returned to the daycare program.
B. Commencing June 16, 2005, Father will have custody each
Thursday after work until the following morning when the children are returned
to the summer daycare provider.
C. Commencing June 21, 2005, Father shall have custody on
alternating Tuesdays from after work to the following morning when the children
return to the summer daycare provider.
D. When Father does not have custody, Mother shall have custody.
5. A hearing is sc eduled in C urtroom Number a of the Cumberland County
Courthouse, on the A5 day of , 2005, at i= Y5 o'clock
A.M., at which time testimony will be taken. For the purposes of the hearing, the Father,
David B. Shatto, shall be deemed to be the moving party and shall proceed initially with
testimony. Counsel for the parties or the parties pro se shall file with the Court and
opposing counsel/party a memorandum setting forth each party's position on custody, a list
of witnesses who are expected to testify at the hearing, and a summary of the anticipated
testimony of each witness. These memoranda shall be ' at t to ays prior to the
hearing date.
BY TALE COURT:
J.
Dist: /. Paul Helvy, Esquire, PO Box 1166, Harrisburg, PA 17108-1166
'Plane G. Radcliff, Esquire, 3448 Trindle Road, Camp Hill, PA 17011
v v
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01
HOLIDAYS Ft TIMES EVEN ODD
SPECIAL DAYS YEARS YEARS
Easter Day From 6pm the evening before the Mother Father
holiday to 6pm the day of the holiday
Memorial Day From 6pm the evening before the Father Mother
holiday to 6pm the day of the holiday
Independence Day From 6pm the evening before the Mother Father
holiday to 6pm the day of the holiday
Labor Day From 6pm the evening before the Father Mother
holiday to 6pm the day of the holiday
Thanksgiving From 6pm the evening before Mother Father
1" Half Thanksgiving Day to 3pm on Thanksgiving
Day
Thanksgiving From 3pm on Thanksgiving Day to 6pm Father Mother
2nd Half the day after Thanksgiving Day
Christmas From 9am on 12/24 to 3pm on 12/25 Father Mother
1" Half
Christmas From 3pm on 12/25 to 3pm on 12/26 Mother Father
2nd Half
Mothers Day From 6pm the evening before the Mother Mother
holiday to 6pm the day of the holiday
Father's Day From 6pm the evening before the Father Father
holiday to 6pm the day of the holiday
RECEIVED JUN 17 2005
DAVID G. SHATTO, IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
Plaintiff
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
V.
CIVIL ACTION - LAW
VICKI J. SHATTO, :
IN CUSTODY
Defendant
CUSTODY CONCILIATION SUMMARY REPORT
IN ACCORDANCE WITH CUMBERLAND COUNTY RULE OF CIVIL PROCEDURE
1915.3-8, the undersigned Custody Conciliator submits the following report:
1. The pertinent information concerning the child who is the subject of this
litigation is as follows:
NAME DATE OF BIRTH CURRENTLY IN THE CUSTODY OF
Emma Jo February 28, 1995 Mother
Laura Jo September 12, 1996 Mother
2. Father filed a Complaint for Custody on April 1, 2005. The Custody
Conciliation Conference was held on June 10, 2005 with the following individuals in
attendance: the Father, David B. Shatto, and his counsel, J. Paul Helvy, Esquire; the
Mother, Vicki J. Shatto, and her counsel, Diane G. Radcliff, Esquire.
3. Father's position on custody is as follows: Father reports that since the
parties' separation on March 21, 2005, has been an arrangement which he would not have
chosen. Recently he has had custody of the girls from Thursday after school overnight until
Friday morning and on alternating weekends from Friday after school until Sunday. Father
is seeking to have alternating weekend periods of custody that commence on Friday and
end Monday morning and two additional overnights per week, on Tuesdays and Thursdays.
He would like to follow this calendar year round and would pick the particular weekdays in
this arrangement because it allows him to continue the evening classes he teaches at
HACC. His current contract with HACC includes teaching on Monday and Wednesday
evening and Saturday mornings. This contract expires on June 29, 2005. However, he
anticipates that he will be invited to teach at HACC for the second summer term and in the
Fall. He is employed full-time as an accountant. Father does not agree with Mother's
choice of summer daycare provider. He prefers that the children attend a latchkey program
operated by the YMCA at an elementary school close to his residence in Susquehanna
Township. One of the concerns that Father expressed when discussing various options for
custodial schedules was his wish that he not go for an entire week without seeing the
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
children. It is very important for him to have an equally shared, 50/50, custodial
arrangement. It is also important to him that the he be involved in the children's education
as well as having weekend custodial time. Because the marital home is sold, Father
believes that it may be possible that the children will have to change elementary schools
within the school district that they have been attending. Because he believes they will have
to change elementary schools, he believes it would be better for them to attend school in
the Susquehanna Township School District. Father points out that the children would not
have to attend a latchkey program in the morning if they went to school in the school near
his home, because they would be within walking distance of school and because his work
hours are such that he would be able to wait to go to work until after they have gone to
school.
3. Mother's position on custody is as follows: Mother reports that she has been
the primary custodial parent throughout the marriage. She continues to reside in the school
district that the children were attending prior to the parties' separation. However, she no
longer resides in the geographic area of the same elementary school which the children
attended this academic year. However, she reports that the school principal told her that
the children would not be required to switch elementary schools if she would locate a private
before and after school provider whose residence was located within the geographic
boundaries for the Greenridge Elementary School. Mother reports that the children have
been enrolled in the latchkey program at this elementary school during the academic year
and that the children are therefore familiar with the school and the children that attend the
latchkey program there. She does not want the children to have to change elementary
schools or school districts. In the past, the children have attended a summer daycare
program through a church. This year, the church is no longer providing the program.
Therefore, mother sought out an alternative for a summer daycare program. She selected
the YMCA day camp program which operates out of the Greenridge Elementary School that
the children had been attending. Mother expressed concerns over the schedule proposed
by Father because she does not want the children to have a lot of back and forth between
the parties' homes during the week. While Mother agrees that the children should have
regular contact with Father and she is strongly in favor of having a custodial arrangement
which provides her with primary physical custody.
3. The parties were able to reach an agreement with regard to a holiday
schedule and vacation time. However, Mother strongly objects to Father's request for
shared physical custody. Accordingly, a hearing will be necessary. Counsel requested one
day of the Court's time for this purpose. There will be no custody evaluation or home
studies in this matter.
4. Because the parties have not reached an agreement even as to the summer
schedule, the Conciliator makes the following recommended order.
NO, 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
5. Issues in dispute: physical custody schedule, choice of school district, and the
summer daycare provider/latchkey provider.
ate
Melissa Peel Greev,
Custody Conciliator
:252819
DAVID B. SHATTO, IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
PLAINTIFF CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
V.
VICKI J. SHATTO,
DEFENDANT 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
ORDER OF COURT
AND NOW, this 002 t %6- day of August, 2005, following a hearing on
the merits, IT IS ORDERED:
(1) All prior custody orders are vacated and replaced with this order.
(2) David B. Shatto and Vicki J. Shatto shall have shared legal custody of their
daughters Emma Jo Shatto, born February 28, 1995, and Laura Jo Shatto, born
September 12, 1996.
(3) The mother shall have primary physical custody of Emma and Laura. The
children shall attend school from the mother's residence as she arranges.
(4) During the school year, the father shall have temporary physical custody of
Emma and Laura:
(a) Every other Friday from after school until Monday morning before
school.
(b) On the Tuesday following the next weekend from after school until the
Wednesday morning before school.
(5) During each summer school vacation period, the father shall have Emma and
Laura for the first two weeks, the mother for the next two weeks, and the father for the
next four weeks. Then the parents shall alternate weeks until the beginning of the
school year.
(6) HOLIDAYS TIMES EVEN ODD
AND SPECIAL DAYS YEARS YEARS
Easter Day From 6 p.m. the evening before Mother Father
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
Memorial Day From 6 p.m. the evening before Father Mother
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
Labor Day From 6 p.m. the evening before Father Mother
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
Thanksgiving 15t Half From 6 p.m. the evening before Mother Father
Thanksgiving Day to 3 p.m. on
Thanksgiving Day
Thanksgiving 2nd Half From 3 p.m. on Thanksgiving Father Mother
Day to 6 p.m. the day after
Thanksgiving Day
Christmas Vt Half From 9 a.m. on 12/24 to 3 p.m. Father Mother
on 12/25
Christmas 2nd Half From 3 p.m. on 12125 to 6 p.m. Mother Father
on 12/26
Mother's Day From 6 p.m. the evening before Mother Mother
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
Father's Day From 6 p.m. the evening before Father Father
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of -^
of the holiday x_ "
By
Edgar B. Bayley, J.
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J. Paul Helvy, Esquire
For David B. Shatto
Diane G. Radcliff, Esquire
For Vicki J. Shatto
:sal
DAVID B. SHATTO, IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS
Plaintiff CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
V. NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
VICKI J. SHATTO,
Defendant CIVIL ACTION - LAW
IN CUSTODY
PETITION FOR MODIFICATION -CUSTODY
AND NOW, Plaintiff files a Petition for Modification against Defendant, and in
support thereof, avers the following:
1. Plaintiff is David B. Shatto, ("Father"], who currently resides at 133 Oaklea
Road, Harrisburg, Dauphin County, Pennsylvania 17110.
2. Defendant is Vicki J. Shatto ("Mother"), who currently resides at 1112
Cross Creek Road, Mechanicsburg, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania 17050.
3. The parties are the parents of the following children:
Name(s) Present Address(es) Age(s)
Emma Jo Shatto 1112 Cross Creek Road 11
Mechanicsburg, PA 17050
And
133 Oaklea Road
Harrisburg, PA 17110
Laura Jo Shatto
1112 Cross Creek Road
Mechanicsburg, PA
And
133 Oaklea Road
Harrisburg, PA 17110
9
4. The parties participated in litigation concerning the custody of the children
in this court in August 2005. As a result of this hearing, Plaintiff and Defendant share
custody of the children under an order of this court (05-1748 Civil Term) dated August
26, 2005. Attached hereto, as Exhibit A, is a copy of said order.
5. The best interests and permanent welfare of the children will be served by
granting the relief requested. The children's needs for physical safety, physical and
mental health, academic success, positive social interaction with friends and family, and
unrestricted access to both parents will be best served if the children are in the
Plaintiff's primary care.
WHEREFORE, Plaintiff respectfully requests that this Honorable Court enter an Order
granting Plaintiff primary physical custody of the children.
Respectfully submitted,
By
David B. Shatto
133 Oaklea Road
Harrisburg, PA 17110
(717) 433-1608
Plaintiff
Dated:
VERIFICATION
1. Subject to the penalties of 18 Pa. C.S.A. § 4904 relating to unsworn
falsification to authorities, I hereby certify that the facts set forth in the foregoing
document are true and correct to the best of my information and belief.
David B. Shatto
Dated:
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
The undersigned hereby certifies that on the 16th day of June 2006, a true and correct
copy of the foregoing document was served by first-class mail, postage prepaid, upon
the following:
Vicki J. Shatto
1112 Cross Creek Road
Mechanicsburg, PA 17050
And
Diane G. Radcliff
3448 Trindle Rd.
Camp Hill, PA 17011
PdN?-"-
David B. Shatto
AUG-26-2005 11:27 FROM:MWN
AUG. 26. 2005 (FRI) 09:26 COURTS
DAVID 8. SHATTO,
PLAINTIFF
V.
VICKI J. SHATTO,
DEFENDANT
TO:96714937
JXlkr 6,_1 {?
PAGE. 2
P.2f4
: IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
05-1748 CIVIL TERM
ORDER OF COURT
AND NOW, this ?2 day of August, 2005, following a hearing on
the merits, IT IS ORDERED:
(1) All prior custody orders are vacated and replaced with this order.
(2) David B. Shatto and %Aoki J. Shatto shall have shared legal custody of their
daughters Emma Jo Shatto, born February 28, 1995, and Laura Jo Shatto, born
September 12, 1995.
(3) The mother shall have primary physical custody-of Emma and Laura. The
children shall attend school from the mother's residence as she arranges,
(4) During the school year, the father shall have temporary physical custody of
Emma and Laura:
(a) Every other Friday from after school until Monday morning before
school.
(b) On the Tuesday following the next weekend from after school until the
Wednesday morning before school.
(5) During each summer school vacation period, the father shall have Emma and
Laura for the first two weeks, the mother for the next two weeks, and the father for the
next four weeks. Then the parents shall alternate weeks until the beginning of the
school year.
AUG-26-2005 11:28 FROM:MWN
AUG. 26. 2005 (FRI) 08:26 COURTS
(6) HOLIDAYS
AND SPECIAL DAYS
Easter Day
Memorial Day
Labor Day
Thanksgiving I't Half
Thanksgiving 2nd Half
Christmas 1a` Half
Christmas 2"0 Half
Mother's Day
Father's Day
TO:96714937 P.3/4
PAGE. 3
TIMES EVEN
YEARS
From 5 p.m. the evening before Mother
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
From a p,m, the evening before Father
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
From 6 p.m.. the evening before Father
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
From 6 p.m. the evening before Mother
Thanksgiving Day to 3 p.m. on
Thanksgiving Day
From 3 p.m. on Thanksgiving Father
Day to 6 p.m. the day after
Thanksgiving Day
From 9 a.m. on 12/24 to 3 p.m. Father
on 12/25
From 3 p.m. on 12/25 to 6 p,m. Mother
on 12126
From 6 p.m. the evening before Mother
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
From 6 p.m. the evening before Father
the holiday to 6 p.m the day of
1
1
of the holiday 11--
2
ODD
YEARS
Father
Mother
Mother
Father
Mother
Mother
Father
Mother
Father
1 L/ rte., ?
DAVID B. SHATTO IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
PLAINTIFF CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
V.
VICKI J.SHATTO
DEFENDANT
05-1748 CIVIL ACTION LAW
IN CUSTODY
ORDER OF COURT
AND NOW, Tuesday, June 20, 2006 , upon consideration of the attached Complaint,
it is hereby directed that parties and their respective counsel appear before Melissa P. Greevy, Esq. the conciliator,
at MDJ Manlove, 1901 State St., Camp Hill, PA 17011 on Friday, August 11, 2006 at 11:00 AM
for a Pre-Hearing Custody Conference. At such conference, an effort will be made to resolve the issues in dispute; or
if this cannot be accomplished, to define and narrow the issues to be heard by the court, and to enter into a temporary
order. All children age five or older may also be present at the conference. Failure to appear at the conference may
provide grounds for entry of a temporary or permanent order,
The court hereby directs the parties to furnish any and all existing Protection from Abuse orders,
Special Relief orders, and Custody orders to the conciliator 48 hours prior to scheduled hearing.
FOR THE COURT,
By: /s/ Melissa P. Greets Esq.
Custody Conciliator
The Court of Common Pleas of Cumberland County is required by law to comply with the Americans
with Disabilites Act of 1990. For information about accessible facilities and reasonable accommodations
available to disabled individuals having business before the court, please contact our office. All arrangements
must be made at least 72 hours prior to any hearing or business before the court. You must attend the scheduled
conference or hearing.
YOU SHOULD TAKE THIS PAPER TO YOUR ATTORNEY AT ONCE. IF YOU DO NOT
HAVE AN ATTORNEY OR CANNOT AFFORD ONE, GO TO OR TELEPHONE THE OFFICE SET
FORTH BELOW TO FIND OUT WHERE YOU CAN GET LEGAL HELP.
Cumberland County Bar Association
32 South Bedford Street
Carlisle, Pennsylvania 17013
Telephone (717) 249-3166
AP' 9V- ems- 7
Lo rcl I I A Z?l
Prepared By:
Diane G. Radcliff, Esquire
3448 Trindle Road
Camp Hill, PA 17011
Supreme Court ID # 32112
Phone: 717-737-0100
Fax: 717-975-0697
Email: dianeradcliff @comcast.net
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
DAVID B. SHATTO,
Plaintiff
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
v
VICKI J. SHATTO,
Defendant
CIVIL ACTION - LAW
IN DIVORCE
PETITION TO WITHDRAW AS LEGAL COUNSEL
AND NOW, this day of June, 2006, comes the Petitioner, Diane G. Radcliff, Esquire
and files the above referenced Petition and represents that:
1. Your Petitioner is Diane G. Radcliff, Esquire an attorney duly authorized to
practice law in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and having a principal place
of business located at 3448 Trindle Road, Camp Hill, PA 17011.
2. Your Respondent is Vicki J. Shatto, an adult individual residing at 1112 Crosscreek
Road, Mechanicsburg, PA 17050, and is the Defendant in the above captioned
action.
3. Your Additional Respondent is David B. Shatto, an adult individual residing at 133
Oaklea Road, Harrisburg, PA, and is the Plaintiff in the above captioned action.
4. David B. Shatto is represented in this action by J. Paul Helvy, Esquire of McNees
Wallace Et Nurick LLC, 100 Pine Street, P.O. Box 1166, Harrisburg, PA 17108-1166.
5. Vicki J. Shatto is represented by Diane G. Radcliff, Esquire in this action.
1
6. This is an action for custody.
7. This case was previously decided by an Order entered the Honorable Edgar B.
Bayley on August 26, 2005.
8. On June 16, 2006 David B. Shatto filed Petition to Modify the August 26, 2006
Order. A Conciliation Conference has not yet been scheduled on that petition.
9. Since Diane G. Radcliff, Esquire has undertaken the representation of Vicki J.
Shatto, the following events have occurred which make it impossible or
impractical for her to continue in this legal representation:
a. Vicki J. Shatto has incurred a substantial balance in attorneys fees owed
to Petitioner in this custody and companion divorce case in excess of
$18,000.00 and has failed to pay, or is unable to pay, the balance owed
when due in accordance with the terms of her fee agreement with the
Petitioner.
b. The last payment Vicki J. Shatto made was on 3/22/06 in the amount of
$500.00. While prior to that date she had been making installment
payments, those payments were not sufficient to keep up with the ongoing
charges. As a result, her balance continued to increase monthly.
C. There is a substantial likelihood that the Petitioner will not be paid for her
services.
d. Petitioner has many paying clients for whom services are being delayed in
order to provide legal services to the Vicki J. Shatto with no expectation
of full payment.
e. Petitioner does not feel that she can zealously represent Vicki J. Shatto
without being paid.
f. It is unethical for Petitioner to bear the costs of litigation for Vicki J.
Shatto.
g. Vicki J. Shatto has not and did not retained Petitioner to represent her in
the current custody action, only the one that concluded in August 2005.
2
WHEREFORE, the Petitioner respectfully requests this Honorable Court to enter an Order
granting her leave to withdraw as legal counsel for Respondent/ Defendant, Vicki J.
Shatto.
Respectfully submitted,
_RADCLIFF, ESQUIRE
3 ndle Road
Camp Hill, PA 17011
Phone: (717) 737-0100
Supreme Court ID # 32112
3
VERIFICATION
I verify that the statements made in the foregoing document are true and correct.
understands that false statements herein are made subject to the penalties of 18
Pa.C.S. Section 4904, relating to unsworn falsification to authorities.
LIFF, ESQUIRE
4
a
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
AND NOW, this -°` day of June, 2006, I, Diane G. Radcliff Esquire, hereby
certify that I have this day served a copy of the foregoing Petition to Withdraw as Legal
Counsel upon the following named person(s), by mailing same by first Y class mail, postage
prepaid, addressed as follows:
Vicki J. Shatto
1112 Crosscreek Road
Mechanicsburg, PA 17050
J. Paul Helvy, Esquire
McNees Wallace Ft Nurick LLC
100 Pine Street, P.O. Box 1166
Harrisburg, PA 17108-1166
David B. Shatto
133 Oaklea Road
Harrisburg, PA 17110
?. f?IANE G• CLIFF, ESQL
3448 Tr' Road
Camp Hill, PA 17011
Phone: (717) 737-0100
Supreme Court ID # 32112
5
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:.{
DAVID B. SHATTO, AN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS
Plaintiff : CUMBERLAND COUNTY PENNSYLVANIA
OS- r 7#s
v. :NO. 950m
VICKI J. SHATTO, :CIVIL ACTION - LAW
Defendant AN DIVORCE
PRAECIPE TO ENTER APPEARANCE
TO THE PROTHONOTARY:
Please enter my appearance to represent Defendant VICKI J. SHATTO, in the above
captioned action.
DATE:
Respectfully submitted,
JOANNE HARRISON
Joanne Harrison Clough
Attorney ID No.: 36461
24 N. 32nd Street
Camp Hill, PA 17011
(717) 737-5890
PC
-
s. 97
N -rv`TI
- 7
` CD
DAVID B. SHATTO, :1N THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS
Plaintiff : CUMBERLAND COUNTY PENNSYLVANIA
V. :NO. 05-1748
VICKI J. SHATTO, :CIVIL ACTION - LAW
Defendant AN CUSTODY
PRAECIPE TO ENTER APPEARANCE
TO THE PROTHONOTARY:
Please enter my appearance to represent Defendant VICKI J. SHATTO, in the above
captioned action.
DATE: -
Respectfully submitted,
JOANNE HARRISON CLOUGH, PC
Joalme Harrison Clou&, Fsquire
Attorney ID No.: 36401
24 N. 32nd Street
Camp Hill, PA 17011
(717) 737-5890
6
l]
i (^f
e rt
4?
RECEIVED JUN 27 20C1B y
v.
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
DAVID B. SHATTO,
Plaintiff
v
VICKI J. SHATTO,
Defendant
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
CIVIL ACTION - LAW
IN CUSTODY
RULE TO SHOW CAUSE
AND NOW, this day of \ ?' ?`'? `?II06 upon consideration of the within
Petition, A Rule is issued upon the Respondent/ Plaintiff, David B. Shatto, and the
Respondent/ Defendant, Vicki J. Shatto, to show cause why Diane G. Radcliff, Esquire
should not be granted leave to withdraw as legal counsel for Defendant, Vicki J. Shatto.
Rule Returnable 70 days after service.
Distribution to:
Attorney for Plaintiff:,/Paul Helvy, Esquire, 100 Pine Street, P.O. Box 1166, Harrisburg, PA 17108.1166
aintiff: David B. Shatto, 133 0 klea Road, Harrisburg, PA 17110
Attorney for Defendant : ane G. Radcliff, Esquire, 3448 Trindle Road, Camp Hill, PA 17011
Defendant -i J. Shatto, 1112 Crosscreek Road, Mechanicsburg, PA 17050
J
<l"7
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? t ?i? ? ° ? ?`1
1y ?`?
??: 1. ?.) ...
?hL' ?
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
DAVID B. SHATTO, NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
Plaintiff
CIVIL ACTION - LAW
v
VICKI J. SHATTO, IN CUSTODY
Defendant
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
AND NOW, this 5th day of July, 2006, I, Diane G. Radcliff, Esquire, hereby
certify that I have this day served a copy of the June 30, 2006 Rule to Show Cause and
the Petition to Withdraw as Legal Counsel upon the following named person(s), by
mailing same by first class mail, postage prepaid, addressed as follows:
Vicki J. Shatto
1112 Crosscreek Road
Mechanicsburg, PA 17050
J. Paul Helvy, Esquire
McNees Wallace £t Nurick LLC
100 Pine Street, P.O. Box 1166
Harrisburg, PA 17108-1166
David B. Shatto
133 Oaklea Road
Harrisburg, PA 17110
Jrr, tsquirct
ID # 32112
ilk
Prepared By:
Diane G. Radcliff, Esquire
3448 Trindle Road
Camp Hill, PA 17011
Supreme Court ID # 32112
Phone: 717-737-0100
Fax: 717-975-0697
Email: dianeradcliff@comcast.net
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
DAVID B. SHATTO,
Plaintiff
NO. 05-784 CIVIL TERM
v
VICKI J. SHATTO,
Defendant
CIVIL ACTION - LAW
IN DIVORCE
MOTION FOR RULE ABSOLUTE AND ENTRY OF ORDER
AND NOW this 7th day of August, 2006, Diane G. Radcliff, Esquire, Attorney of Record for
Vicki J. Shatto, the Defendant in the above captioned case, hereby moves this Honorable
Court to make the Rule entered on June 30, 2006 absolute and to grant Diane G.
Radcliff, Esquire leave to withdraw as legal counsel and attorney of record for Defendant
Vicki J. Shatto, and assigns the following reasons therefor:
1. On or about June 26, 2006, your Petitioner, Diane G. Radcliff, Esquire filed a
Petition to Withdraw as Legal Counsel for Vicki J. Shatto, the Defendant in the
above-captioned case.
2. On June 30, 2006, this Honorable Court entered a Rule against the
Respondent/ Plaintiff, David B. Shatto, and the Respondent/ Defendant, Vicki J.
Shatto, to show cause why the requested relief should not be granted, which Rule
was returnable 30 days after service.
3. On July 5, 2006, the Petitioner, Diane G. Radcliff, Esquire, served a true and
correct copy of the Petition and Rule upon the Respondents and
Respondent/ Plaintiff David B. Shatto's legal counsel of record, J. Paul Helvy,
Esquire, as appears on the Certificate of Service filed of record in this case.
4. More than 30 days has elapsed since the Petition and Rule was served upon the
Respondents and no Answer to the Rule has been filed by the Respondents.
5. Since the Respondents have failed to file an Answer or Response to the Rule
within the 30 day time period, the Petitioner is entitled to have the Rule made
absolute and have her request to withdraw as legal counsel granted.
WHEREFORE, Petitioner, Diane G. Radcliff, Esquire respectfully requests this Honorable
Court to make the Rule entered on June 30, 2006 absolute and grant her leave to
withdraw as legal counsel and attorney of record for Defendant Vicki J. Shatto.
Respectfully submitted,
LQ ---
PMA E-G. DCLIFF, ESQUIRE
3448 ri Road
Camp Hill, PA 17011
Phone: (717) 737-0100
Fax: (717) 975-0697
Supreme Court ID # 32112
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
I, Diane G. Radcliff, Esquire, hereby certify that on August
true and correct copy of the MOTION FOR RULE ABSOLUTE upon the following persons,
by mailing same by first class mail, postage prepaid addressed as follows:
Vicki J. Shatto
1112 Crosscreek Road
Mechanicsburg, PA 17050
J. Paul Helvy, Esquire
McNees Wallace £t Nurick LLC
100 Pine Street, P.0. Box 1166
Harrisburg, PA 17108-1166
David B. Shatto
133 Oaklea Road
Harrisburg, PA 17110
)ENE G. RA CLIFF, ESQUIRE
e Road
Camp Hill, PA 17011
Supreme Court ID # 32112
rp
t
9
s
?i
RECEIVED AUG 0 0 4AGS?
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
DAVID B. SHATTO,
V
VICKI J. SHATTO,
Plaintiff
Defendant
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
CIVIL ACTION - LAW
IN CUSTODY
RDER
AND NOW this day of 2006, upon Motion of Diane G. Radcliff,
Esquire, Attorney for Vicki J. Shatt , the 4Dendant in the above captioned case, it is
hereby ordered and decreed that:
1. The Rule entered on June 30, 2006 on the Petition to Withdraw as Legal Counsel
filed by Diane G. Radcliff, Esquire, is made absolute.
2. Diane G. Radcliff Esquire is hereby granted leave to withdrawal as legal counsel
and attorney of record for Defendant, Vicki J. Shatto.
Distribution to:
Petitioner: Diane G. Radcliff, Esquire, 3448 Trindle Road, Camp Hill, PA 17011
Defendant/Respondent: Vicki Shatto, 1112 Crosscreek Road, Mechanicsburg, PA 17050 s v cco IMAAAA4
Attorney for Plaintiff: J. Paul Helvy, Esquire, 100 Pine Street, P.O. Box 1166, Harrisburg, PA 17108-1166 r,//-O i.
Plaintiff/Respondent: David B. Shatto, 133 Oaklea Road, Harrisburg, PA 17110
RLED-OFIr CF
OF THE WTNONOTARY
2006 AUG 1 I AM 10: 4S
CUMBEIILi a vJUNTY
PENNSYLVANIA
DAVID B. SHATTO, : IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS
Plaintiff : CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
v. : No. 05-1748 Civil Term
VICKI J. SHATTO, : CIVIL ACTION - LAW
Defendant : IN CUSTODY
PETITION FOR CIVIL CONTEMPT FOR DISOBEDIENCE OF CUSTODY ORDER
AND NOW comes David B. Shatto, and hereby petitions this Court to issue an Order
of Contempt of the Custody Order entered August 26, 2005, and in support thereof, avers
the following:
BACKGROUND AND PROCEDURAL HISTORY
1. Petitioner is David B. Shatto ("Father"), an adult individual who currently
resides at 133 Oaklea Road, Harrisburg, Dauphin County, Pennsylvania 17110.
2. Respondent is Vicki J. Shatto ("Mother"), an adult individual who currently
resides at 1112 Cross Creek Road, Mechanicsburg, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania
17050.
3. Mother and Father are the natural parents of Emma Jo Shatto, born February
28, 1995, and Laura Jo Shatto, born September 12, 1996 (collectively "Children")
4. On August 26, 2005, following a custody trial in this matter, this Honorable
Court entered an Order of Court granting the parties shared legal custody of Children. Said
Order ("Custody Order") granted Mother primary physical custody of Children, with Father
to have temporary physical custody of Children, as outlined in the Custody Order. A true
and correct copy of said Custody Order is marked as Exhibit "A," attached hereto and
incorporated herein.
5. Mother has previously violated the Custody Order on numerous occasions.
6. One of Mother's significant prior violations occurred between November 11,
2005, and November 14, 2005, when she refused to allow Children to spend the weekend
with Father's brother and family, notwithstanding Father's arrangements for Children to stay
with his brother when previously scheduled business commitments required Father to be
out of town over his custody weekend.
7. In November 2005, in an attempt to preserve relations, Father elected not to
file a Contempt Petition with this Honorable Court, despite Mother's blatant refusal to
comply with the Custody Order.
8. Mother had promised to grant Father access to Children for dinners during
the weeks of the school year that she has custody of Children.
9. Father has repeatedly attempted to arrange said dinners, however, Mother
has refused to allow Father to see his Children for dinners during her weeks of custody.
10. Mother has also refused to allow Father reasonable telephone contact with
Children.
11. Further, Mother has withheld from Father information regarding the education
and medical treatment of Children, in direct violation of this Court's Order granting Mother
and Father shared legal custody of Children.
12. Due to ongoing concerns regarding the Children's safety and wellbeing, on
June 16, 2006, Father filed a Petition for Modification of Custody requesting that the Court
modify its prior Custody Order, and grant Father primary physical custody of Children. A
true and correct copy of said Petition for Modification of Custody is marked as Exhibit T,"
attached hereto and incorporated herein.
13. A conciliation conference is currently scheduled for September 1, 2006.
MOTHER VIOLATED THIS COURT'S ORDER OF AUGUST 26. 2005 WHEN SHE
FAILED TO RELEASE CHILDREN TO FATHER'S CUSTODY ON AUGUST 11. 2006
14. Paragraph five (5) of this Court's Custody Order of August 26, 2005 states,
"during each summer school vacation period, the [F]ather shall have Emma and Laura for
the first two weeks, the [M]other for the next two weeks, and the [F]ather for the next four
weeks. Then the parents shall alternate weeks until the beginning of the school year."
15. Pursuant to the terms of the Custody Order, the parties' alternating weeks of
custody began at 6:00 pm on Friday, August 4, 2006.
16. Under the alternating week schedule, as set forth in the Custody Order,
Mother's custody week began at 6:00 pm on Friday, August 4, 2006 and lasted through
6:00 pm on Friday, August 11, 2006.
17. Per the Custody Order, Father was to have custody of Children from 6:00 pm
on Friday, August 11, 2006 through 6:00 pm on Friday, August 18, 2006.
18. Mother did not contact Father at any point prior to or on August 11, 2006 to
inform him that she did not intend to return Children to his custody at 6:00 pm on August 11,
2006, in accordance with the terms of the Custody Order.
19. Father did not grant Mother permission to keep Children in her custody after
6:00 pm on August 11, 2006.
20. Expecting to meet Mother and Children, Father waited at the Summerdale
Diner, the location chosen by Mother for exchange of Children, from 6:00 pm until
approximately 6:45 pm on Friday, August 11, 2006, however, Mother never arrived with
Children.
21. After Mother failed to bring Children to the Summerdale Diner, Father called
Mother repeatedly and left messages requesting information on the safety and whereabouts
of his Children.
22. Mother did not return Father's phone calls.
23. Father continued to call and text message Mother in a repeated effort to
determine the health, safety, and welfare of Children, and made numerous formal requests
that Mother immediately return Children to Father's custody.
24. Father finally learned the whereabouts of his Children on Sunday, August 13,
2006, when he was able to reach Emma on her cell phone.
25. Mother returned Children to the YMCA camp in which they were enrolled, on
Monday, August 14, 2006.
26. Accordingly, Father regained custody of Children on Monday, August 14,
2006, when he picked them up from the YMCA camp.
27. Mother is in contempt of the Custody Order for her refusal to return Children
to Father's custody at 6:00 pm on Friday, August 11, 2006, and her subsequent actions
depriving Father of his weekend of custody with Children.
WHEREFORE, Father respectfully requests this Honorable Court to:
(a) Find Mother in contempt of the Custody Order of August 26, 2005;
(b) Fine Mother $500 pursuant to 42 Pa.C.S. §4346(a)(2); and
(c) Award any other relief that this Court deems appropriate.
Respe ully submitted,
_ql;74? '
D vid B. Shatto
Dated:
VERIFICATION
Subject to the penalties of 18 Pa. C.S.A. § 4904 relating to unsworn falsification
to authorities, I hereby certify that the facts set forth in the foregoing document are true
and correct to the best of my information and belief.
- 71
David hatto
Dated:
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
AND NOW, on this day of i ? wJ S`? 2006, I David B.
Shatto, hereby certify that I have served a true and correct copy of the within document,
via first class mail postage paid as follows:
Joann Harrison Clough, Esquire
24 North 32nd Street
Camp Hill, PA 17011-2917
Davi B. Shatto
AUG-2,6-2005 11:27 FP0M: r•1WFd 0:: ?. 1 19-17
LUG. 26. 2005 AM 1) 08:26 COUA78 FACE. 2
DAVID B. SHATTO, IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
PLAINTIFF CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
V.
VICKI J. SHATTO,
DEFENDANT 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
ORDER OF COURT
AND NOW, this '*2t k6- day of August, 2005, following a hearing on
the merits, IT IS ORDERED:
(1) All prior custody order--,are vacated and replaced with this order.
(2) David B. Shatto and Vicki J. Shatto shall have shared legal custody of their
daughters Emma Jo Shatto, born February 28, 1995, and Laura Jo Shatto, born
September 12, 19296.
(3) The mother shall have primary physical custody of Emma and Laura. The
children shall attend school from the mother's residence as she arrangos.
(4) During the school year, the father shalt have temporary physical custody of
Emma and Laura:
(a) Every other Friday from after school until Monday morning before
school.
(b) On the Tuesday following the next weekend from after school until the
Wednesday morning before school.
(5) During each summer school vacation period, the father shall have Emma and
Laura for the first two weeks, the mother for the next two weeks, and the father for the
next four weeks. Then the parents shall alternate weeks until the beginning of the
school year.
,4JG-26-2005 11:28 FROM:1114N
AUG. 26. 2005 (FRI) 08:26 COURTS
(6) HOLIDAYS
AND SPECIAL DAYS
Easter Day
Memorial Day
Labor Day
Thanksgiving 131 Half
Thanksgiving 2nd Half
Christmas 1'I( Half
Christmas 2"o Half
Mother's Day
Father's Day
TO:96711937 P.3?1
PACE. 3
TIMES EVEN ODD
YEARS YEARS
From 6 p.m. the evening before Mother !rather
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
From 6 p.m. the evening before Father Mother
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
From 6 p.m. the evening before Father Mother
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
Frbm 6 p.m. the evening before Mother Father
Thanksgiving Day to 3 p.m. on
Thanksgiving Day
From 3 p.m. on Thanksgiving Father Mother
Day to 6 p,rn. the day after
Thanksgiving Day
From 9 a.m, on 12/24 to 3 p.m. Father Mother
on 12/25
From 3 p,m. on 12/25 to 6 p.m. Mother Father
on 12/26
From 6 p.m. the evening before Mother Mother
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
From 6 p.m. the evening before Father Father
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
By th
Edgar B. Bayley, J.
fz?K W ? b F-) 1-1?s
DAVID B. SHATTO, IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS
Plaintiff CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
V. NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
VICKI J. SHATTO, CIVIL ACTION - LAW
Defendant IN CUSTODY
NOTICE TO DEFEND AND CLAIM RIGHTS
You, Vicki J. Shatto, Defendant in the above-captioned custody action, have
been sued in court to obtain custody of the following children: Emma Jo Shatto and
Laura Jo Shatto.
You are ordered to appear in person at
the day of , 2006, at_ _.m., for
[ ] a conciliation or mediation conference
[ ] a pretrial conference
[ ] a hearing before the Court
on
If you fail to appear as provided by this Order, an Order for custody, partial custody, or
visitation may be entered against you or the court may issue a warrant for your arrest.
YOU SHOULD TAKE THIS PAPER TO YOUR LAWYER AT ONCE. IF YOU DO NOT
HAVE A LAWYER OR CANNOT AFFORD ONE, GO TO OR TELEPHONE THE
OFFICE SET FORTH BELOW TO FIND OUT WHERE YOU CAN GET LEGAL HELP.
CUMBERLAND COUNTY BAR ASSOCIATION
32 S. Bedford Street
Carlisle, PA 17013
(717) 249-316
By
David B. Shatto
133 Oaklea Road
Harrisburg, PA 17110
(717) 433-1608
Mechanicsburg, PA 17050
And
DAVID B. SHATTO, IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS
Plaintiff CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
V. NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
VICKI J. SHATTO,
Defendant CIVIL ACTION - LAW
IN CUSTODY
G'r
PETITION FOR MODIFICATION -CUSTODY
AND NOW, Plaintiff files a Petition for Modification against Defendant,' and=-i'nr
support thereof, avers the following: ?-
1. Plaintiff is David B. Shatto, ("Father"], who currently resides at 133 Oaklea
Road, Harrisburg, Dauphin County, Pennsylvania 17110.
2. Defendant is Vicki J. Shatto ("Mother"), who currently resides at 1112
Cross Creek Road, Mechanicsburg, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania 17050.
3. The parties are the parents of the following children:
Name(s) Present Address(es) Age(s)
Emma Jo Shatto 1112 Cross Creek Road 11
Laura Jo Shatto
133 Oaklea Road
Harrisburg, PA 17110
1112 Cross Creek Road
Mechanicsburg, PA
And
9
133 Oaklea Road
Harrisburg, PA 17110
4. The parties participated in litigation concerning the custody of the children
in this court in August 2005. As a result of this hearing, Plaintiff and Defendant share
custody of the children under an order of this court (05-1748 Civil Term) dated August
26, 2005. Attached hereto, as Exhibit A, is a copy of said order.
5. The best interests and permanent welfare of the children will be served by
granting the relief requested. The children's needs for physical safety, physical and
mental health, academic success, positive social interaction with friends and family, and
unrestricted access to both parents will be best served if the children are in the
Plaintiff's primary care.
WHEREFORE, Plaintiff respectfully requests that this Honorable Court enter an Order
granting Plaintiff primary physical custody of the children.
Respectfully submitted,
David B. Shatto
133 Oaklea Road
Harrisburg, PA 17110
(717) 433-1608
Plaintiff
Dated:
VERIFICATION
1. Subject to the penalties of 18 Pa. C.S.A. § 4904 relating to unsworn
falsification to authorities, I hereby certify that the facts set forth in the foregoing
document are true and correct to the best of my information and belief.
David B. Shatto
Dated:
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
The undersigned hereby certifies that on the 16th day of June 2006, a true and correct
copy of the foregoing document was served by first-class mail, postage prepaid, upon
the following:
Vicki J. Shatto
1112 Cross Creek Road
Mechanicsburg, PA 17050
And
Diane G. Radcliff
3448 Trindle Rd.
Camp Hill, PA 17011
David B. Shatto
G!JG-26-2035 11:27 FROM:MWN
AUG. 26. 2005 (FR I) 06 :26 COURT8
TO: 9
PA OR. 2
F. 2 -1
DAVID B. SHAT O, IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
PLAINTIFF CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
V.
VICKI J. SHATTO,
DEFENDANT 85-174B CIVIL TERM
ORDER OF COURT
AND NOW, this '29 day of August, 2005, following a hearing on
the merits, IT IS ORDERED:
(1) All prior custody orders -are vacated and replaced with this order.
(2) David B, Shatto and Vicki J. Shatto shall have shared legal custody of their
daughters Emma Jo Shatto, born February 28, 1995, and Laura Jo Shatto, born
September 12, 199s.
(3) The mother shall have primary physical custody,of Emma and Laura. The
children shall attend school from the mother's residence as she arranges,
(4) During the school year, the father shall have temporary physical custody of
Emma and Laura:
(a) Every other Friday from after school until Monday morning before
school.
(b) On the Tuesday following the next weekend from after school until the
Wednesday morning before school.
(a) During eadh summer school vacation period, the father shall have Emma and
Laura for the first two weeks, the mother for the next two weeks, and the father for the
next four weeks. Then the parents shall alternate weeks until the beginning of the
school year.
. HLIa-26-2VJId5 11:22 FROM:MWN
AUG. 26. 2005(FRF) 08:26 COURTS
(6) HOLIDAYS
AND SPECIAL; DAYS
Easter Day
Memorial Day
Labor Day
Thanksgiving 1" Half
Thanksgiving 2"d Half
Christmas 1`4 Half
Christmas 2"d Half
Mother's Day
Father's Day
TO:95714°37
PAGE. 9
TAUT-S E VEht ODD
YE=ARS YEARS
From 5 p.m. the evening before Mother Father
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
From 6 p,m, the evening before Father Mother
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
From 6 p.m.. the evening before Father Mother
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
Frbm 6 p.m. the evening before Mother Father
Thanksgiving Day to 3 p.m. an
Thanksgiving Day
From 3 p.m. on Thanksgiving Father Mother
Day to 6 p,m. the day after
Thanksgiving Day
From 9 a,m, on 12/24 to 3 p.m. Father Mother
on 12/25
From 3 p,m. on 12/25 to 6 p,m. Mother Father
on 12126
From 6 p.m, the evening before Mother Mother
the holiday to 6 p.m, the day of
of the holiday
From 6 p.m, the evening before Father Father
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday ?-?/'?
Zf l
By th
Edgar B. Bayley, J.
P.3/4
? ?
? ?
?.,
cl `_'
.? . ` ? m
._ - -?-,
?;,_?
?.w?
-.
G `?
l tY
k_:?
:c
.. ?a
DAVID B. SHATTO,
V.
VICKI J. SHATTO,
Bayley, J. - -
AND NOW,
attached Custody
follows:
Plaintiff
Defendant
I, SAP 2 1?2006
IN THE COURT OF CO --
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
CIVIL ACTION - LAW
IN CUSTODY
ORDER OF COURT
this _0 - day of September, 2006, upon consideration of the
Conciliation Summary Report, it is hereby ordered and directed as
1. Pending further Order of Court, this Court's Order of August 25, 2005, shall
remaining in full force and effect, with the following modifications.
2. The parties shall discontinue relying on text messaging for communication.
Parental communication via e-mail shall be limited to factual information regarding the
children's schedule, medical and educational issues. The parties shall not discuss the
divorce or economic issues in their e-mails.
3. The parties shall read Custody Chaos, Personal Peace by Jeffrey P.
Wittmann, Ph.D.
4. Each parent may attend the practices and games for the children's extra-
curricular activities without regard to the custodial schedule.
5. Custodial exchanges shall be done at curb-side, with the parent relinquishing
custody remaining in their residence, and the parent receiving custody remaining in the
vehicle. In order to establish a no-conflict zone for the children, the parents shall not have
discussions between themselves at the time of the custodial exchange. Neither shall the
children be used as messengers between the parents.
6. The summer schedule set forth in Paragraph 5 of the August 26, 2005 Order
shall end on the Friday before school commences each year. The summer schedule
specified in Paragraph 5 of the August 26, 2005 Order shall commence with the Friday that
school is dismissed or the first Friday thereafter, if school is not dismissed on a Friday. The
Friday following the commencement of school commences the school year's alternating
weekend schedule with the parent who did not have custody of the children the previous
weekend. The Court recognizes that this may mean that Father has custody the weekend
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
before school is dismissed in June and may commence his two custodial weeks during the
summer the Friday after school is dismissed.
bri pre- rirvg le ferenc with the Co rt shall a held on the iss of
whet or Fje s uld b equio hav cou sel for urpose of tak' g chit en's
testi ony me of tria . This hear' g is chedul in Crtroom Nu er 2 f the
Cu berla o my Co rthous n t da of 20 6, at
o' ock M.
8. A hearing on Father's August 31, 2006, Petition for Contempt and on Father's
Petition for Modification of Custod is scheduled 0 Courtroom Number 2 of the Cumberland
County Courthouse, on the 1? day of , 2006, at ? ; ?S
o'clock A .M., at which time testimony will be taken. For the purposes of the hearing, the
Father, David B. Shatto, shall be deemed to be the moving party and shall proceed initially
with testimony. Counsel for the parties or the parties pro se shall file with the Court and
opposing counsel/party a memorandum setting forth each party's position on custody, a list
of witnesses who are expected to testify at the hearing, and a summary of the anticipated
testimony of each witness. These memoranda shall be filed at least ten days prior to the
hearing date. Father's memoranda, exhibits and witness list shall be filed twenty days prior
to hearing, with a copy to Mother's counsel. Mother's memoranda, hibi ti d witness list
Ol be o to da s pri r to hearin and se ed?on FthgrQ ?N ?N??
?O 9. The parties shall particl ate in therapeutic family counseling to establish bask
parental dialogue and communication regarding the well being of the children, medical and
educational issues. To the extent that there are unreimbursed medical expenses
associated with this counseling, the unreimbursed cost shall be shared based on a pro-rata
net formula similar to that used by the Domestic Relations Section in the parties' support
matter. The parties' contribution shall be based on their pro-rated contribution to the net
family income.
10. While the custodial scheduled previously provided by this Court is modifiable,
it is modifiable only upon the mutual consent of the parties or pursuant to Order of Court.
Accordingly, if the parties agree to modify the Order, they should confirm their agreement in
writing, which may also be done by e-mail. --??, I
BY THE COURT:
Edgar
Dist:
ZoO*ne Harrison Clough, Esquire, 24 N. 32nd Street, Camp Hill, PA
avid B. Shatto, 133 Oaklea Road, Harrisburg, PA 17110
'N -%_ _-%
S
3ayk, P.J. !
17011
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C711,
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DAVID B. SHATTO,
Plaintiff
V.
VICKI J. SHATTO,
Defendant
InA i
IN THE COURT OF COWdwoLEAS OF
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
CIVIL ACTION - LAW
IN CUSTODY
CUSTODY CONCILIATION SUMMARY REPORT
IN ACCORDANCE WITH CUMBERLAND COUNTY RULE OF CIVIL PROCEDURE
1915.3-8, the undersigned Custody Conciliator submits the following report:
1. The pertinent information concerning the child who is the subject of this
litigation is as follows:
NAME DATE OF BIRTH CURRENTLY IN THE CUSTODY OF
Emma Jo Shatto February 28, 1995 Mother
Laura Jo Shatto September 12, 1996 Mother
2. Father filed a Petition for Modification of Custody on June 16, 2006. A
Custody Conciliation Conference was scheduled for August 11, 2006. The continuance was
granted to September 1, 2006 due to a vacation conflict for Mother's counsel. Present for
the conference were: the Mother, Vicki J. Shatto, and her new counsel, Joanne Harrison
Clough, Esquire; the Father, David B. Shatto, who participated pro se.
3. The last Order entered in this matter was August 26, 2005. This Order was
entered following hearing.
4. Father filed a Petition to Contempt on August 31, 2006. This Petition was first
served on Mother and her counsel at the Custody Conciliation Conference of September 1,
2006. Accordingly, Mother and her counsel were not prepared initially to address the
allegations without some time to review the document, which was also provided to the
Conciliator.
5. Father's position on custody is as follows: Father thinks that he should have
primary physical custody and Mother should only have contact with the children on
alternating weekends. Because this matter was heard approximately nine months prior to
the filing of the Petition for Modification, Father was asked to provide information regarding
any changes that may have occurred since this hearing had been held, in which new
developments might support his seeking of primary custody. Since the hearing, Father
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
reports that Mother's boyfriend has moved into the home. He further alleges that Mother
has been violating the Order with regard to her failure to share legal custody responsibilities,
failing to follow the physical custody schedule, and with regard to telephone contact. Father
reports that during the third marking period of last school year one of the children's report
cards reflected a drop in grades. The report card shoed improvement during the fourth
marking period. Father takes credit for this improvement in the grades because it was at
that time that he threatened to take legal action against Mother as a result of the lowered
grades. The Conciliator reviewed the report cards at the conference and found that neither
child had a grade lower than C and there were some grades that had changed from A's to
C's during the school year.
Father also expressed concern for the physical safety of the children based on
Mother's boyfriend's being the cause of the children being exposed to second hand smoke.
He further alleges that there is a negative psychological environment because of the yelling,
arguments and profanity between Mother and her boyfriend. Father alleges that as a result
of these disputes, the children stay in their bedroom for hours at a time. Father complains
that the children are reporting to him that the boyfriend refers to him as a "crook." Father
also objects to the children being exposed to fire arms. Father reports that there is
brainwashing of these young girls and complains that they are permitted to use fire arms
without protective equipment and that the fire arms are unsecured on the wall in Mother's
residence. Father reports that there is no communication from Mother when he has e-
mailed her with concerns about the children.
Father reports that Mother's residence is unstable. In support of this assertion, he
cites a time when she was considering moving to Duncannon, which would require the
children to attend what he regards as an inferior school district (Susquenita School District).
Father would prefer that the children go to Susquehanna Township School District.
Father has numerous other concerns: lack of communication with Mother; the bike
helmet at Mother's house doesn't fit one of the children; alleged isolation of the children
because of unsatisfactory telephone contact; Mother not providing the name of the soccer
coach; Mother's financial instability; Mother not giving vital information regarding medical
issues and medication; Mother objecting to Father's going out of town on business and
leaving the children with his brother during his custodial weekends; isolating the children
from his family; Mother sending messages with the children rather than communicating
directly with him and Mother not sending clothing for Father's custodial time.
With regard to the Contempt Petition, Father reports that Mother unilaterally extended
her vacation week in August. Father acknowledges that Mother attempted to send a text
message to him regarding the extension of the weekend but reports that the text messages
did not go through and as a result, he could not figure out what she was sending messages
about. Accordingly, Father did not consent to Mother extending her vacation week. Father
acknowledges that Mother later gave him make-up time on the weekend immediately
following her vacation week.
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
The parties subsequently had a dispute about when they were to make the shift
between the summer schedule and the school year schedule. Father agreed to consolidate
his Petition for Contempt be heard at the same time as his Petition to Modify the Custody
Order.
6. Mother's position on custody is as follows: Mother objects to the transfer of
primary custody to Father. She acknowledges that the parties have significant amounts of
debt which have not been resolved in the context of their pending divorce proceeding.
Accordingly, she may not be able to remain in the Cumberland Valley School District
because she may not be able to afford housing there. Hence, she was considering moving
to a more affordable community. However, she is not planning to move out of the
Cumberland Valley School District during the present school year.
Mother acknowledges that her boyfriend smokes but says that he does not do so in
the house. She also acknowledges that the boyfriends smells of smoke when he comes
into the home and that the girls complain about it, especially when he gets in the car.
Mother alleges that the Petition filed by Father is due to his desire to reduce his child
support obligation. With regard to the lack of clothing going back and forth between the
homes, Mother reports that the younger child was embarrassed by having to take
belongings back and forth between her parents' homes, so Mother and Father established
separate wardrobes to reduce the child's embarrassment.
Mother acknowledges that she tried to contact Father via text messaging on a cell
phone to address the issue of extending her vacation. She indicated that she did not know
that the text messages had not gone through and points out that Father had make-up time
on the weekend of August 18, 2006 through August 20, 2006.
Mother acknowledges that she and Father do not communicate well and that she
does not open his e-mail, partially because of the content. Rather than deal with the
conflict, it seems that she does not open the e-mail at all. Mother describes some of
Father's a-mails as hurtful, attacking, insulting, and lengthy. Mother further acknowledges
that she has withheld the children's cell phone access as a disciplinary measure, at times.
Mother also points out that Father failed to put her on the emergency contact list when the
children were attending the Y Day Camp this summer.
Mother is willing to provide Father with information regarding the soccer schedule,
and points out that some of the information that she had obtained about the soccer
schedule had changed after she received it, making it inaccurate for Father to use.
7. Pre-hearinq issues. After hearing Father's list of concerns, Mother's counsel
asked that the Court address a pre-hearing issue with regard to the children's testimony.
Mother's counsel stated that it appears that significant parts of the testimony that Father
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
would be providing would be coming directly from the children. So that the children not be
subject to direct or cross-examination by Father, who is pro se, against their Mother,
Mother's counsel requests that Father be required to have counsel for the period of time the
children testify.
8. The Conciliator was able to obtain agreement from the parties that they would
communicate basic factual information via a-mails regarding the children's schedule,
medical issues and school issues. This e-mail would not include issues related to finances
or the divorce. The Conciliator also clarified for the parties that no revisions to the schedule
would be made in a unilateral fashion, and that given the non-reliability of text messaging,
the parties should discontinue reliance upon this practice. It is also recommended that each
parent be permitted to attend the children's sport practices without regard to the nature of
the custodial schedule, and that the parties read Custody Chaos, Personal Peace by Jeffrey
P. Wittmann, Ph.D, who was the co-founder of the acclaimed "Kids First After Divorce"
program.
It is noted that these parties are experiencing significant lack of communications and
conflict regarding the parenting of their children. It is clear that there is a need for
therapeutic family counseling even to establish the most basic of parental dialogue. If this is
not done, it is unlikely that the circumstances for these children would improve no matter
what the Court would decide regarding the custodial schedule, as the underlying parental
problem would remain unchanged. The Conciliator also recomended a guideline for the
establishment of the beginning of the school year schedule, as contrasted with the summer
schedule.
The parties have agreed to a curbside custodial exchange, with no discussion of
adult issues at the time of the exchange, with the parent relinquishing custody remaining in
their residence at the time of the custodial exchange. It is further recommended that pre-
trial memos, exhibits and witness lists be provided twenty (20) days in advance of trial by
Father, and ten (10) days in advance of trial by Mother. 11_?
?l D ?y
Date
Melissa Peel Greevy, Esquire
Custody Conciliator /
:283070
i r
DAVID B. SHATTO,
Plaintiff
V.
VICKI J. SHATTO,
Defendant
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
CIVIL ACTION - LAW
05-1748 CIVIL TERM
IN RE: TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
CUSTODY
Proceedings held before the
HONORABLE EDGAR B. BAYLEY, J.,
Cumberland County Courthouse, Carlisle, Pennsylvania,
on August 25, 2005,
APPEARANCES:
in Courtroom Number Two.
J. PAUL HELVY, Esquire
For the Plaintiff
DIANE G. RADCLIFF, Esquire
For the Defendant
INDEX TO WITNESSES
FOR THE PLAINTIFF DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS
1. David Brian Shatto 4 77 111 --
2. Donald H. Evans, Jr. 197 -- -- --
3. Margaret Ann Shatto 201 203 -- --
4. Robert D. Campbell, Jr. 206 209 --
FOR THE DEFENDANT
1. Vicki Jo Shatto 115 184 191 --
2. Mary A. Schmidt 212 216 --
3. Clark D. Roush 217 -- -- --
4. Lisa Taglang 220 223 -- --
2
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INDEX TO EXHIBITS
FOR THE PLAINTIFF IDENTIFIED ADMITTED
1. Photographs of children 8 115
2. E-mail from supervisor at HACC 10 115
3. Photographs of field trip 19 115
4. Photographs of townhouse 29 115
5. E-mail to soccer club 46 115
6. Various papers done by children 48 115
7. E-mails to Vicki 60 115
8. Photographs of Mr. Shatto and 71 115
daughters
9. Proposed custody order 73 115
10. Travel distances and times 34 115
11. Map 34 115
FOR THE DEFENDANT
1. Photographs of children 116 193
2. Report cards 134 193
3. Poem 159 193
4. Photographs of home 165 193
5. NOT IDENTIFIED/NOT ADMITTED
6. Proposed order 181 193
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August 25, 2005, 8:48 a.m.
Carlisle, Pennsylvania
(Whereupon, the following proceedings
were held:)
THE COURT: Are there any teachers or
educators or other professionals here to testify?
MR. HELVY: No, Your Honor.
MS. RADCLIFF: No, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Moving party.
MR. HELVY: Mr. Shatto.
Whereupon,
DAVID BRIAN SHATTO,
having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. HELVY:
Q Please state your full name for the record.
A David Brian Shatto.
Q And where do you live?
A I live at 133 Oaklea Road, Harrisburg,
Pennsylvania.
Q And how long have you been there?
A I've been there since May 12, 2005.
Q Is it correct to assume that that was not
the marital residence?
A That's correct.
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Q Now, when you -- you said you moved there in
May. Did you move from the marital residence?
A That's correct.
Q And where was the marital residence?
A It was located at 5525 Westbury Drive in
Enola, Pennsylvania.
Q And how long had you lived there with your
wife and children?
A Since early 1996.
Q Tell us about your children, names, ages.
A Emma Jo is my oldest. She's ten years old,
ten and a half really, born February 28th, 1995.
Q What grade is she going into?
A She's going into fifth grade next year.
Q And.
A And Laura Jo Shatto, my younger daughter.
She'll be nine September 12th. She was born 9/12/96, and
she's going into the fourth grade.
Q And how old are you?
A I'm 44.
Q And your date of birth?
A April 5th, 1961.
Q Now, you were -- are you currently married?
A Yes, I am.
Q And when were you married?
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A Married February 23rd, 1986.
Q To Vicki?
A To Vicki, yes.
Q And when did the two of you separate?
A We separated March 21st, 2005.
Q And when you separated, who left the house?
A Vicki moved out of the house.
Q And then you left the house a couple months
later?
A Yes, about six weeks, I guess, six weeks.
Q Where are you employed?
A I work for D.H. Evans Associates.
Q And what do you do there?
A I'm the chief financial officer and vice
president.
Q What's your -- how long have you been there?
A I've been there since April 1998.
Q And could you describe to the Court generally
what your hours are?
A The office hours that we conduct business are
8:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. My hours, of course, can vary
because of the flexibility that I have in my schedule.
Q Are you an hourly or a salaried employee?
A No, I'm a salaried professional.
Q And you say that your hours can vary.
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There's no set time that you have to be at work or leave
work?
A No, not necessarily, no.
Q Do you have the ability to leave work in the
middle of the day if necessary?
A If necessary, yes.
Q Have you exercised this flexibility that you
have in the past?
A Yes, many times.
Q And just give us an example of a situation
where you may have exercised that flexibility.
A Probably a good example might have been just
the most recent one that occurred two weeks ago when I had a
call from the summer camp where my children were staying.
They had attempted to reach both me and my wife, and my wife
was unavailable, according to the staff personnel, and they
basically had reported to me that Emma had pink eye and that
I needed to come get her from camp.
So I immediately made a doctor's appointment
for my daughter for 1:30 that afternoon and then went and
retrieved my children from actually at the pool they were at
by that time and took them to -- took her to the doctor's
appointment.
Q And have you had the opportunity to exercise
the flexibility that you have for the benefit of the
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children throughout the course of their lives?
A Probably one of the most significant ways
I've been able to use the flexibility of, you know, starting
and ending schedule or move my hours around throughout the
days in a particular pay week is the fact that for years,
ever since the children have gone to school, I've been able
to put them on the school bus every morning that leaves at
8:25 p.m. from our development.
MR. HELVY: Your Honor, I have prepared a
packet of exhibits, which I've already provided one to
opposing counsel, and if acceptable, I will provide you with
one as well.
BY MR. HELVY:
Q I would like you to turn to tab one, the
first exhibit in that packet. Could you identify that for
us?
A This is a rather horrible picture I took with
my PDA phone, evidently showing kind of my immaculate
collection of quality and unquality pictures of my daughters
and family throughout the years. I've got another array
across my bookcase as well, but this is many of them from
taking pictures at the Giant, to their cheerleading
pictures, to a picture there of Emma and me at my old office
when I was in public accounting, other pictures that were
made at different day care centers, and then the regular
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type of regular school pictures are throughout there and
things like that.
Q Where was that picture taken? Is that a
picture of your home or at work?
A This is my office. I sit here, and the
computer is to the front. This is looking left. This is
right beside my desk.
Q Now, in addition to your employment at D.H.
Evans, have you historically had any other employment?
A Yes. I'm a part -- or was, I guess, and
maybe still a part-time instructor on adjunct faculty at
Harrisburg Area Community College.
Q And what type of things do you teach there?
A Over the years, I've taught accounting
classes, and principally over the last, you know, many
years I've taught physical education classes which involve
subject matters of the art and sport of judo and
self-defense.
Q During the course of the marriage, did you
have any set established hours or did they vary?
A No, they did vary based on many factors
throughout the years.
Q Can you give us any sense of what a typical
schedule would be for your involvement with HACC?
A Well, I guess a typical schedule, one that
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probably would be halfway between extremes, would be
probably like a spring semester where I would teach a class
Monday and Wednesday evenings from 6:00 to 8:05 and then
Saturday mornings from 11:00 to 12:40 would be one other
class.
Q Now, do you anticipate that you're going to
be keeping that type of schedule in the fall and in the
future?
A No, not at all.
Q I would like you to turn to tab two there.
A Yes.
Q And can you identify that document?
A This is an e-mail correspondence. This is a
reply to the e-mail below that I had received from my
supervisor in the phys. ed. department at HACC. Basically,
my supervisor is contacting me and a fellow instructor who
teaches similar classes that the enrollment wasn't
sufficient to be able to justify running the class and that
the dean is suggesting that they go ahead and cancel these
classes.
The one class that involves me is the judo
class, which was the Monday, Wednesday 6:00 to 8:05
commitment. That has now been cancelled, although I had not
necessarily anticipated teaching both of those evenings
anyhow because I have a co-teaching instructor who was going
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to handle one of those nights or both if necessary for me.
Q But now the classes aren't even going to be
held?
A At this point and time the class has been
cancelled by the dean. And I also understand from my
supervisor, unfortunately, that due to the way the degree
requirements are being reorganized at HACC, a class like
this may not really have a future in the program at all, and
I still need to get further details.
Q For the fall, are you going to have any
commitments at HACC for Monday through Friday?
A I have absolutely no evening commitments.
Q You had also mentioned sometimes you teach
courses on Saturday. Do you know -- prior to receiving this
e-mail and receiving notice of some changes at the school,
what was your plan for the Saturdays?
A Saturday my plan was to teach it with another
black belt instructor. I wanted to make sure that on
alternating weekends that I would be completely available
for my children, and had arranged that me and this other
instructor would co-teach the class, where I would be there
on one week, he would be there the next week. I still have
not had a blessing on that from the college of whether they
want the course to run under that scenario or would they
prefer to cancel it.
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Q Either way, would you be available to see
your children without being -- without having the necessity
of teaching at HACC on alternating weekends?
A I have no conflict at all.
Q Now, where does your wife work?
A She works for the U.S. Railroad Retirement
Board.
Q And how long has she been there?
A Nineteen years or so.
Q And what are her hours?
A She has to start between 7:00 and 8:00, and I
believe she gets out between 3:30 and 4:30 each day.
Q Does she have the same type of flexibility in
her schedule that you have with yours?
A No, she does not.
Q Does she have a set start time or a set end
time or how is that?
A Yes, she must start by 8:00.
Q And I think you just gave an example of the
concern with red eye that arose or pink eye --
A Oh, yes.
Q -- that arose during the day. You went and
took care of that I believe you said?
A Yes.
Q Was that something that would have typically
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happened during the course of the marriage?
A Yes.
Q Now, let's talk about the preseparation
situation. Before the kids started kindergarten, both of
you were working full-time, is that correct?
A Yes, yes, we both worked full-time.
Q Were the kids in day care?
A Yes, they were.
Q And what's the last day care provider that
you used before they went into kindergarten?
A The Alphabet Express.
Q Well, where is Alphabet Express located?
A It's actually probably located within a
hundred yards of my office at D.H. Evans Associates. It's
basically the next building in the parking lot.
Q How was Alphabet Express selected? Were you
involved in the selection?
A Yes, very much. Of course, I noticed the
fact that there was a day care center there so close to my
work location that it became very attractive, and then Vicki
and I met with the staff, interviewed the facility and made
a joint choice and said this was a good idea.
Q So it was a joint selection between you and
your wife?
A Yes.
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Q How would the kids get from home to the day
care provider?
A In general, I brought them every morning.
Q And that made sense because you worked right
next to it?
A Yes.
Q And then generally how would the kids get
from the day care to home in the evening?
A Either I or Vicki would take them home.
Q And did the two of you share the
responsibility for taking care of the kids if there was any
problems with illness or whatever?
A I believe so. I know specifically I was
called when the children were ill or needed recovered, you
know.
Q Did you have the opportunity to see the kids
during the day?
A Yes.
Q Did you avail yourself of that opportunity?
A Well, I wasn't a real pest about it but, you
know, lots of times I would -- the things I would do is
maybe actually pick up the children and take them downtown
to have lunch with their mother for, you know, a special,
you know, family lunch.
Q But both your -- you said that your daughters
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are going into fourth and fifth grade now, right?
A That's correct.
Q And what school have they been in from
kindergarten to the present?
A They've attended the Green Ridge Elementary
School in the Cumberland Valley School District.
Q That's the elementary school and the school
district that serviced the marital residence?
A That's correct.
Q How are the kids doing in school?
A They're doing rather well, A, B students.
Q Any special needs, any difficulties, anything
like that?
A No special needs. Laura had been in a
special reading program for awhile.
Q How did she end up being in this special
reading program, or did you get any additional assistance
for her with her reading?
A Well, the special reading program was, of
course, identified just through her regular interaction with
her teachers that they felt she needed that. As far as
other help, actually I was involved in arranging for their
very first vision examinations that they had by a
professional. This is something that had come up in
discussion with my optometrist who said the schools don't
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provide full examinations, you really should have your
children in here.
Last August I got them in there, and the
optometrist identified that Laura, my youngest, was having
some difficulty coordinating her muscles, and he thought we
should talk to a vision therapy professional. We did. I
did some research regarding that. We met with the
professional on it.
I contacted my insurance company regarding
such therapy, whether it was covered, you know, made sure it
wasn't a smoke and mirrors type of thing, and we basically
got her into that program. She went through about one and a
half of the three recommended sessions of that, but we did
have some results that were favorable. Her grades really
did come up.
Q About how long did those sessions last?
A I think they were 12 week sessions with an
assessment by the professional at the end.
Q Did that seem to help?
A It did seem to help, yes.
Q In the morning before the kids go to
school --
A Yes.
Q -- what would happen in the Shatto house when
you guys were all together?
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A I guess in an average day, Vicki would get up
between 6:30 and 7:30 and be out of the home by 7:00 or
7:30. I would rise between 7:00 and 7:30 and get the
children up, get them starting their grooming and then
getting them some breakfast, and then taking care of maybe
myself and getting myself ready to go, then coming back to
them making sure that hair was done.
I kind of enjoyed doing that. I had to brush
hair and things like that. I had to tie sneakers now and
then and things like that, but making sure they were attired
and ready to go, and then making sure book bags were done.
And then they were out the door to the bus stop around 8:15,
8:20 for the bus that would leave at 8:25.
And then, of course, I would -- you know,
unlike any other parent in the neighborhood, I would watch
them until they physically got on the bus and wave to them
every morning. It just was a ritual that I had. If I
didn't actually see them on the bus stop for the three times
over the course of all those years, I actually even called
the school to make sure they got there that day.
Q So you were the morning guy?
A I was the morning guy, yeah.
Q If you were to describe the responsibilities
as between you and Vicki for the children, you know, in the
morning getting ready for school and getting on the bus and
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that, what percentage would you allocate to you and what
percentage would you allocate to Vicki?
A On an average day, 99 percent is going to be
in the morning.
Q Now, so then the children would go to school.
Were you involved with the children at school? Were you
involved with the school at all?
A I was really involved actually, you know,
from donuts for dad's day every year attending with my
daughters and all the other fathers. That's a special
event.
I was at virtually every -- I don't recall
missing any parent/teacher conference and seeing how my
children were doing. These were held during the business
day, and my schedule allowed me to be there.
I've been there to tape special book reports
when my wife couldn't attend and be able to bring a
videotape home to share with her on how well our daughter
did. I've gone on a field trip now, just one field trip,
that I was asked about last fall to attend for my daughter.
Q Where was the field trip to?
A It was a Valley Forge downtown Philadelphia
trip.
Q And who went on that field trip, which
daughter?
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A It was Emma, my oldest daughter.
Q Could you turn to tab three, please.
A Yes.
Q Could you identify the series of pictures
that are set forth in tab three.
A Okay. These are --
Q Just identify generally what they are.
A Well, this is a picture of my daughter.
Q Hold on. Are these pictures of any specific
event?
A These are pictures that I took, or actually
maybe my daughter took with my camera, as we were at the
field trip that we were discussing.
Q We don't need to go through each and every
one of these. The Judge can do that if he chooses. So all
the pictures there in tab three are the field trip pictures.
Is that accurate?
A That is accurate, yes.
Q Did you enjoy yourself on the field trip?
A Very much so.
Q Did you have to -- was it easy for you to be
able to get involved on this field trip?
A Well, I had been asked last fall by my
daughter to, you know, really try to go on this annual field
trip that was scheduled for the spring with her. When I
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contacted the teacher about it, she said we normally just
put names in a lottery hat, we pull from those names on who
gets to go and be a chaperone.
But considering the extenuating circumstances
for my daughter who, you know, lost one of her pets, lost
her grandmother, her parents were getting divorced, that her
teacher really came to bat for us. We got to basically
bypass the lottery, and I was allowed to accompany my
daughter on the trip.
Q Let's turn to the afternoon. After school
would -- when the kids got out of school, would you and
Vicki still be at work?
A Yes.
Q And so what arrangements had you made for
their care until you got home from work?
A For the last few years, they've been in a
YMCA sponsored latchkey program that is held physically
right at the Green Ridge Elementary School.
Q And how would the kids then get transported
from that latchkey program to home?
A Either I or Vicki would pick them up from
there.
Q And I assume that on the nights that you
taught the HACC classes Vicki would be responsible?
A Yes, yes.
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Q Now, tell the Court generally what would
happen for dinner at the Shatto household?
A Well, let's talk about an average dinner.
average dinner probably --
THE COURT: I don't want to know what you
ate. What do you mean by this?
BY MR. HELVY:
Q Was it a family dinner? Would you all eat
separately? Did you eat together?
A We ate dinner together, and it usually
involved me bringing takeout food home, something like
Subway food or Your Place stromboli or pizza.
Q Are either you or Vicki big cookers?
A No, we're not.
Q With regard to homework, were you involved
the children's homework?
A Yes, I was.
Q What type of assistance would you provide t
kids?
A I've done many, many, many multiplication
facts type of tests, designing little exams for them to take
and work off and practice. Vocabulary tests were always
Friday mornings, and I was very involved with making sure
that studying got done. In fact, you know, I think that
Laura's and Emma's performance improved in the fourth
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quarter of the year and things like that.
I recall an awful lot of vocabulary test
assistance that I was giving Thursday nights, involvement
with geographical and social study type projects, sitting
there and having my child read me a short book that I would
need to sign off and acknowledge to the teacher that, yes,
they read this story or this series of chapters in a book.
I was involved, actually, in designing -- you
know, it wasn't the most prettiest thing in the world -- an
elaborate indian type of river setting.
Q Well, let's just turn to the type of
activities that your daughters were involved in or have
historically been involved in.
A Okay.
Q Could you tell the Court the types of things
your children enjoy?
A Well, over the years -- and they haven't had
any one activity that they've really stuck with for many,
many, many years. They were involved in some early
brownie/girl scout type of activities. They were involved
in gymnastics. They were involved in cheerleading for a
year.
Currently Laura's very much involved in a
soccer activity, and that's something that I have really,
really, really focused on with Laura.
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Q With regard to the cheerleading, the
gymnastics, were you -- did you assist with transporting the
children, the attending of games and practices?
A I guess the best way to summarize that, Paul,
is that every practice or game that I could have been to I
was there. Sometimes my work schedule would conflict that,
but I've been to gymnastics practices. I've been to
gymnastics award like programs. I've been to cheerleading
practices. I've been to football games where my daughters
cheered, you know, lugged water along for the cheerleaders
to drink.
I've been to, you know, every soccer
practice. You know, last fall when Laura started soccer,
actually even before she officially started on the team, I
went out and made sure that we had a soccer net rebounder,
and I practiced with her before she even started official
practice with the team. And then we kind of split the
practice schedule over the fall where I would go Thursday
nights because I was -- I'm sorry.
Q When were practices? What nights of the wee
were practices?
A Practices last fall were usually Tuesday and
Thursday nights.
Q Did you take one of the nights?
A Yeah, I took one of the nights and probably
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would have been able to -- would have went to both if I
could have.
Q And did Vicki take the other?
A She took the other one, yeah.
Q And then there were games, I assume?
A Yeah, most of them were Saturdays.
Q And were you able to attend any of the games?
A I was able to attend games and even partial
games if I did have an obligation to leave in the middle.
So I was there for every moment that I could attend.
Q A season end celebration or tournament,
anything like that?
A We had a very significant one here at the en
of the May season. It was around the Memorial Day weekend
where we had multiple games on Friday and Saturday night and
then a celebrat ion picnic that was held for the team.
Q Were you able to attend that?
A I was able to attend every one of those, yes.
Q Was Vicki able to attend that?
A She attended none of that.
Q With regard to Emma, did she have any --
well, before we leave soccer, do we expect that Laura is
going to contin ue to play soccer in the future?
A Yes, she loves the sport.
Q And how about Emma, is she involved in any
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sports right now, or do you anticipate that she will be
involved in any sports?
A Well, I don't want to downplay Emma's
involvement with Laura's soccer because Emma, especially
when I went to practice, came to every practice and was
there and involved and working there.
But Emma has expressed an interest in
basketball which is a winter sport. So I really want to
look at that closely with Vicki to make sure that if that's
Emma's wishes we get her involved in that program.
Q Now, you indicated that you separated March
21st, and your testimony was that that was when your wife
left the marital residence, correct?
A Yes.
Q And the date that you then left the house was
in May you said?
A May 12th was the day I moved into my new
townhome.
Q Could you describe the circumstances
surrounding why you stayed in the house as long as you did
or why you left?
A Well, one of my first hopes in the initial
part of the divorce were to be able to maybe maintain the
marital residence for the children and be able to get the
financing to do that. It did not look like the property
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litigation was going to go anywhere, and basically I was
forced to actually move to just a place that was going to be
more affordable.
Q Was it economically feasible for you to stay
in the marital residence?
A No, it became not feasible at all.
Q Now, you moved to where you now live?
A That's correct.
Q And did you buy or rent?
A I own the home.
Q You purchased?
A I purchased.
Q We're going to talk about your residence in
just a moment. But could you tell us what the custodial
schedule has been since March 21st when she moved out?
A Well, I guess to preface it, it's of course
not been anything that I have found anywhere near agreeable.
It has been just unilaterally imposed upon me and the
children.
But the first week after Vicki moved out, I
guess she actually left on a Sunday night, the 20th, and t
children stayed with me. And then she moved her property
out on the 21st, and then the children went with her.
Then Thursday night through the next Sunday
night the children were with me, and they were with me the
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whole weekend. It was a spring break from the college. The
next weekend, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, they were with
me.
And eventually, even though I had requested
other days orally and in writing and was getting absolutely
nowhere, we kind of fell into a pattern of the children
would be with me Thursday nights and then alternating
Friday, Saturday, and Sunday through 6:00. After that
then --
Q Let me stop you. You had the first two
weekends after the separation, then you fell into this
alternating weekend pattern Friday through Sunday and then
Thursday nights, is that right?
A That's right.
Q Now, was that a schedule that was acceptable
to you or agreeable to you?
A No, it was not for me or the children.
Q Whose idea was that schedule?
A That was Vicki's, Vicki's idea.
Q And that schedule stayed in place until when?
A Well, it stayed in place until after the
conciliators -- maybe I should explain this transition
period of time here, this gap here. In May, I had asked
Vicki that I really want to go to a schedule that provides
us more with substantial custody for each of us to have the
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children.
Basically, you know, that response was you
can't unilaterally impose a new schedule on us, and we kind
of felt that that's what was just happening to me and the
children, that this schedule was being unilaterally imposed
upon us by Vicki.
And we had actually -- I had actually
considered filing a petition for special relief to get the
children on the days I wanted but --
Q Did you file any such petition?
A No. We were within weeks of the conciliation
conference that was scheduled. The cost of that, the
adversarial nature of the proceeding, it just felt in the
best interest to wait until the conciliation conference came
in early June.
Q So then you had the conciliation conference
in early June?
A Yes.
Q And the schedule that you're now under was
implemented?
A That's correct.
Q And could you just briefly describe to the
Court what your current schedule is?
A The current schedule is I have custody of th
children every Thursday night and then alternating Friday,
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Saturday, and Sunday nights through Monday morning and then
an alternating Tuesday.
Q And is that a schedule that is satisfactory
to you?
A No, it is not.
Q And I assume that's one of the reasons why
we're here today. Would that be accurate?
A Yes, that's accurate, yes.
Q Now, you had indicated that you purchased a
townhouse, correct?
A Yes.
Q Could you turn to tab four, please.
A Yes.
Q What do we have on tab four?
A The very first picture here is the front of
the townhome that I own. I have an end unit, so I have a
rather large yard in front compared to any of the other
units in this multi-family environment.
The next page is just a view from part of the
back of the house just showing the rear entry into the lower
level of the basement, and you can see the deck on the first
floor right above that.
Q That's your deck?
A This is my deck there, yes. So there's a
concrete slab and then the yard -- you know, a yard behind
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there.
The next picture is a nice view of the entire
back stretch behind the townhouses and all the foliage and
privacy that's afforded to me and the children there. This
is looking down from my unit all the way down the stretch of
the units behind me.
The next picture is a picture of the deck
that I have there. It's actually the largest deck that I've
ever had. And this provides a nice place where the children
can be outside, be confined a little, and be safe so they
can have some outdoor time there, and there's plenty of room
to eat and cook there as well as play.
The next picture's a view looking from our
sofa towards the side of the house. This is our living room
area where we -- well, we either watch some movies and TV.
There was an educational TV show on tattooing the other
night.
Right in front of that TV is our pets. At
this point and time we have adopted pets that don't require
a lot of time commitment to care for. There are dwarf
hamsters in there. We have two little dwarf hamsters that
we take care of.
This is looking in from the front door. This
is the sofa that we would have been sitting on watching the
TV, looking across into the dining area, and in the far
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back, the left side of the corner, you can see the sliding
glass door which goes out onto the deck. In fact, the deck
is across both of those windows there in the back.
This is the dining area. This is Mr. Chefy
(phonetic) guy there all over the place with pillows and
cushions. The children were very, very, very involved in
designing the bathroom and kitchen placemats and things like
that. They like the Chefy guy. I see my dog is on top of
the -- I'll call it a guitar safe and not a gun safe.
Q Did the kids pick out the Chefy guy motif?
A Yeah. I like the roosters better. The kids
picked out Chefy guy.
Q All right. The next picture is your kitchen?
A This is the kitchen which is right beside the
dining area.
Q The next picture looks like some kind of big
desk or something.
A Well, yeah, this is described as a loft area.
It's one of the second-story rooms. It could be used very
easily, with a little conversion, as another bedroom if we
so need to do that in the future. Right now this is an area
where the -- on the one hand the children will play with the
computer and use Microsoft Word and create all kinds of
school type projects.
They were running a school of their own over
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the weekend with all kinds of name badges, exams, and
arithmetic test keys. This is a place where the children
can go where there isn't a TV, where they will do their
homework if they have to. So, you know, this is our loft.
The next picture is, again, of the loft. Me
and my daughters share a very, very fond love of music.
This is a little area here where we've set up as, you know,
part of this homework, art, music studio that --
Q I see a keyboard there.
A That's a keyboard. My mother gave me that
for Christmas one time. Laura likes to play keyboard and
play music.
Q We've got pictures of beds. The first bed
picture that's your bedroom?
A That's my bedroom, yes.
Q The next bed picture?
A This is the children's room. They had wanted
bunk beds for years, and I accommodated their wish to do
that.
Q Were they involved in the decoration and
creation of their bedroom?
A Yes. In fact, they were actually -- they
actually picked the actual bed back in January or February.
This is their choice completely.
Q Without going through each and every one of
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the remainder of the pictures, you have a laundry room in
your house?
A Yeah, there is a dedicated laundry room.
Q And is there a full basement?
A Yes, it's an extremely large basement.
Q So essentially is it a three-story townhouse?
A Yes, it is.
Q And the kids have their own bathroom?
A Yes, they do.
Q And you have a separate bathroom from them?
A That is correct. We have two full baths.
Q I'm going to --
THE COURT: Go back to your current schedule.
Do I understa nd that you have every Thursday evening, and on
the alternate weekend you have Thursday evening through
Monday mornin g? Is that how this works?
THE WITNESS: And I have Tuesday as well.
THE COURT: Is that how it works?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
MR. HELVY: The Tuesdays is an every other.
THE COURT: Alternate Tuesday evenings to
Wednesday mor ning?
THE WITNESS: I have alternate Tuesdays to
Wednesday mor ning, yes, and then every Thursday and Friday
morning, and then alternating Friday, Saturday, Sunday
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through Monday.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. HELVY:
Q I show you a document that I've marked as
Plaintiff's Exhibit 10. Could you identify that document,
please?
A This is a map I had put together to basically
show the physical locations of various important areas to
the children, where their father lives, where their mother
lives, where their father and mother work.
Q Now, you had lived over in the Cumberland
Valley School District, right?
A Right. If you look at the map actually where
it says B, that's about where we live.
Q Okay. And over across the river you now live
in the area labeled D, is that correct?
A That's correct. I live about 1.9 miles from
the river from my front doorstep travel time.
Q And have you set forth the mileage and the
travel times from the various places? Could you look at
Exhibit 10. That's tab ten in the notebook.
A Yes. These are the approximate drive times
and miles from one key location to another.
Q So is there anymore than a 20 minute drive
from either your house, your work to Vicki's house or her
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work or either of the places that the children may go to
school?
A No, no, there's not.
Q So although you're on the other side of the
river, are you still fairly approximate?
A I'm very, very approximate. I'm still closer
to everything than actually where my office location has
been since 1998.
MR. HELVY: Your Honor, I recognize that that
river may represent a psychological barrier.
THE COURT: It doesn't represent it with me.
It's one big metropolitan areas. It probably should be
merged with many more areas than it is.
BY MR. HELVY:
Q Now, where does Vicki live on this? Is that
the one marked V?
A Yes, she lives there on V.
Q Have you -- do you know if she owns or rents?
A She rents.
Q Do you have any idea as to how long she's
going --
THE COURT: Let's get that from her. If he
has any rebuttal on it, we will take it that way. She is
going to tell me all about her situation.
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BY MR. HELVY:
Q Do you have any concerns about her stability
or her intentions to stay in that area, stay at this
geographic area?
A Should I respond to that?
Q Yes, if it's okay with the Judge.
A Yes. It has been expressed to me by Vicki
over the last few months that, you know, she did plan to
move and would relocate, and it could be even out of the
metropolitan area, let alone -- even the greater
metropolitan area to another metropolitan area and things
like that.
Q Where has she considered or discussed with
you to move?
A Because of her work, either through a
reduction in force or promotion desires, she may need to go
to Scranton or Philadelphia or Pittsburgh. For personal
reasons, she's expressed a desire in wanting to go to Perry
County.
Q With regard to your living arrangements, do
you have any plans on leaving or moving at anytime in the
near or foreseeable future?
A No. The location where I'm at, the beautiful
housing environment below the mountain where I live, is an
exquisite place to live. It's close to everything, the East
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Shore or West Shore. And financially it probably wouldn't
be feasible to consider such a move for several years
either.
Q Now, let's talk about schools. You said that
the kids had historically attended Cumberland Valley School
District, Green Ridge Elementary School.
A Yes.
Q Do either of you currently live in an area
that's serviced by the Green Ridge Elementary School?
A No, neither of us do.
Q Is Vicki in the Cumberland Valley School
District?
A Yes, she is.
Q But in an area serviced by a different
school?
A That's correct.
Q Where do you believe mother wants the
children to attend school?
A It's my understanding that Vicki would like
the children to continue to go to school at Green Ridge
Elementary School, which is represented by the G on the map.
Q Do you know if it's possible for your kids to
go to Green Ridge even though neither of you live in that
area?
A It's my understanding through discussions
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with the former and the new principal for Green Ridge
Elementary School -- they've had a change of leadership
there. It's my understanding that if the school district's
appropriate personnel will approve a plan for a baby-sitter,
someone who will put the children on the bus or take the --
and take the children off the bus, and that baby-sitter then
lives within the servicing area, the busing area for that
school district, that the school district would then permit
that arrangement as long as that baby-sitting arrangement
still stayed in place.
Q So if you had a baby-sitter that lived in the
area serviced by Green Ridge, then your kids could go to
Green Ridge, is that correct?
A That's correct.
Q As long as mom stays where she currently
lives and as long as the baby-sitter is in the area, right?
A That's correct.
Q Now, historically you said that the kids have
been involved in sort of an after-school program. What
after-school program have they been involved in?
A It's a program sponsored by the YMCA, a
latchkey program.
Q And can the kids continue to go to that YMCA
program under this arrangement?
A No, no. The baby-sitter has to be an actual
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resident of the servicing area, cannot use a formal program
that the children are used to in this arrangement.
Q And just to clarify, historically have the
children had any preschool latchkey program or day care
provided?
A Not up until -- not up until around May --
March or so this year when it became evident that, you know,
we would need morning care because of Vicki's inflexible
schedule.
Q But prior to separation --
A Prior to separation all those years, no, I
was the morning provider. There was never any need for a
morning latchkey program.
Q Now, do you know if mom has found a residence
within the area serviced by Green Ridge to watch the kids?
A I'm sorry. I did want to -- one thought did
come to me on the last question.
Q Go ahead.
A I would like to clarify that just for the
record. We did use another similar program to the Y where I
would still be the morning person who prepared the children,
but I would take them to this program that was doing pre and
post stuff, and the bus actually would pick them up from
there instead of our development, so there was an element
there, but they weren't providing baby-sitting type services
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is
similar to what we're talking about here. Could you repeat
your last question?
Q Do you know if mom has found a baby-sitter
that would allow the kids to go to Green Ridge?
A Yes.
Q Who is that?
A Her name's Susan Knaub.
Q Do you know her?
A Yes, I do.
Q Is she a former neighbor of yours?
A Yes, she is.
Q And does she have children of her own?
A Yes, she does.
Q Roughly, how old are they?
A I think Amanda's around eight. She plays
soccer -- she had played soccer with Laura, and then Jessie,
she's preschool.
Q Do you know if Miss Knaub is a certified
baby-sitter provider?
A She is not.
Q I think you indicated that you actually
talked to the principal of Green Ridge about this plan. Is
that accurate?
A Yes, both principals.
Q Do you have any concerns with this plan base
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upon what you know about it and the conversations you've had
with the principals?
A I don't have any -- well, the concerns or
issues I've discussed with the principal -- yeah, I have
concerns other than this of course. But the concerns I have
regarding the plan, just the issues discussed with the
principal, is the issue that if the baby-sitter terminates
we have to provide notice. I have not got any clear
guidance from the school district of just how long we have
to go find another acceptable and safe baby-sitting provider
in that servicing area until my children are bumped back to
where they legally should go, which would either be the
school in my district or the Hampden Elementary School
within Cumberland Valley.
Q Which is the one that services the area mom
now lives?
A That's correct.
Q What other -- do you have any other concerns
regarding the -- before we hit that, what would be the kids'
schedule, as you understand it, if they went to Green Ridge
under this scenario?
A Well, if they go to Green Ridge under this
schedule, of course I'm going to do everything I can to
accommodate a coordination of appropriate and similar
arrival and pick up times as best I can with, you know, the
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schedules that we have.
With Vicki's work schedule, needing to be at
the office by 8:00, most likely the children would need to
be dropped off at Mrs. Knaub's by 7:30 or earlier. They
would then be at Mrs. Knaub's until the bus picked them up
very close to Mrs. Knaub's house at 8:10.
They would then take a long, lengthy bus
trip, which probably takes longer than the information I
have here because the bus stops a bunch of places, and then
they would get to the elementary school before the 8:45
start time of classes.
Q So you checked the bus times of pick up at
Miss Knaub's house?
A Yes. Miss Knaub confirmed that it's about
8:10.
Q How about in the afternoon, what would
happen?
A They would come home on the bus. She would
get them off the bus. I think that was around -- she was
expecting them at fourish or something like that. And then
they would really just be pretty much at Mrs. Knaub's mercy
as far as what they would need to do. Maybe they would be
able to play in the neighborhood. Maybe they would need to,
you know, do whatever Mrs. Knaub had to do caring for her
other children.
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Q You indicated that Amanda, her roughly
eight-year-old daughter, plays soccer.
A Yes, she does play soccer.
Q Does she play soccer on the same team as
Laura does?
A Mrs. Knaub's informed me that she will not be
playing on the same team as Laura. Mrs. Knaub therefore
needs to maybe leave her home before 5:00 to be at a soccer
field which may not be the same soccer field that Laura has
to be and could be maybe at different places from
day-to-day, and that creates an awful lot of confusion on
where the children should be recovered between 5:00 and 6:00
each night.
Q Have you figured that out yet? Do you have a
clear idea of how that would work?
A No. Again, Vicki and Mrs. Knaub have talked
more about this type of arrangement as well and they have
not really been very -- Vicki hasn't been very forthcoming
on how we would coordinate such a plan. I'm pretty much in
the dark.
Q Now, what school district services the area
where you live?
A I'm serviced by the Susquehanna Township
School District.
Q And what elementary school services the area
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that you live in?
A For the grades that my children will be going
into, it's serviced by the Thomas Holtzman Elementary School
which used to be the Herbert Hoover Elementary School.
Q And how far is that from your house?
A It's about a half mile.
Q And if they went to the Susquehanna School
District, would they require a morning day care or latchkey
program?
A No, they would not. They could return
basically to the care of a parent before school.
Q Do you see that as a significant factor in
the decision making process?
A As far as a choice of school district I do,
yes.
Q So you would be able to take them to school
in the morning?
A That's correct. School starts at 8:25 at the
elementary school. Actually, under this geographical
arrangement, I almost would make it to the office by our
normal work hours, but I, of course, have flexibility to
come in later if necessary.
Q Roughly, how far is this school from where
Vicki works?
A She works downtown. So she works on the East
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Shore, the same as where the school is. The chart shows
Vicki's work. Thomas Holtzman Elementary is 6.1 miles,
which is much closer than the trip to Green Ridge which is
out in the boonies there.
Q Again, if the children attended the Thomas
Holtzman School, what would happen in the afternoon? What
would be the afternoon care arrangement?
A If they attended the Thomas Holtzman School,
I would have them back, and they are signed up and enrolled
for a YMCA sponsored latchkey program that's run right there
at the Thomas Holtzman Elementary School.
Q A program comparable to the one they've
historically been involved in?
A Yes.
Q You said that you already have them signed up
and enrolled and ready to go?
A They are signed up and enrolled and ready to
go.
Q With regard to getting the kids enrolled in
Holtzman, if the Court should enter an order that the kids
should go to Susquehanna, has everything been done to make
that happen?
A I now have all the documents in place, and if
the Court does approve that, this afternoon or tomorrow I
can be there taking care of the final T crosses and I dots.
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School starts Monday morning.
Q With regard to Laura's soccer, have you
looked into a soccer program for Laura that would be
available to her in your area?
A Yes, I have. Again, my children's wishes
were very important. Emma was fortunate that basketball is
a winter sport. Laura I had to take steps to make sure that
she was involved in the local soccer club. She is signed up
with that. I spoke with her assigned coach. Just this week
he contacted me, and there's a meeting on Sunday afternoon
regarding the team.
Q Could you identify Plaintiff's Exhibit 5, tab
five there? What is that?
A Oh, yes. This is just an e-mail to one of
the representatives at the soccer club expressing my, you
know, appreciation for their cooperation in working with me
in this limbo situation that I am with my children and
helping me, you know, get Laura signed up and having a spot
for her on a team if the Court so decided that she should go
to school there. I believe the soccer and the school should
go together.
Q Now, what's the first day of school at the
Susquehanna School District?
A It is Monday morning, August 29th.
Q Have you researched or looked into the merits
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of the Susquehanna School District versus the Cumberland
Valley School District?
A Yes, I have.
Q Just generally, and don't spend a lot of time
on this, what type of research have you done? What
resources have you accessed?
A Well, I, of course, actually toured the
Thomas Holtzman School with the guidance counselor for the
school. I had a complete tour of the building. This
guidance counselor actually used to work at Cumberland
Valley. I was able to get a contrast on curriculum issues,
and she felt there was going to be no problem at all for the
children. I've spoken with the superintendent for the
school district regarding, you know, that issue as well.
I've done research on the internet coming off
of the Susquehanna Township site, educational -- the
educational site services. I've gone to two other sources.
The one does a good comparison of the standard scores
comparison. The one our realtor uses is -- our realtor for
our marital home has used another source. I actually looked
at the similar comparison for the district I'm in right now.
Q Based upon your research and studies into
this, what's your general assessment as to the comparisons?
A The general assessment is we're looking at
two fine school districts. We're looking at two fine
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elementary schools. Probably the biggest difference between
the two is that Cumberland Valley School District is
immense. It's large. It's two and a half times the size of
Susquehanna and, you know, again, looking to the future for
my children.
Q I would like to shift gears a little bit with
you and just talk about the kind of relationship that you
have with your daughters. Generally how would you describe
it?
A I would describe it as extremely close,
extremely loving, extremely involved, always has been.
Q Could you turn to tab six.
A Yes.
Q Could you just flip through these things and
explain them for the Judge.
A Yeah. None of this is very creative or
beautiful artwork. This I believe is -- this I know is a
copy of a post-it note that I just happened to find sitting
around in the home that just says daddy's the best daddy
ever. I just happened to hang onto it, but they write that
on post-it notes. This is an emotional one here too. When
my children were away vacationing with my wife --
Q Are you looking at the second page?
A I am, I'm sorry, the one with the trailer on
it. I'm onto the second page. Again, this is a card that
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was sent to me. I didn't get it, actually, until they
returned from vacation.
But, you know, this is a time where I had
tried to call their cellphones and leave messages and had
left multiple text messages to try to stay in contact with
them while they were away for well over a week and had no
return contact at all or anything like that from them at
all, but they thought about me.
We love dogs and all. They call themselves
dogsters evidently, and they need to work on their spelling
really. But it was a real shame that I actually was left
without any type of contact with my children.
Q The next picture.
A This is a picture that I'm going to say was
drawn around April. It was drawn during the day when I
brought my daughters in on bring your child to work day this
year, and I just happened to find it there. I'm always
complaining if I don't get enough creative artwork and they
should do some. I just happened to find it there. I had it
hanging up for awhile.
Q Did you ask the kids to draw this?
A No, I did not.
Q Did you ask the kids to create any of this
stuff that's in here?
A No, I did not.
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Q And do the other things just represent some
things that your daughters have done?
A Just to do the other two there, that's the
brownies' father/daughter dance that I attended. They
prepared those. We got pictures there at that. They
prepared that.
This is not a very good picture, but this is
just another thing I found just laying around the house.
This is a rubber band. The children wear rubber bands
around their wrists all the time. This one I think -- I
can't read it very well. I believe it says I love dad. So
it's something one of my children, I believe Emma, wore
around a lot.
Q And is that just a photocopy of this?
A That's a copy of that, yeah.
Q It didn 't come out too well?
A No, it didn't.
Q But it says I love dad on it, is that right?
A Yeah.
Q What types of things do you like to do with
your daughters?
A I like to do an awful lot of things with my
daughters, I always have. As far as -- you know, we do a
lot of things and always have. As far as just normal life
activities, you know, weekends and even during the weekdays,
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you know, we've got to get regular life stuff done.
We go food shopping together. We always wen
food shopping before. We shop for staples. We buy things
like the Chefy guy outfits and things like that. We have
fun too.
I've had rather limited time and exposure
with my children because of the schedule that's been
imposed, and a normal Thursday night might be for us coming
home and having dinner and getting swimsuits washed up for
the next morning so they can go back to camp and swim there.
And then we'll decide whether we'll sit on
the sofa with one on both sides of me and watch some type of
television show or if we're going to pull out the Harry
Potter book and decide who's going to read a page for that
night.
Usually Vanessa and TJ, the two hamsters, you
know, they come out with socks on their hands because they
nip and bite us. They're loving pets, just curious pets.
So, you know, that's a lot of the things that we do there.
Over the years, you know, we've walked dogs,
got stuck in mud. We've got stuck in mud walking dogs. I
don't know if you've ever seen a 300 pound man on a big blue
scooter pushing it around with his foot. We go to
aquariums.
We've gone to -- we do an awful lot of thingsl
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together both living and for fun. We do most of it
one-on-one or part of the family unit. I'm not big on
dragging the kids a whole bunch of other places to other
people, you know. It's one-on-one time.
Q Do you have any hobbies that you enjoy that
you like to share with the kids?
A I do play guitar, maybe not all that well,
and things like that. I don't play keyboard very well. My
daughters actually play that. I give my wife -- it's my
wife's training there. The piano classes that she's taken
over the years, that's helped my daughters there with that.
But, you know, we've spent whole days writing music and
recording music. So we have a fond love of that.
Computers as well. The children, again, love
to use the computers as tools to create things and, you
know, have projects of their own. So even though I like
one-on-one time with them, there are times where I let them
be kids and don't smother them either, and they get to do
their own things. It's great to have a sister, I think.
Q Now, could you just very briefly describe to
the Judge your opinion of Vicki as the mother of the
children?
A Well, I think she's a good mother.
Q And what's your sense with regard to the
children's needs with regard to their mom?
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A My sense regarding the children's needs? If
you're asking do I think that the children should see their
mother as often as they see their father, yes.
Q In the pretrial, mother made an allegation
that you really just were not involved with the kids during
the course of the marriage, that you were either working or
were obsessing on your own personal activities. Do you
agree with that?
A No, I adamantly deny that.
Q You described some of the things that you've
done and some of the activities that you've attended and
your involvement. Do you think that your testimony today is
a fair depiction of your involvement with the kids over the
years?
A Yes. I could spend a significant more time
discussing it if we wish to, yes.
Q I don't think that's necessary. I think mom
has indicated that you would obsess on your, for example,
music or computers to the exclusion of the children.
A I don't believe that's true. A common time
for me to maybe practice guitar -- you have to understand
that playing a musical instrument, and I'm sure my wife
would feel the same about playing the piano and the practice
that she's done, you know, it takes a time commitment.
If you have a child that's going to be
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interested in such a project, you know, you just can't tell
them go practice in your room for an hour if you don't set
an example.
So, you know, many times when I would play
guitar would be times where the children would be watching
the Disney channel on the TV in the living room and my wife
would be watching the little TV screen in the kitchen on
whatever show made her happy, and I would not want to watch
TV on either of those things or hear both at the same time.
I would escape to our den area, and there would be times
when I would practice most of the time.
Q Another one of the contentions in mom's
pretrial is that she has devoted her entire life to the
children and in sort of contrast saying that you didn't. Do
you agree with that?
A Again, I disagree with that as well. My wife
is a well-rounded person as well. She's been -- since the
summer of 2003, she was taking college classes at HACC.
Some of these were piano classes. You know, some of these
classes were out of the home. Some were internet classes.
Some of the demands on the internet classes
were so great we actually had to buy a second computer just
so I could use the computer to pay the bills, which was my
most significant involvement on the computer, because I use
Microsoft Money and on-line banking to be able to get the
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bills paid. That's what I did on the computer most of the
time, getting the housework done.
Q Did your wife have hobbies that she enjoyed
as well?
A Yeah. Again, we were both fairly physically
active. I was at the college, and I got the luxury of being
paid to do my push-ups and combine those times. But my wife
is an adamant runner, and she would go out for very long
runs and things like that for an hour or so.
Q You indicated she plays the piano.
A Plays the piano, practices the piano, takes
classes out of the home.
Q What other types of things would she enjoy
doing around the house that didn't necessarily involve
one-on-one contact?
A Well, she did like to watch her own TV shows,
whether they were on the little TV in the kitchen or up in
the master bedroom, while the kids were doing their own
thing too, you know, kids being kids. They don't want to be
with their parents every second. They want to play, ride
bike, or watch some TV shows of their own as well.
Q Were there any occasions when mom just wasn't
around?
A Again, in the earlier part of this year, you
know, she would leave and say she was going to the food
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store and not return until the next day.
Q Did the kids ask any questions about that or
were they aware of it?
A It got to a certain point where, you know,
they just weren't buying the food store type thing, and they
knew she wasn't coming home for the night and they were left)
crying on -- my youngest was just left crying on the steps,
and I had to try to console her with what this was all
about.
Q That's not the type of thing -- or is that
the type of thing that happened on a typical basis
throughout the course of the marriage?
A No, no, not over the course. The issues like
that were just caused by the more increased tension in the
marital residence.
Q Do you have a support network in this area,
in the geographic area?
A Yes. A lot of them are here today.
Q Can you just tell the Court some of the
people that you have, family, friends in the area, that you
can and have relied upon in the event that you or the
children need assistance?
A My brother and his family are here today,
Scott and Peggy Shatto, and their 14-year-old daughter
Marissa, who is a certified baby-sitter, my father, who
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is --
Q And where does your brother live?
A My brother lives in West Fairview.
Q Go ahead.
A You can see that on the map, where that's at
as well too. It's right in the middle of everything.
Q You started to mention your father.
A Yes, my father, he's in good health. We
unfortunately lost his wife, my mother, the children's
grandmother, in February this year.
THE COURT: Where does he live?
THE WITNESS: He lives in West Fairview as
well. I was born and raised in West Fairview.
BY MR. HELVY:
Q Do you have any other siblings?
A No, I have no other siblings.
Q Or immediate family?
A No.
Q Any other more extended family in the area?
A Yeah, I have a very sharp and bright
92-year-old grandmother who's been extremely supportive
through this endeavor, helping me and the kids. Her other
son, my wife's brother, Bill Burkey. My grandmother's name
is Evelyn Burkey. So as far as friends, Mr. Campbell is
here today. He's a very close friend.
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Q Let me just slow you down a bit. Your
92-year-old grandmother, where does she live?
A She lives in West Fairview too.
Q And your Uncle Bill, where does he live?
A He lives in West Fairview too.
Q So the Shattos are concentrated in the West
Fairview Township area?
A Yes, they are.
Q And are these people -- just with regard to
the family members, are they available to assist and help
you out if the need should arise?
A Yes, they are.
Q And do they all know your daughters?
A Yes, they do.
Q People that you've seen on family events or
occasions over the years?
A Probably once or twice over the last few
months that my children have interacted with almost all of
those family members.
Q Now, you started to mention -- would that be
it for family in the immediate area?
A Yes. I have other aunts and uncles and
things like that, my father's brothers and sisters who live
in the area too. Some of them are still in West Fairview as
well, but these are the ones I've stayed closer in contact
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with.
Q Are they available as well in the event that
the need should arise?
A Yeah, they would be as well, yes. Since my
mother's passing, there's been more of a gelling of the
family.
Q And do you have friends in the area as well?
A I do. I have some new neighbors in the
development that I live in now that in an emergency, needing
someone close, I could call upon them. Mr. Campbell is here
today, a very good friend I've known for many, many years.
He's actually, you know, helped watch my kids a little bit,
and he was single-handedly responsible for helping me move
on May 12th as well. He's been there for me.
Mr. Evans is here today. I don't count him
just as my boss, you know, president of our company. I've
known him for 21 years. If I needed to leave my children
with somebody in an emergency, I could think of nobody more
than him, his wife, his daughter who works for our company
as well who has a young child. I have a complete network of
associates and friends at the office I work at that I can
draw upon as well.
Q What I would like to do is just switch.
You've indicated that, in essence, you think that Vicki's a
good mom.
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A Yes.
Q And you've also testified that, you know, you
think that your kids should be involved with both of you.
Have there been any issues since the separation with regard
to your communication with Vicki on issues relating to the
kids?
A Yes, there have.
Q I would like to turn to tab seven. Generally
what does tab seven contain?
A Tab seven is a recent e-mail covering a lot
of issues that I was very concerned about regarding, you
know, healthcare arrangements, coordination of healthcare
arrangements, team work, and some other issues I was very
concerned about as far as actions my wife took.
Q Is a fair amount of the communication you
have with Vicki via e-mail?
A Yes, it is. We've tried to do oral
communication. We do do that occasionally. The intensity
of the relationship over the last few months usually ends us
getting off topic and unable to deal with the business issue
in front of us that needs to be handled for the children's
benefit. I found that e-mail is a much easier way to try to
communicate.
Actually, I had attended a seminar for
separating parents that was put on by Inner Works I
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voluntarily attended, and they really recommended that
e-mail was -- this is a way to do that. Keep this
confrontation, you know, off your own shoulders, keep it off
the kids, and use this tool to do that.
Q Let's just run through a couple of these
e-mails.
A I would like to, I guess, maybe give a quick
synopsis. This is a rather long one in the front, but it is
rather important.
THE COURT: I tell you what, I am going to
have a cup of coffee before we go through e-mails. You may
step down. We will reconvene at ten after.
(Whereupon, a brief recess was taken.)
THE COURT: Continue.
BY MR. HELVY:
Q Mr. Shatto, the first e-mail in Exhibit 7 is
dated August 13th. Is that from you to Vicki, correct?
A Yes, it is.
Q And could you just basically describe the
substance of this e-mail.
A The first paragraph basically is I'm about
ready to leave on vacation and Emma, who has an orthodontic
appliance, said she does not have the tool that's needed to
adjust it, and her mother hadn't adjusted it this week when
it needed done.
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I did this by phone as well and requested,
you know, is there a way you can get this tool to me. I
know Emma has two of these tools because she does not carry
it with herself. So the dentist has informed me that most
children her age can just take responsibility for this
theirselves and --
Q All right. So would you typically use e-mail
to just exchange this type of, you know, day-to-day
information with Vicki?
A Yes, I would.
Q And to ask for this type of day-to-day
information from Vicki?
A Yes.
Q And have you been successful in getting
responses to your inquiries?
A I have -- I could probably count on one hand
the number of replies I've had to any correspondence over
the last few months by e-mail.
Q Now, in the third paragraph you talk about
some biannual well child examination. Were there any
problems with that examination or getting it scheduled?
A Yes, there was. I try to keep Vicki up to
date on anything that happens. This is the pink eye
situation. I'm trying to tell her about the pink eye and
that Emma was not seriously -- she didn't have bacterial
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pink eye. It was just viral. I'm trying to keep her
informed.
The third paragraph is kind of expressing my
frustration. When I was in for my own physical
appointment --
THE COURT: Move on to something else. This
is not going to help me resolve this case.
THE WITNESS: Well, when --
THE COURT: Stop. Next question.
MR. HELVY: Your Honor, may I make just a
brief offer?
THE COURT: Yes. Make a general overview of
this but not in detail.
MR. HELVY: Your Honor, the purpose of these
e-mails is to show that generally Mr. Shatto has attempted
to provide the mother with all relevant information
regarding the kids.
THE COURT: I will admit them into the
record, and I can take a look at them.
MR. HELVY: And to show that that has not
been reciprocated. And one other point, you know, this
third paragraph he was about ready to launch into, he has
attempted to schedule doctors' exams for the kids. Mom has
cancelled the appointment, told him that, oh, no, the doctor
says that she doesn't need these. He's talked with the
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doctor. The doctor says, yeah, she does. He's scheduled,
she's cancelled, and then he's had to schedule again.
THE COURT: I understand the problems.
MR. HELVY: The point that we were going to
make, and this has happened not that exact example but this
type of thing numerous times, that it is our position that
unless father's given a substantial amount of time with the
children that he will not have the opportunity to be
involved with them as he has in the past.
THE COURT: I got it.
MR. HELVY: If I could just finish my offer,
and then I will move on, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
MR. HELVY: That he has tried to be involved
in the selection of the day care provider for the summer,
was not allowed to do that, has tried to be involved with
the selection of the resident in the elementary school area,
and he was not allowed to be involved with that.
He has suggested that they get involved in
co-parenting counseling because he wants to have the best
most effective co-parenting relationship possible. That
hasn't yet happened. He's even found somebody at Inner
Works that has strongly recommended that. He has attended a
seminar for separating parents and has suggested to his wife
via e-mail that she do that as well, and apparently they
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both have done that.
And then there's just one situation where
he's asking for -- mother went on vacation and didn't give
him really any way to contact the kids, and his concern
is that she had been gone to the Poconos over February
and --
THE COURT: You can have him get that out.
BY MR. HELVY:
Q Do you have a specific concern with regard
to being able to reach your kids while they're on vacation?
A Yes, I do. I'll briefly just cover two
specific issues. One was the vacation just in early July to
Cape May I wasn't provided with a physical location. I
hadn't been provided one for the Poconos trip either.
Q And the Poconos trip occurred when?
A That was in February. It was over the
weekend my mother passed away. My daughter asked me to call
her on the cellphone that my wife said that she would have.
I was able to get not in contact with them at all. I left
numerous voicemails. And then they almost did not return on
a school night until midnight. I was actually forced to --
Q Dave, slow down just a little bit.
A I'm sorry. I'm trying to cover things
quickly. I apologize.
Q Your mother passed away in February?
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A February 12th.
Q While your wife and your children were in t
Poconos?
A In some location, yes.
Q Had you been given any information regarding
where they went?
A I had no land line. I had no address,
nothing.
Q You had a cellphone number, correct?
A I had a cellphone number.
Q Did you try calling her?
A Multiple times.
Q Did she ever return your phone call?
A No.
Q So now t his is over a weekend, right, in
February?
A Yes.
Q Were the kids to go to school Monday morning?
A Yes, they were.
Q Sunday night did they come home?
A No.
Q So what happened?
A Around 11:00 or 11:30 after trying to get in
contact with her --
Q You said 11:00 or 11:30. Is that --
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A That's p.m. That's almost midnight. I
finally came to the decision that maybe Vicki and the
children were in trouble, they were off the road somewhere
not being able to be seen in the bad weather in the Poconos,
and I had to call the State Police and report with the
information I had to try to find my family.
The other specific issue would be the trip to
Cape May where my wife told me that the children would have
their cellphones with them. I think I mentioned that
earlier. I sent them many voicemails and text messages.
They still have not received these.
My wife told me they would have their phones
with them. She took them away. She's told the children
that she's lost them and put them in a box. She's lied to
my children and --
Q Dave, slow down.
A I'm sorry.
Q You mentioned Cape May.
A Cape May.
Q That was mom's vacation with the kids?
A Yes, it was.
Q That happened in May?
A No, Cape May happened in July.
Q And did you ever get information regarding
where they were going to be? Were you able to contact them?
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A No. That e-mail that we were mentioning
here, I did not get a response on where they would be.
Q So you had e-mailed your wife and asked for
specific information as to where they were going to be and
never got it?
A That's correct.
Q With regard to the children, do you have
reason to believe that your wife has made comments that you
deem to be inappropriate to the kids?
A Yes, I do.
Q Could you just tell the Judge what they are?
A I don't really try to have my children be
spies or anything, but the little voices come from the
backseat, you know. One week was, mommy says you're not
paying the support that's due.
Q First of all, is it true that you weren't
paying support?
A No, that was a lie.
Q Did you confront Vicki about making this
comment?
A Yes, I did.
Q Did she deny it?
A At first she said she wasn't getting the
support that was due.
Q Have you heard any other comments like that?
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A That one actually was before the separating
families seminar. We really learned that these comments can
damage a child's --
Q Okay. We all know that. Go on.
A The next comment was, you know, mommy says
that you never wanted to have children.
Q Again, is that a comment that's true?
A No, it's not.
THE COURT: Did you represent and are you
telling me you did together go to a separating family
seminar?
THE WITNESS: If I may, a neighbor
recommended it to me. I communicated it through Attorney
Helvy --
MR. HELVY: That's a yes or no question.
THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. Yes, we both
attended.
THE COURT: Together?
THE WITNESS: We didn't attend together. We
both showed up at the same place.
THE COURT: Good. Was there one seminar?
THE WITNESS: Just one, yes.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. HELVY:
Q And on the co-parenting counseling, did Vicki
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say, no, I'll never go?
A Well, the co-parenting therapy came out of
the conciliator's recommendations.
Q Okay, but answer my question. Has Vicki said
she would not go?
A No, she hasn't said that she would not go.
Q When did she say she will go?
A After the dust settles.
Q And how do you interpret that?
A I'm assuming sometime after the decision is
made based upon this.
Q So do you anticipate that the two of you will
go to this co-parenting counseling?
A I'm quite willing to go. I wish to strongly
recommend to the Court that we be required to go.
Q And, in fact, is there a provision for
co-parenting counseling in the proposed order which we're
going to review?
A Yes, there is.
Q Have there ever been situations where you
felt that the children were put in a situation where they
had to say something to you that was not the truth?
A Yes. Take a quick visit back to the Pocono
trip, and then roll forward from that about six weeks to
March 20th when the voice from the backseat said, daddy, I'm
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sorry I lied to you, but it wasn't Uncle Clark who was at
the Poconos with us, it was Mark, mommy's boyfriend.
Q So had the children previously told you or
had Vicki previously told you that she was with somebody
other than Mark, her boyfriend?
A They both had told me that they were there
with Uncle Clark.
Q And then one of your children fessed up that
that wasn't the case?
A Yes. She was feeling quite guilty about the
whole thing.
Q Exhibit 8, could you just take a look at
that.
MR. HELVY: Your Honor, these are just a
series of pictures of activities that he's engaged in with
his daughters.
THE COURT: I will accept it as that.
BY MR. HELVY:
Q I just see one thing. It looks like the kids
are trying on shoes or something. Do you go clothes
shopping with your daughters?
A I was very involved in their lives through
the entire marriage from their birth, baby clothes --
Q Do you go shopping?
A -- to now, yes, yes, very involved.
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Q Thank you. And would you go shopping with
them?
A Yes, I would.
Q Thank you. Could you tell the Court about
your philosophy with regard to discipline? Do you believe
in corporal punishment? How do you discipline the kids if
they need it?
A I'm not a big fan of corporal punishment. I
believe in identifying the issue, discussing it with the
children.
Q Dave, stop. Did you say you're a big fan of
corporal punishment?
A I am not a big fan of corporal punishment.
Let me make an emphasis on the not.
Q Just slow down a little bit.
THE COURT: Are these good kids?
THE WITNESS: They are very good kids. They
are great kids, and they normally respond to one or two
requests just to behave appropriately.
MR. HELVY: Okay.
BY MR. HELVY:
Q What do you think you provide to your
daughters that they don't get elsewhere?
A Well, of course they wouldn't get a male
gender figure influence elsewhere. But there's a lot of
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common interests we have, our love of music. There's a lot
of common interests in our love of computer activities, and
there's just a lot of one-on-one time that we provide.
That's what I provide as a parent. I'm told I'm a good
listener by my oldest daughter.
Q What is the schedule that you would like to
see the Court implement?
MR. HELVY: Judge, at tab nine we have our
proposed order.
BY MR. HELVY:
Q Don't go through the proposed order right
now. The Judge can do that. Just generally what is the
schedule you would like to see?
A Generally, I'm looking for a standard joint
custody arrangement which would provide custody of the
children to me Wednesday and Thursday nights and alternating
Friday and Saturday and Sunday nights through Monday
morning. I am very --
Q Just slow down. So you're looking for a --
is this something I've heard called as a two two five five?
A Yeah, a two two five five.
Q So let's just run through this. Mom would
I
have every Monday, Tuesday?
A That's correct.
Q You would have every Wednesday, Thursday?
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A That's correct.
Q And these are overnights?
A Yes.
Q And you would alternate that long weekend in
between?
A Yes.
Q Do you have any concern about, you know,
running the kids back and forth on a schedule like this?
A None at all. They've handled what we've done
up to now extremely well.
Q But what you've done up till now has been in
the summer, right?
A No, no. We had a couple months of school
year there, doing homework with the kids and everything like
that. No, it's not just been summer.
Q How did they tolerate the back and forth
during the school year?
A No problem at all. The only issues were, of
course, exchanges, you know, at 6:00 at night at some
restaurant that my wife would try to pick because she
opposes us going to each other's residences.
Q Now, this two two five five schedule, however
you want to call it, would that be the schedule that you
would recommend no matter what school district the Judge
decides they should go to?
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A Yes. This is just completely an independent
issue from the school district. I think we have a parental
choice that needs to be made between two school districts.
That's an independent issue. The children need maximum
exposure to both parents. Regardless of the school district
decision, you know, this is the custody arrangement that I
think should be in place.
Again, my concern is that the co-parenting
therapy be part of the order. If the co-parenting therapy
cannot be part of the order, I would ask that I actually be
provided a predominant custody position where I be given a
Tuesday night as well, where I have eight days out of every
fourteen just because I don't think I'm going to have any
type of influence or control over the children's healthcare.
All the legal -- all the legal custody decisions have just
been made unilaterally up till now by my wife. I won't have
that influence.
Q Your wife has suggested that you only see the
kids every other weekend and maybe an evening during the
week for dinner. Is that a schedule that you think is in
the best interest of the children?
A No, I do not.
Q And why do you think that your schedule is
more suitable for the children than mother's proposed
schedule?
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A It's what the children need. The children
need contact with both their parents. The children have
always historically had contact with both their parents
throughout the week. The separation anxiety would just be
horrible for the children, and then of course there's all
just the general statistical risks when both parents are not
involved, teenage pregnancy, suicide. I don't want to risk
that for my children.
MR. HELVY: Just to point out a couple of the
differences between our proposed orders. We have the same
vacation schedule in both proposed orders. There's no
issues there, Your Honor. I don't believe that mother's
proposed schedule had a no smoking provision.
THE COURT: You won't get me to micromanage
these people's lives.
MR. HELVY: Okay. I don't think that there's
any other real significant differences between the proposed
orders other than that physical custody schedule. I think
the summer schedule is identical, and the holiday schedule
is identical as well.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. HELVY: I have no further questions of
this witness.
THE COURT: Cross-examine.
MS. RADCLIFF: Can I ask a question, Your
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Honor, before I start cross examination?
THE COURT: Yes.
MS. RADCLIFF: It was my understanding that
this is only going to go to --
THE COURT: I have freed up some time here.
MS. RADCLIFF: Okay.
THE COURT: The 1:30 went off.
MS. RADCLIFF: That's fine.
THE COURT: We can roll here. We should be
able to get it done. Put it this way, I am going to get it
done.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q Mr. Shatto, could we talk about your
schedule, say, such as it was the year prior to you and
Vicki separating?
A Yes.
Q You were teaching at D.H. Evans, is that
correct? You were working at D.H. Evans?
A Yes.
Q And your normal schedule, what time did you
normally get to work and what time did you normally get
home?
A Normally I would get to work at 8:45 to 9:15
in the morning.
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Q And what time did you leave there in the
evening?
A
night.
In the evening, between 5:00 and 6:00 at
Q And you also taught classes, did you not, at
HACC?
A Yes, I did.
Q And your schedule at that time, you would
teach classes Mondays, Tuesdays and Wednesday evenings?
A No. The Tuesday evening was only a fall t
of thing.
Q But in the fall before separation, you were
teaching the Tuesday evening class?
A Yes, I was.
Q Were you not teaching it in the spring as
well?
A I had only taught that one spring because the
normal instructor who teaches almost all the Tuesday night
classes was not available and was on sabbatical. So I did a
favor for the college, and it of course helped us
financially as well to be able to do that for one semester
only.
Q That one semester was the spring of 2005 or
the spring of 2004?
A It would be the spring of 2004. In the
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spring of 2005, there was no Tuesday night.
Q So for approximately a year for the spring,
the summer and the fall, and I know summer is slightly
different, the spring you taught Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday
and Saturday, is that correct?
A For just that one semester out of all those
years, yes.
Q And then in the summer you taught Monday,
Wednesday and Saturday?
A No, there were never Saturday classes in the
summer at all. There was Monday, Wednesday class. I didn't
always teach both semesters in the summer either. It was
usually like a six week commitment.
Q And in the fall you taught Monday, Wednesday,
Tuesday -- Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Saturday?
A I believe for the last few years, yes, that
was correct. That would be a Monday, Wednesday judo, a
Tuesday self-defense class, which ended earlier than the
judo classes, and then the Saturday.
Q When you were teaching the evening classes
at HACC -- and you've been doing that for how long?
A I've been a member of the adjunct faculty of
HACC for 20 years.
Q And during that time period you were teaching
evening classes, is that correct?
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A Yes.
Q When you were teaching these evening classes
at HACC, is it not true that you would go directly from your
job at D.H. Evans to the HACC class?
A No, that's correct. I would go right from
the office to HACC.
Q And you would not come home on those evenings
until after the classes were over?
A That's correct.
Q And what time were the classes normally over
for the evenings?
A Based upon the judo classes, which are the
Monday, Wednesday type of arrangement, 8:05 the class ends,
and the self-defense classes we only run until 7:40.
Q So for the 8:05 classes, you would be home
between 8:30 to 9:00?
A Yeah, yeah.
Q And for the other class?
A 8:00, 8:15.
Q And during those -- and then on the Saturday
class, when you were teaching that, what time in the morning
would you get up?
A Get up in the morning? I guess it varies on
which morning. I guess 9:00 was probably a good time on
most Saturdays.
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Q Would it be fair to say that you got up
somewhere between 9:00 and 10:00 on Saturdays?
A It would really vary depending on the
weekend, what needs done.
Q And you would basically get ready and go
right off to HACC and teach that class too?
A Maybe, maybe have breakfast first.
Q And then after you taught that class, what
time did you come home?
A I would usually come home -- let's see, it's
over at 12:40. I was home about by 1:30, and we would go
out to lunch together.
Q So during the time period you were teaching
these classes at the various different times, the children
would be with Vicki, is that not true?
A I believe they were, yes.
Q So she would be -- since you weren't coming
home on the evenings, or up to three evenings a week, she
would pick them up from the latchkey program or the day care
provider and she would then bring them home and do whatever
had to be done with them to get them fed and get them
dressed and ready for bed and all of that?
A Well, that's true and it's not. Many times I
would call from the college actually and do my, I'm coming
home, would you like me to bring another meal home for the
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children if they haven't had enough, and many times I would
stop and bring pizza or subs home that they would have when
I got home then.
Q But for the most part, the routine was she
would get them from the day care, she would get them dinner,
she would get them bathed --
A Yes, yes.
Q -- help them with their homework, see that
everything was done, and they were either in bed or ready to
go to bed by the time you got home at night?
A That would be yes. Although it's my
understanding most of the homework was done in the latchkey
program.
Q Now, you also indicated that you were
involved in guitars.
A Yes.
Q How many guitars do you have?
A I have multiple collectible guitars, all
different instrumentation.
Q About seven or eight of them?
A Yeah, that's approximately correct, yes.
Q And you practice?
A Yes, I do.
Q And when do you practice?
A Whenever I have free time within all those
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schedules. As I mentioned, probably a Friday night when the
wife's watching TV and the kids are watching TV or a
Saturday afternoon after we've had a lunch and before we do
something for dinner.
Q So on an average week, how many hours would
you practice?
A I don't think there's an average week because
there's a lot of change throughout a year. I would say over
the course of this year I have probably averaged about half
an hour a month. Over the course of the prior year, maybe
an hour to two hours a week.
Q And was this an activity that you normally
engaged in by yourself since you were the one playing the
instrument?
A I had many visitors in the room. The
children were there, guests of the family, other children,
cousins. I remember lending a guitar book to my wife's
sister's child. There was a lot of interest even at the
family social events and things like that.
Q And you also spent a lot of time on the
computer, is that correct, doing the family finances?
A Predominantly doing the family finances,
that's correct.
Q And how many hours a week do you think you
spent on that?
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A Well, our family finances are rather complex,
and I think everyone is aware of that in this room. It
probably required a five hour commitment or so every other
week.
Q Your family finances are a disaster. Would
that be fair to say?
A I'm sorry?
Q Your family finances are kind of a disaster.
A I don't know if I would quite say they were a
disaster, but they do require a lot of attention.
Q Well, you owe about 187,000 on credit cards?
A Probably around that, yeah.
Q And that's over and above what you owe on the
marital home mortgage?
A Yes. We're not considering the marital
assets that are involved and the savings on the other side,
are we? So, yes.
Q Now, with regard to your music, you also
became extremely interested in The Who, is that correct, the
band, The Who, with Pete Townshend in particular?
A I've been interested in that band probably
since 1979 as well as other bands.
Q And, in fact, you ended up setting up a,
quote, family vacation where you were going to follow this
band around from place to place to place to place?
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A Yes. That would have followed the successful
family vacation to La Hoya with my parents and my children.
Q And at night you would leave Vicki and the
kids in the hotel and you would go off to all of these
concerts paying 200 to $250.00 for these seats, is that
correct?
A There wasn't a concert every night on the
tentative plan.
Q You probably went to about 18 concerts?
A No. Probably over that one summer, which is
just we're talking one summer out of all the years of the
touring and stuff, probably about 12 or so, 12 to 14 at the
most spread across two, two and a half months.
Q And this band, and Pete Townshend in
particular, they've got some questionable language in their
lyrics. Wouldn't that be fair to say? I mean language that
you wouldn't necessarily want your kids to hear.
A I would say, no. I'm going to interpret your
question as being more in line with some of these other edgy
bands where almost every word out of their mouth becomes a
foul word. That's not true at all. Actually, most of the
songs that were written by Pete Townshend of The Who
actually have spiritual basis and things like that.
Q But haven't there been several occasions
where you played the music in the car and Vicki's had to
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tell you that you need to turn it off because of the
language involved?
A No, it would not just be that band but bands
which my wife and kids would put into the CD player that
would have such language. I've talked to my children about
this. I've talked to my children very, very frequently
about bad words and what that really means and my children
have told me --
THE COURT: Whoa, whoa, whoa. You have
answered the question. I got the picture on the bands. Go
ahead.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q And did you not, in fact, kind of chase Pete
Townshend all around just trying to get him to autograph
your guitar?
A I wouldn't say I chased him around. If I
may, I'll discuss the topic if it's relevant.
Q Did you buy him a scooter so that he would
autograph your guitar?
A Actually, it was my scooter. Actually, if
you wish to go into the topic, I'll be free to discuss it.
THE COURT: Sir, it is such a simple
question. Did you buy him a scooter so he would autograph
your guitar?
THE WITNESS: I was giving him the scooter I
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used to ride with my children.
THE COURT: Next question.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q Now, you were talking about that you've got a
certain amount of flexibility in your job.
A Yes, I do.
Q If you stay home early in the morning, are
you expected to work later in the afternoon or you just
don't have to put the hours in at all?
A No. I either put my 40 hours in per week or
I need to use vacation time, which I have a significant
amount of every year as well.
Q Before you and Vicki separated, how many
times did you leave work in the middle of the day to take
care of your kids because they were sick?
A That's going to be tough to recall over the
many years. Most of the time when I took care of the
children they would be sick at the beginning of the morning,
and then I would stay home with them, similar to snow days.
Q So isn't it fair to say that for the most
part if there was an illness during the day the school
called Vicki and Vicki was the one who came home and took
care of them?
A I don't think I could make that conclusion.
Q But didn't she do that many times?
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A I believe most likely she was involved in
taking care of the children during the day as well with a
call like that, yes.
Q And is it also not true that if they were
sick in the morning there were times when you did it and
there were times when she did it?
A Predominantly me.
Q And would it also be fair to say that in the
afternoons the majority of the pick ups of the school -- of
the children at the day care center or the latchkey program
was done by Vicki because your hours were a little bit later
in the day and she got home earlier?
A I believe that's a fair statement, yes.
Q With regard to the recent incident of pink
eye, you said that the latchkey program or the day care
provider couldn't reach Vicki. Isn't it true that they
called you first because it was your day or evening to have
them and they hadn't even called her?
A Actually, I was upset that they called her
first because evidently they weren't quite up-to-date on the
custody schedule and who had them each night. They called
me and basically said we called your wife, and we've been
told she's out of town.
Q So if they called -- if she finally got a
hold of them and they told her that they never called her,
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they were telling her a lie?
A I don't know if I could say that would be
true or not because I know that I had a message on my
voicemail from one associate. The one I spoke with on the
phone was a different associate. So there might have been
two or three associates actually involved from the camp, and
she may have spoke to somebody who wasn't involved in the
initial conversation around 11:00 a.m. at all.
Q So you don't have any personal knowledge as
to whether or not Vicki was ever called at all regarding
this pink eye incident --
A I only --
Q -- personally? You weren't privy to the
phone call?
A No, no, I wasn't, no, no.
Q Now, you were talking about your schedule for
this fall and the fact that your one class, the Monday,
Wednesday class, has been cancelled. Is it possible that
that class will be offered again in the spring?
A It is possible, yes.
Q And if it is offered again in the spring, are
you planning on teaching it?
A I will only participate in teaching the class
if I can co-teach it with Rob Campbell, my other black belt,
so that we can split the evenings so that there would be no
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conflict between me and the custodial schedule that I have
provided. Otherwise, I will not be teaching it in the
future.
And, again, it's been told to me by the
college that it may have an indefinite future, that Mr.
Campbell should not even really have his hopes on maybe
teaching it sometime in the future if I do retire.
Q And how long had you taught that class on
Monday and Wednesday evenings?
A I'm trying to think if it was always Monday
and Wednesday evenings, but the class itself since about
1993.
Q And the Tuesday evening class that you had
been teaching, how long did you teach that class?
A That is going to be a hard one to call. It's
going to be a couple -- several years.
Q If you would start teaching again on any
evening that is designated for your time with the children,
would you permit Vicki to have them while you're teaching?
A I would. However, I've never been a fan of
baby-sitters, and I will not be putting the kids with a
baby-sitter at all to teach a class. At this point and time
I'm looking at myself as a single father, and I do not have
all the flexibility that I would have had when I was married
and having a partner. I do not have the flexibility of --
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THE COURT: Wait. I understand the answer.
Next question.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q You don't look at Vicki as being a
baby-sitter, do you, if you would use her on those evenings?
A Oh, no, no. I would prefer to have the
children with a parent. I think I've demonstrated that this
spring during the HACC Saturday classes.
Q With regard to the last day care provider,
the one that was at the Alphabet Express.
A Yes.
Q How long ago has it been since the children
have or either one of them have been in that day care?
A I think that was 2001. They went there
actually over the summer as well through 2001, August 2001.
That's probably -- the last year includes just Laura, I
believe, because me and Laura rode alone for a year.
Q So four years ago?
A Yeah.
Q And with regard to this, isn't it a fact that
Vicki is the one who chose that school, not you?
A No. Any decision on any of the care
providers throughout the marriage were mutual decisions.
Q I'm not saying it wasn't mutual decisions.
She was the one who chose it and brought it to your
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attention, the two of you discussed it and agreed upon it?
A I don't have that recollection.
Q And when the kids were going to that
particular day care, did Vicki come over and have lunch with
them?
A Without me present?
Q Um-hum.
A I wouldn't know.
Q Did she do that when they started school and
kindergarten, that she would take off time from work and go
have lunch with the kids at school and take off time and sit
in their classes and see how their classes were going and
things of that nature?
A At the day care center?
Q No, once they were in school at Green Ridge.
A If she was doing this, it wasn't with a lot
of consultation with me, no.
Q Do you think if she was doing it that that
was good for your children?
A I'm going to speak here in theory. Well,
some of it I think would be good. I think a regular
reoccurrence of that breaks their days up, and that probably
is not an appropriate thing to do.
Q When you said that you took the kids downtown
when they were at the Alphabet Express to have lunch with
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Vicki, isn't it true that you did that very, very
infrequently?
A Yes, that is true. Again, I lean more to the
side of don't break up your children's day. It just hurts
when they have to go back into the program in the afternoon,
especially at that age.
Q And I think you also said that there were
other times that you went over there and had lunch with
them. Is that what you told me?
A I didn't say that, no, no, no. Most of the
lunches I recall are ones that were family lunches, the
infrequent times that we went downtown.
Q You never went over to the day care and had
lunch with your children other than these downtown
incidents?
A I would go over and visit occasionally, but,
no, we never had huge sit down lunches or anything like
that, no.
Q When you would go over and visit
occasionally, would you call Vicki and say I'm considering
doing this, is it okay?
A No. Usually it was something like a
Halloween parade was happening that day or something like
that.
Q So this wasn't consulting with each other as
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to whether you were going to go have lunch with the kid or
spend a couple of hours with the kid? It isn't something
that was really necessary for either you to do or for Vicki
to do?
A No, no, it's not. I didn't mean to imply it
was inappropriate, no.
Q Now, speaking of Halloween, is it not true
that Vicki made all of the children's costumes for them at
Halloween?
A We bought some.
Q But she also made a great deal of them?
A Yes. And I was the one that took the
children trick or treating around the neighborhood every
year.
Q Now, how long have your children attended
Green Ridge Elementary?
A They've attended that since they left
Alphabet Express, so it would be about 2001.
Q Well --
A No, 2000 really. Emma started in 2000.
Q Since kindergarten?
A Since kindergarten, yeah.
Q So your one daughter, who's going into fifth
grade, has done five years?
A That's correct.
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Q And the other daughter, who's going into
fourth grade, has done four years, kindergarten and three?
She's getting ready to start the fourth.
A That's correct.
Q They've been doing well?
A Yes, yes. As of the last half of the year,
yes.
Q Do they like the school?
A Yes, they do, very much.
Q And well adjusted?
A Yes.
Q Have a lot of friends there?
A Yes, they do.
Q Have gotten along well with their teachers?
A Yes, they have.
Q It's true they would like to stay there,
isn't it?
A I believe they would.
Q And you have made comments in the past, have
you not, that if Vicki could arrange it so that they could
stay there you thought that that was a good idea?
A Well, I clearly have made statements and have
sent e-mails saying I would like to seriously review both of
the alternatives that we have in front of us as parents. I
would like to very much be involved in the whole arrangement
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at Green Ridge, including interviewing baby-sitters and
things like that that would become part of the whole plan,
and then sit down and make an intelligent decision on which
would be the best choice for our children which may not be
exactly what they would like. I unfortunately got faced
with no THE COURT: Wait, wait. You have answered
the question. Unfortunately I am going to have to make
these decisions now. Go ahead. Next question.
THE WITNESS: I'm sorry, Your Honor.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q Do you think it would be bad for them to stay
at this school? You said Cumberland Valley was a good
school and they've done well, they like the children, they
like the teachers, they're well adjusted.
A Can I say yes and no and express concerns?
Q Just yes or no. Do you think they would do
okay? It's not going to be bad for them to stay at this
school?
A I would think they would do okay, yeah.
Q And, in fact, this school was the one that
you and Vicki obviously chose when you chose the home that
you were going to live in?
A Actually we were -- no. Actually, we were
quite surprised that the school was almost five miles away
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when another school was just about a half mile or a mile
away.
Q But in living in that home, that was the
school that went along with the home, and you didn't make
any effort to move out and pick another school and say, gee,
I don't want them to go here, let's move and let's go
somewhere else?
THE COURT: They didn't move. Next question.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q You were talking about this vision therapy
that Laura went on. Isn't it true that Vicki was the one
that took Laura to those sessions?
A After the initial consultation with the
doctor, yes, she took them on nights that I was at the
college.
Q You were also talking about your morning
routine. Isn't it true that there were oftentimes that
Vicki would get up and make breakfast for the girls,
sometimes she would make eggs, sometimes it would just be
pop tarts?
A There were some infrequent occurrences of
that, yes.
Q And she would also lay their clothes out for
them to wear for that day?
A That is true. That is true. The clothing
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was a lot in my wife's ballpark, yes.
Q And she had expected you to get them up, to
get them dressed in those clothes, and to walk them to the
bus stop. Is that not true?
A I don't know if there was any discussion as
far as walking them to the bus stop at their age.
Q But, in fact, you didn't walk them to the bus
stop, you sat inside and looked at them from the window. Is
that not true?
A That is true. No parent walked their
children to the bus stop.
Q Now, you also mentioned parent/teacher
conferences. Is it true that you didn't attend all of the
parent/teacher conferences, you may have missed one or
two?
A At the very most probably one or two.
Q And Vicki attended all of them?
A Well, I guess for the one or two that I may
have missed I assume she was there.
Q And with regard to the one where you said you
went to the school to tape the special book report, the
reason Vicki wasn't there was your daughter Laura was home
sick and she had to stay home with her?
A I do not recall the reason why she was not
there.
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Q There were many field trips that Vicki went
on with the children at school, and this recent one to
Valley Forge was the only one that you ever attended?
A That's correct.
Q And is it also not true that around, I'm
going to say, February you decided that you were not going
to take the kids to school anymore or something, and that
was when they got put in the latchkey program?
A It became very evident by February that my
wife was no longer going to allow me to maintain the marital
residence and that we were both going to be forced to move
and that the kids would end up spending time with both of
us, and Vicki's inflexible work schedule would cause a need
for us to put them in a morning latchkey program.
Q But at the time you proposed putting them in
a morning latchkey program you still had your flexible
schedule and Vicki's schedule was still the same. They
didn't have to go into a morning latchkey program at that
point.
A No, but Vicki chose the timing of when that
happened.
Q But you were the one who suggested it?
A I did suggest it. I also suggested other
things of how we needed to plan for the future throughout
the divorce.
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Q And when you decided to move, you didn't have
to move out of the marital home at the time you chose to do
so. Is that not correct? You could have stayed there.
It's not sold. It's still on the market. You could have
stayed there.
A I had entered into a stipulation in early
April with Vicki to put the house on the market and get it
sold.
Q But nobody said that you had to move out of
the home. Is that not true?
A No, I could have remained there. However,
the area that I was moving into and selecting the home was
about to be acquired by somebody else, and the reservation
that I had on the townhome would have expired, and then I
would have not been able to acquire the townhome that I was
looking at. So I was forced by the builder, developer's
hand, to immediately acquire the residence.
Q And, in fact, you chose a townhome to move
into that was away from your children's general neighborhood
and schools and further away from where they live?
THE COURT: He chose the townhome he is
living in. I understand. Next question.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q Did you look at any homes locally, close by
to where they are?
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A There's very few -- I had dreams and visions
of maybe another smaller home in like the areas of the
preserve, which is right behind Westbury, and other areas.
I actually even considered building a smaller home in
Westbury, which is still right there, and unfortunately all
of those alternatives were as expensive or more expensive
than the current arrangement.
I actually went to the developer for the
development of Westbury that we lived in and tried to locate
any other townhomes that they had in the development that
would be in the Cumberland Valley area. There were not. So
I did make an attempt. But there seems to be a rather
shortage of both rental townhomes and townhomes, you know,
in the Green Ridge busing jurisdiction.
Q With regard to the children's activities, you
were talking about all of the various different homework
things that you did. Isn't it true that Vicki was primarily
responsible for doing their homework, especially during the
last year prior to separation because of your teaching
schedule?
A During the nights where I taught, yes.
Q And, in fact, there was at least one occasion
where she asked you for assistance to help Laura with a book
float project because Emma had gotten all mixed up and
hadn't done her project, and she was trying to get hers done
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and you refused to help?
A I don't recall that request.
Q And it was Vicki who took the kids to church,
isn't that true, you didn't go?
A That's not true.
Q She taught their Sunday school class, you
didn't teach their Sunday school class?
A I did not teach the Sunday school class.
Q And it was Vicki who was involved with
assisting with their brownies, you didn't do that?
A Other than attending events like the father/
daughter dance.
Q It was Vicki who was the squad leader for
cheerleading for them?
A I didn't recall that she had a title of squad
leader, but she was present at practices, yes.
Q And Vicki got your daughter Laura involved in
soccer, she signed her up for it?
A Yes, I believe she handled that paperwork.
Q And she got your one daughter involved in art
classes and took her back and forth to art classes?
A I was involved in taking and picking up as
well.
Q And in teaching piano?
A That she taught the children piano as well as
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I taught them guitar, yes.
Q And your kids kind of like to go camping,
isn't that correct? They like to pitch the tent out in the
yard, and that was something that Vicki did with them?
A That happened once.
Q It happened for an entire summer, didn't it,
where the tent was out in the front yard for quite sometime?
A No. The tent got put up at a time right
around I think a development campout type party, and it was
up for a couple days, I do recall, but I don't recall it
being up for an entire summer.
Q And for that development cookout campout
party, you didn't attend, did you?
A No, I did not.
Q And Vicki was the one who took the kids and
went out to the tent and slept with them all night long?
A Yes, she did.
Q And for the most part it was Vicki who took
the kids to the doctors' appointments?
A Medical doctors I would say, yes. Dental an
vision, I was actively involved.
Q Now, I saw in one of your e-mails you were
looking into soccer programs over where you live for your
daughter Laura.
A Yes.
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Q Why would you not have her in the same soccer
program that she's used to?
A I believe that the soccer program and the
school district choices need to go together. If the Court
decides that the children go to Susquehanna Township, I
don't think they should go to the Cumberland Valley soccer
program and vice versa.
Q So you think it's good for these kids to have
to change schools, change soccer programs, change all these
additional things in their lives? Do you think that's
healthy for them?
A I believe it would be a one time adjustment,
and of course I do have the concerns I have over the current
jump through hoops plan to keep them in the old school.
Q Now, you talked about Vicki possibly moving.
You don't have any knowledge of any current plans that she
plans on moving, do you?
A No. My testimony earlier was just based upon
conversations I had with her between February and June.
Q And, in fact, I believe she's told you that
if she moves at all it would be for her to try to find a
house back in the Green Ridge School District?
A That was the last statement I believe we
heard, yes.
Q And she hasn't been able to do so thus far
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because she doesn't have any money, is that correct?
A I can't answer that question. I do not know.
Q With regard to the baby-sitter, Sue Knaub,
you've known her for quite sometime, haven't you?
A Yes, I have.
Q And, in fact, I believe at one time you were
considering asking her husband to come and testify for you
at this hearing?
A I had sent him an e-mail.
Q And so you don't really have any opposition
to Sue as a person or as having the ability to watch your
kids, do you?
A As far as Sue as a person, I have no
objection to that.
Q And do you know of any of the people who
watch kids in the latchkey program over at the Y that's
associated with the school you want them to go to?
A Oh, no, I've had conversations with the
director and the coordinators for those programs over
there.
Q But not the actual people who run the
program?
A No. I have had telephone conversations with
the actual director at that school, such at the Thomas
Holtzman School where they'll be enrolled in.
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Q But do they not hire the director -- do they
not hire somebody to run the day-to-day program, the one who
won't actually be with the kids? I don't think the
director's actually with the kids, are they?
A I think she is on site, and there's a
cellphone number there, but I don't know if she's on site
every minute of the day. They do an extensive amount of
background checking and things like that on their staff.
Q I'm not saying there's anything wrong with
the staff. I'm just asking whether or not you know who the
staff is going to be.
A No, I don't know the individual people, no.
Q And you also mentioned that Sue isn't
certified. She doesn't have to be certified, does she, to
watch your two kids?
A No. But as I mentioned, using most YMCA
programs, you can be a little more comfortable that
background checks have happened, that certifications are
there, that first aid training -- I'm not sure if Susan has
first aid or CPR training. I don't have that answer. Maybe
Vicki has that answer, I don't.
Q When you lived in the development over at
Westbury, did your kids have a lot of friends there?
A Their closest friends didn't live there, but
they had friends there, yes.
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Q Who are their closest friends?
A Emma's closest friend is Kayla Sollenberger,
and I believe she and her mother, who is divorced from her
father, live in the same development that Vicki does now.
Amanda Huester (phonetic) is Emma's other friend, and I
think they kind of go back and forth to the first and second
type of category as best friends.
Laura, on the other hand, doesn't have a lot
of girlfriends. Her friends are a boy named Michael Hern
(phonetic). Another is Collin Clark who's been a friend for
many, many years, probably since kindergarten. Sara Kise
(phonetic) is one of Laura's only girlfriends. With Laura,
she doesn't really have as many good friends, not that she's
not a friendly child and doesn't have a lot of friends and
things.
Q Has Vicki, to your knowledge, tried to
maintain these friendships for the girls since you
separated?
A I know that there's an active relationship
with Kayla since she lives just up the street.
Q And what efforts have you made to see that
the girls maintain these contacts with these friends when
you have them?
A Well, actually last night I was just making
calls to Sara Kise's mother, Virginia, who I had spoken with
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earlier, trying to get in contact with Collin Clark. I
don't have a phone number for him yet. Maybe Vicki can help
me there. I've called Michael Hern's dad.
I'm trying to arrange a little birthday party
that me and Emma are planning for Laura on September 17th.
So we're trying to get that together. I'm trying to decide
whether to invite Kayla Thompson who, you know, her mother
had me watch her at the Hampden pool a couple of weeks ago
when I was there all day with the kids, and she might be
another good friend to invite to Laura's party.
I am trying to make an active commitment so
they continue with old friends, and I think that would help
ease the school district transition, I really do. That's
really one of my concerns as a parent, to ease that
transition if it does occur.
Q With regard to these events you were just
describing, were they being scheduled on Vicki's weekend or
your weekend?
A That's my weekend, the 17th.
Q And have there also been times when you have
scheduled doctor's appointments without telling Vicki?
A The only doctor appointment that I have
scheduled without Vicki's notice was Emma's well child
appointment that the doctor recommended that she needed. I
didn't know -- as Vicki had tried to frustrate my efforts to
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get things signed up in the Susquehanna area by not giving
me birth certificates and things like that, I didn't think
she may be as cooperative in getting the health consent fo
done.
As I mentioned with that appointment, I did
schedule that. Vicki called and cancelled it. I
rescheduled it. I was about ready to go there, and the
doctor's office called and said we're getting really
frustrated with your wife, she's cancelled it again, in fact
she's tried to leave with the health consent form that you
left here in her file and --
Q Mr. Shatto, it was a very simple question.
THE COURT: He answered it, and he answered
it properly. Next question.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q With regard to -- you were talking about
your closeness to your family. Is that a fairly new
development?
A No. But I would describe it that there has
been dynamic changes within the family relationship since my
mother's passing on February 12th.
Q Would it be fair to say that with regard to
contact with your family up to this point, up to the point
of separation, that you only saw them on holidays,
birthdays, you didn't maintain --
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A Major holiday celebrations, that would be a
true description, yes, yes.
Q And there were oftentimes when Vicki's family
would come around to your house to visit with the girls and
with the two of you that you would go off into the bedroom
and either lift weights or work on your computer or play
your guitar and you would not participate?
A These were infrequent occurrences but, yes,
that probably would be true. Again, this story I had
regarding the nephew coming in and actually enjoying and
wanting to learn more about guitar, me lending him the book,
yes, it was part of the event.
Q And you went to one event, I think it was a
recital one of your daughters was in, and during that
recital you sat in the audience and pulled out your laptop
and worked on it?
A I did not pull out a laptop computer.
Q You went to a recital for Mary Schmidt's
daughter and you sat there --
MR. HELVY: Objection, relevance.
THE COURT: Sustained. Next question.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q And there have been many other parties that
you've gone to where you kind of withdraw and either play on
your laptop or sit off by yourself and let the child rearing
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and playing and fun to Vicki and Vicki's friends?
A No, I think that's an unfair assessment.
Q When you were in Cleveland recently on your
vacation, did you give Vicki information as to where you
were?
A I was actually hoping Vicki would follow my
lead and request that information.
THE COURT: No, no, no.
THE WITNESS: No, I did not.
THE COURT: Next question.
MS. RADCLIFF: That's all I have.
THE COURT: Any redirect?
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. HELVY:
Q With regard to your work schedule, I think
you said on cross that if you came in late you may have to
work some extra hours to make up for that. Do you have the
ability to work at home?
A I do at that.
Q And if, for example, you were to stay home
because one of your kids are sick or had to do something to
take care of your kids and missed time at work, could you
make that time up at home after the kids went to sleep?
A I could make it up after they went to sleep
or over the weekend, yes.
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Q Is that the type of thing that you
historically have done?
A I would do that. The biggest thing about
being able to work from home though is to meet critical
business events that still need to maybe occur in a day when
I couldn't be physically located in the office, and our
computer setup at home always enabled me to do that.
Q With regard to the school issue, would it be
accurate to state you have no objection to Green Ridge as a
school, correct?
A No. I think Green Ridge is an excellent
school.
Q Could you just clarify for the Court what
your concerns are with the current plan that would involve
the kids continuing involvement with Green Ridge?
A There's just a few. One, of course, I
strongly believe that the children should be with a parent
instead of a stranger if possible. The Green Ridge plan
would not allow that. I would like to minimize the double
travel, the consumption of the children's day just being
somewhere waiting and then not having much time in the
evening because you have to get up so early and the whole
thing.
I have concerns that, you know, mid year the
baby-sitter could quit and we would be up in a limbo. I
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have concerns that the baby-sitter only lives a couple
houses from our home, and I've witnessed Emma break down in
tears over missing her old home, and the fact that she'll be
tortured with this every day for another school year kind of
bothers me as well.
I know that Emma and Laura both enjoyed the
organized latchkey program. They really want that. They
asked for that. The mother implied that they might still be
able to do that even though it's not true. She's being led
on -- my daughters are being led on. They can't do the
latchkey program. I think they would be better in an
organized latchkey program. They made friends over the
summer at this latchkey camp even though they had very few
going in. They will adjust.
Q Now, with regard to Mrs. Knaub.
A Yes.
Q Would it be accurate to state that she is a
perfectly nice lady and you have no concerns with her as an
individual?
A Other than where she lives, yes.
Q But do you see a distinction between the
stability of care that would be provided by an institutional
arrangement versus one for an individual?
A Well, the biggest concern I have is over pick
up time, and, again, Mrs. Knaub has got to leave her house
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and you've got to go to some soccer field because her
husband's coaching soccer, coaching baseball, and he won't
be available either. It's going to be a very disorganized,
chaotic type of situation.
Q Are you aware of any contingency plans in the
event that Miss Knaub should be ill or unavailable for
whatever reason because of her own kids' needs to take care
of your children?
A No, I'm not, Mr. Helvy. I know very little
details and was not involved in putting the plan together.
Q Did you try to be involved?
A I tried to be involved, yes, I have.
MR. HELVY: Nothing further, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Anything else?
MS. RADCLIFF: Nothing.
THE COURT: You may step down. We will take
another ten minute break. Next I want to hear from the
mother.
(Whereupon, a brief recess was taken.)
MR. HELVY: Your Honor, before we get
started, just so I don't forget, can I move the admission of
my exhibits?
THE COURT: They are admitted.
MR. HELVY: I have P-1 through 10 in the
notebook, and then we had an additional map which I believe
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I had inadvertently referred to as P-10. I've since
remarked that. We'll call the map P-11, and I would move
for the admission of P-1 through P-11.
THE COURT: They are all admitted. Proceed.
Whereupon,
VICKI JO SHATTO,
having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q Would you please state your full name.
A Vicki Jo Shatto.
Q How old are you, Vicki?
A Forty-three.
Q And your date of birth?
A November 21, 1961.
Q Where were you born?
A Pensacola, Florida.
Q Where do you currently reside?
A I reside at 1112 Cross Creek Drive,
Mechanicsburg, PA.
Q And how long have you resided at that
address?
A Since March 22nd, 2005.
Q And do you rent or do you own that property?
A I'm renting.
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Q And are you looking to buy something, hoping
to buy?
A
am.
I am hoping to buy a home eventually, yes, I
Q Does anyone else live with you at that
location?
A My daughters, Emma and Laura.
Q And you heard your husband, Dave, testify
about their ages and birth dates. Was he correct on those?
A Yes, he was.
Q You have a document in front of you that has
been marked as Defendant's Exhibit No. 1.
A Yes, I do.
Q Can you tell me what that is?
A Yes. The first picture is a picture of Laura
at the Baltimore Zoo during one of the field trips I
attended. I took the picture. That, in fact, is Collin
Clark right beside her, one of her best friends.
MS. RADCLIFF: Your Honor, for your
reference, there are copies up there.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q And where did this particular picture come
from?
A One of the field trips that I attended.
Q No. Where was it physically located?
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A The Baltimore Zoo.
Q Was it located in your house?
A Oh, no, at the zoo. Oh, this was in my
office. This is one of the pictures that I have in my
office.
Q Okay. Go ahead, picture number two.
A That's Laura, and that is her third grade
picture. And that's Emma's fourth grade picture, number
three.
Q And picture number four.
A That picture was taken at the American
Girl Store up in New York City. Emmy and Laura and I had
dinner there one evening while Dave was at one of his Who
concerts. We hung out there for a little bit.
Q Go ahead.
A Someone was kind enough to take a picture of
the three of us. I have very few pictures of the three of
us.
Q Why, are you usually the one taking the
pictures?
A Yeah.
Q Where did you live prior to March of 2005?
A 5525 Westbury Drive in Enola.
Q And that was the marital home?
A Correct.
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Q And you lived there with Dave, your husband,
as well as your two daughters?
A Correct.
Q Can you tell me when you moved in there?
A Yeah, it was mid February of 1986.
Q '86?
A Laura was born in '96. Excuse me, February
of 1996.
Q Okay. How far did you go in school?
A I graduated from high school, and I have two
years in at HACC.
Q And are you currently employed?
A Yes, I am.
Q Where are you employed?
A I work for the government. I work for the
Railroad Retirement Board.
Q And what is your job position there?
A I'm a claims representative.
Q And where is the Railroad Retirement Board
center where you work? Where is it located?
A Downtown Harrisburg in the federal building.
Q What are your work days and hours?
A I work Monday through Friday 8:00 to 4:30.
Q And what time do you normally leave for work
and what time do you get back?
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A I normally leave about ten of 7:00. I drop
the kids off at latchkey about 7:00, 7:10, something like
that. I try to get on the road by 7:20. I try to get to
work on time at ten of 8:00 or five of 8:00, something like
that. I work until 4:30 then, and sometimes I leave at
quarter of 5:00, ten of 5:00, it depends on what I'm up to,
and I do get the children after I get off work.
Q Was that the schedule that you were following
when they were in the Y latchkey program?
A That's correct.
Q Did it change at all this week when they had
been staying with Sue Knaub?
A Yes, it did, greatly.
Q How did it change?
A Sue was kind enough to watch the children for
me on Monday. This particular week is a week between the
summer camp program ending and school starting, so I didn't
have any child care arrangements, and I had to make sure I
had that covered.
And because the kids would be spending time
with Sue this next year, we thought it would be a good idea
to give them an opportunity to get a feel for the place and
get used to the family and that sort of thing. So Sue
offered to watch Emma and Laura on Monday, and they were
there all day.
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And Tuesday and Wednesday of this particular
week my mother jumped on the opportunity to watch these kids
and spend time with them and have fun with them, and she has
had them Tuesday, Tuesday night, Wednesday. I was up there
Tuesday night. She had them Tuesday night, and I went up
after work and spent the evening there, slept overnight.
In fact, Emma and Laura went up to her place
Monday night, and we slept overnight so that they wouldn't
have to get up and they could sleep in. And they, in fact,
I understand, slept in until 10:30.
I was up at 5:00 and out of the house to work
by 7:00, and then I went up to her place Tuesday night and
spent, like I said, supper and all night with them and --
Q Okay. We can go on forever with the actual
hours. How long have you been employed by the Railroad
Retirement Board?
A I've been there since October of 1985.
Q And you are, in fact, married to Dave Shatto?
A Yes, we're married.
Q And you were married on February 23rd, 1986?
A That's correct.
Q Were either one of you married before?
A No.
Q And he's testified about his residence.
A Yes.
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Q And that was accurate?
A Yes.
Q Tell me about the status of the marital home
located at 5525 Westbury Drive?
A It's a financial burden. Nobody's residing
in that home. We now have a mortgage to pay on that home,
and we're trying desperately to sell it.
Q Can you tell me why neither one of you live
there?
A I feel that I was forced to leave. I pleaded
with Dave. I wanted him to move out. I wanted to stay
there until we got through this divorce and got everything
taken care of. I wanted the kids to stay there. I don't
want to keep the home. I just wanted to somehow make it as
smooth as I possibly could.
He refused to move out, he would not, despite
the fact that his parents owned rental property that he
could move into, you know, and I knew that would not be an
option for me, but he could have utilized that.
Q So you moved?
A So I had had it. I was ready.
Q At that time was he indicating to you that he
wanted to keep the home?
A Yes, he was alluding to the fact that he was
going to try to keep it.
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Q And then what happened?
A In my mind, I thought he had moved out within
a month, you know. Based on everything he testified it was
slightly after that, but I thought it was within a month.
Q And did that cause you any concern?
A Yes, it's a financial burden, you know. He
bought a new home, and now we have more debt, you know, more
responsibilities there to pay.
Q Did his choice of where he went to live cause
you any concern?
A My thoughts regarding his choice was that it
was more convenient for him. It fit into his lifestyle.
Q Has that been a theme throughout your
marriage?
A Yes.
Q Has he done anything else recently involving
the children that also caused you concern about finances?
A Emma and Laura were very, very excited at one
point when they came back to me, and they told me that he
went shopping with his father, their granddad, and spent
over a thousand dollars on the credit card, and, you know,
it blew me away. You know, I can imagine as a child or as
anyone, you know, trying on clothes, they must have had a
ball, the kids.
Q You guys have a lot of credit card debt?
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A Yeah.
Q How did that happen?
MR. HELVY: Your Honor, I'm going to object
to the relevance.
THE COURT: Sustained. They got it. It
boggles my mind. Continue.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q What kind of special interests did your
husband involve himself in?
A He's very, very much into the band The Who.
I shared that with him during the first couple years of
our marriage or so and tried to be a part of that. I got
sick of it real quick. He's into music, and because of that
he's into playing the guitar.
He's into computers greatly. As he
mentioned, he can work out of the home because he created a
server in our home, and he's able to connect everywhere
under the sun, you know, and work on his computer and he
does. He's very into it. He's obsessed with it.
Q Has he made choices about his involvement
with the band, The Who, that you thought took time away from
the children --
A A lot.
Q -- or were bad for them?
A Well, yeah. On one weekend in particular, we
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went up to New York City. I'm not quite sure if it was this
weekend, I don't think it was, in that picture, where he had
been e-mailing Pete Townshend's personal secretary and had
tracked him down to a period of time when he would be in New
York City.
So Dave planned on going up to New York City
to have this collector's guitar signed by him to increase
the value of this guitar. And, you know, we literally sat
in a hotel for hours not doing much of anything, the girls
and me, you know, and Dave was there too, you know, just
waiting around for this Nicola, is what her name was, to
call Dave so that we could arrange a time to meet with Pete.
As it ended up, we never met with Pete. We
just met with her. We dropped the guitar off, and then they
took the guitar off to have Pete sign it, and then we had to
wait to get it back. So that was a great inconvenience.
You know, we didn't get home until midnight or 1:00 during
that jaunt. The children had to go to school the next day
and all.
Q What about this Who vacation you were talking
about that?
A It blew me away. I could not see myself
going to all those concerts. I had trouble seeing myself at
that point going to one concert, and I tried very hard to
understand what was going on at that point.
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Q So what was proposed, what happened?
A He wanted to take the whole family, Dave's
mom and dad and the four of us, and just go from city to
city. He wanted to see The Who at nighttime, and I guess we
were to hang out at the pool, you know, from what he told
me, you know, during the day. I guess I should have been
satisfied with that.
But it was right -- you know, it worked into
a period of time where, you know, school was starting. And,
you know, he went, and I put the girls on the bus that first
day of school. That morning I was looking around for a
camera and had realized that I had no cameras, you know, to
even take pictures of the kiddos and realized that Dave took
the digital cameras with him. You know, it was just -- it
was a very negative time.
Q Did you always take pictures of the kids on
their first day of school?
A Oh, yeah, and I took off year after year on
the first couple of days, yes.
Q But the actual vacation, you said he
envisioned that this was going to happen and that was going
to happen. Did you actually go on this vacation?
A No.
Q Did he go on the vacation?
A Yes.
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Q So you and the girls --
A We hung at home.
Q -- you hung at home while he went from city
to city to city, is that correct?
A That's correct.
Q What about the scooter?
A Yeah, apparently there was another gift too I
think Dave had bought him. I forget what it was. You know,
he was just, I think, showing appreciation for Pete signing
that guitar.
MR. HELVY: Your Honor, I'm going to object
to the relevance of this scooter.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q With regard to the music and his involvement
with The Who, did he play the music in the car?
A Yeah. The Who is screaming all the time
pretty much with their lyrics, yeah.
Q And was that in the car when the children
were present?
A Yes.
Q And did you have any response to him as a
result of that?
A Yes.
Q Can you tell me what that was?
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A I told him to turn it off.
Q And why did you tell him to turn it off?
A Because of the language, it's as simple as
that. It was just, you know, you never know when this is
going to pop up or, you know, that F word and this F word.
Q And did you think that was inappropriate for
your children to hear?
A Definitely.
Q And what was Dave's response?
A He would just turn it down. He would try to
catch it, you know. He would try to catch the moment when
he thought Pete would sing that particular phrase or
whatever and then try to turn it down.
Q Who is the children's regular physician?
A Doctor Richard Davis from Cumberland Family
Practice.
Q And do either one of the children have any
special needs?
A No, not particularly. Emma has some slight
allergies. That's about it.
Q What was this thing about the vision therapy?
Can you tell me about that?
A Yeah, I can. Dave wears contact lenses, and
he's, you know, pretty much in and out of the office quite a
bit. And he recognized that Laura and Emma did not have a
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formal eye exam, and they had not.
However, they had been -- they had been
in school. I'm there in the school. I'm communicating
with the teachers. I never saw a problem with eyesight.
They have their exams there. They're not as detailed, I
guess, from what I understand, as they are in an eye
doctor's. However, really there's never been anything
brought up -- brought to my attention that that was a
problem ever.
Q And did the kids -- did Laura get signed up
for this program?
A Yes, yes.
Q And did she complete it?
A No, she did not.
Q And why did she not complete it?
A Well, we went through it, and I guess towards
the end, you know, she started expressing a lot of
discontent, and also it was very expensive. It was very,
very expensive. We went through a period of time where we
were unsure as to whether or not insurance would pay for it,
and we were paying for it out-of-pocket. It was $2,000.00
for, like, I don't know, like, 13, 14 weeks or something.
It was very expensive.
Q Did you think you could afford it?
A No, I didn't.
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Q And is that why you terminated it?
A Yes.
Q Did she have any improvement in her
schoolwork after she entered this program or after she
completed it?
A I did see -- I saw improvement with Laura.
The whole theme of that program is focus, and I really think
it did help her focus on whatever it was she needed to focus
on.
Q And she had ended the program when?
A I believe it was, like, mid January.
Q And the biggest improvement of her
schoolwork, when did that occur?
A Towards the end of the school year.
Q More like April and May?
A Right.
Q Tell me about involvement with regard to
medical treatment, like who made doctor's appointments, who
went to them, that kind of thing.
A I feel that I was the primary caregiver
there. I recognized an illness. I scheduled the
appointment. I took the time off work to take them to the
appointments, and I did it. I stayed home with them if they
were on an antibiotic or something, you know, was infectious
and they couldn't go back to latchkey or school or whatever
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the issue was, it was me.
Q Did he take the girls to any of the
appointments?
A No, it was me.
Q Did he ever stay home with them when they
were sick?
A He stayed home with them -- if I recognized
they had a fever the night before and I was concerned about
getting them in the next day, we then had the ability to
talk about our schedules and figure out who would stay
home, and there were times he stayed home. But there were
times -- many times I stayed home too, you know. This was a
shared responsibility, and there were times he had meetings
that he could not cancel and it was -- again, I would stay
home with them.
i
Q If the kids got sick during the day at
school, who got called, who went?
A Me period.
Q Was it never Dave?
A Never.
Q With regard to this recent pink eye incident,
can you tell me what happened?
A I believe that some bad decisions were made
by some of these instructors at the summer camp program. I
think they're very aware of the fact that we're going
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through this major life change, and they were aware of the
fact that that was Dave's evening, and they called him
because of that.
Q Had they called you and not been able to
reach you?
A What they had done is after they had called
him they called me directly and said we just contacted your
husband and he's on his way. We feel Laura has pink eye,
and, you know, he's going to pick her up. I was livid, you
know, but I did not call him. I did not complain. I did
not create any type of problem within the program.
It was right at the end of the summer camp
program. It would have been immaterial for me to create any
problems or complain or file any type of grievance or
anything like that.
Q So you allowed him to take care of the
problem that particular day?
A That's correct.
Q And it wasn't as a result of your not being
available?
A That's correct.
Q Do you know of anytime when you haven't been
available during the day to be able to take off of work and
go take care of the kids?
A Absolutely not. I can leave at the drop of a
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hat if somebody calls me.
Q And you have a substantial amount of vacation
days that you can take also when they're sick?
A Yes. I earn five weeks a year.
Q Can you tell me if you've had any other
difficulties with regard to medical matters between you and
Dave, making decisions, keeping each other informed?
A I guess he went ahead and went on this roll
to get Laura enrolled in the Susquehanna Township School
District and recognized he needed some physicals completed
to have some forms done.
Q Did he consult with you about that
enrollment?
A No, he did not. I, in fact, took Emma into a
doctor's appointment like a week and a half before that, and
it was brought to my attention that she had another
appointment there scheduled. I was dealing with Doctor
Tocks at that point, and, you know, I have really fond
memories of that doctor's appointment. He was having a lot
of fun with Emmy. They were just interacting. They were so
cute.
But, anyhow, I focused on it. I said, my
husband and I are going through a divorce, and he wants th
to go to a different school district. There's different
latchkeys. There's forms that need to be completed, and
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he's recognizing that he needs to have this physical
completed in order to get this form done and --
Q Did the doctor's office already have the
form?
A Yes, I think they did at that point. And
what he told me is, Vicki, she's not going to need that.
Based on what I did tonight that form can be completed.
Q And so as a result what did you do?
A I cancelled it.
Q And did you let him know?
A I did.
Q And did you let him know the form could still
be filled out without the appointment?
A I did.
Q And he went ahead and rescheduled the
appointment anyway?
A Yes, he did.
Q One of the major issues, obviously, in this
thing is what school these kids are to attend. Last year
they attended Green Ridge, is that correct?
A Correct.
Q And they've been at Green Ridge since how
long?
A Kindergarten.
Q And how are these kids doing in school?
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A Fantastic.
Q Are they well adjusted?
A Very.
Q Happy?
A Very.
Q Have lots of friends there?
A Yes.
Q How do they get along with the teachers?
A Very good.
Q You have a document in front of you marked
Defendant's Exhibit No. 2. Can you find it?
A Yes.
Q And those a re the report cards for last year?
A Yes.
Q And do they accurately reflect how they did
in school?
A Yes.
Q Now, in looking at Laura's in particular, her
report card, it looks like she's somewhat inconsistent but
markedly improved by the end of the year.
A Yes.
Q Can you tell me what you attribute that
improvement to?
A I went through a period of time with the
girls where when I was picking them up from latchkey they do
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have a lot of time between when school ends and when I pick
them up to do their homework, and they do take advantage of
that. It's a peer thing, you know, a competition type thing
with each other.
They were telling me they were doing their
homework, and, you know, I wanted to trust in their words,
you know, I really did, and I believed them. I went through
a period of time where I realized that they were not getting
their homework assignments done there, and then we buckled
down, mom got mad, and, you know, they had to prove to me
when things got done. That's when you see the better grades
happening is when I said put it in my hand.
Q Did you get any support from Dave for this
position?
A No.
Q What was his reaction?
A You know, he accuses me of calling them
liars and that I don't believe what they say and that I put
them on the spot, you know, in front of them. It's a
conversation that two adults, you know, I believe should
have in private, you know, if he's not happy with how I'm
dealing with something. But right in front of the kids, you
know, he's saying, Vicki, you're calling her a liar, you
know.
And, you know, I went through a period of
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time where I felt that I wanted her to believe that I
believed in her words, and, you know, that was that period,
you know, okay, you're telling me things are done, I'm
letting you go. And now we're in a position where they've
got to prove it, they just have to prove it.
Q Who was responsible for working with them on
their homework and making sure it got done?
A I was.
Q What kind of approach did you take to doing
homework? What would you do with them?
A Drill. I was a drill sergeant. I made it
very uncomfortable.
Q Give me some examples about how you would
drill with them.
A Well, with spelling words I made them take,
like, five and six tests until they got all the words right.
I remember Emma making a comment one time, it's okay if I
get one wrong, mom, they say it's okay, you know.
But, you know, she's a very bright, young
lady, and, you know, she could do very well. She doesn't
have to take anything less than, you know, what she can do.
If I can get her to study and learn all the words and get an
A, you know, I want her to get the A and not take the B.
Q And how much time do you think you would
spend with them at night doing homework?
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A It depended, an hour and a half, an hour, an
hour and a half, something like that.
Q Other than drilling with words, spelling
words, were you involved in grading school projects or
anything of that nature?
A I did a lot of book reports with them and
projects, different projects with them that they would bring
home.
Q Were these activities that would take a
single night or would they be spanning over several nights?
A Those particular activities were projects
that would span over a period of time, yeah.
Q Tell me what Dave's involvement was.
A He had none until just recently. Well, when
we decided that we were going to get divorced, he kicked in
and did one of the projects that he mentioned earlier. He
did focus on numbers with them, and, you know, in the car we
would be moving from point A to point B, and he would say
what's four times four, you know, that kind of thing. So he
did bring numbers to light in their lives.
Q But on the every night --
A No.
Q -- sitting down and doing homework, how much
participation was he in?
A That was me.
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Q So he was not normally involved?
A No.
MR. HELVY: Objection, relevance. I'm sorry,
objection, leading.
THE COURT: Overruled. It's innocuous.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q Do you have any particular recollection of
an incident where Emmy had forgotten to do a book report?
A Yeah. Emma had, like, four to six weeks to
read a book, and then she had to do a book report on it.
Throughout that period of time I did ask her routinely, did
you read a page? Do you have a chapter done? And, you
know, I was trusting in what she was telling me. She was
saying, yes, that she had this done.
And then that particular Friday night came
around, and I recognized that this book report was due on
Monday. I said, okay, this is the weekend you're going to
put it all together.
So when we started sitting down and I started
pulling all the information together based on this outline
that the teacher had given us, I realized that she knew very
little about what was going on in this book. And I said,
you didn't read it, did you? She said, no.
Q And then what did you do?
A We had to read it. So we sat on the sofa an
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hammered it, and we read and we read and we read. We read
the whole book that weekend, and Sunday we sat down and did
the project, and she got that sucker done.
Q And what was happening to Laura during this
time?
A Laura had what they call a book float due they
next week, okay.
Q What is a book float?
A Where they read a short story and then they
create -- you take a shoe box, and you decorate it with a
scene from the story. She had a book float due, like, the
weekend after that Monday. And as I was on the sofa, you
know, buzzing through this book with Emma, Dave was on the
other sofa behind this computer working on his laptop, and
Laura was inspired.
I mean, this little kid, she wanted to do her
book report. She saw mommy with Emma, I was reading, she
was reading, and, you know, she wanted to be a part of that
and she couldn't be, and she had to figure out what she
wanted to do.
So she's running around the house pulling all
these materials together and, you know, I'm sitting back
thinking, I may need those materials next weekend, you know,
don't use them now, let's hold off, and I'm like, no, no,
no.
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I tried to get Dave to kick in and help with
that particular situation, and he's like, no, no, let her
go. He continued working on his laptop and his computers,
and she was around the house pulling everything together,
and she hammered it. She got it done.
And, you know, I looked at it and, you know,
realized that it wasn't anything like I had done the year
before with Emma, you know, because an adult, you know,
kicked in and --
Q But the bottom line is you asked for help a
the response was?
A I didn't get it, right.
Q How do the girls feel about going to Green
Ridge Elementary?
A Positive. They want to go to Green Ridge.
Q Is that the school you want them to continue
to attend?
A Yes, it is.
Q Can you tell me why?
A Because it's their home away from home. It's
their comfort zone. It's what they're used to, and it's a
great school. The teachers are fantastic. There's a lot of
love. There's a lot of caring. There's a lot of guidance.
It's strict. They have to follow the rules, but it's an
excellent school. There's no reason for them to change.
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Q And you, in fact, made arrangements --
A I did.
Q -- so that that could continue?
A I did.
Q Do you have -- and your baby-sitter is Sue
Knaub?
A Yes, she is.
Q And the school approves that, is that
correct?
A
Q
quit?
Yes, they have, in writing.
Do you have any information that she might
A None. In fact, I think she gave this very,
very serious thought and took a week and a half or two weeks
before she even got back to me with an answer. And when she
got back to me and said she would do it, she was very
serious, very committed, and I have no problems with it. If
I had a gut feeling, any type of negative gut feeling about
it, I wouldn't go for it. They wouldn't be there.
Q And one of Dave's concerns is what happens if
she quits, what happens if she gets sick, all of that. Do
you have a backup?
A Yes, I do. Another woman in the development
has offered to allow Emma and Laura to stop at her home. In
fact, that's where they get the bus or used to get the bus
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anyway, and they could get on the bus there. If it's an
afternoon thing, that was extended as well, that Emmy and
Laura could get off the bus and go into that woman's home as
well.
Q And you have the -- do you have ability to
there in the afternoon when her services are no longer
available?
A Yes, I do. I can leave work, yes.
Q Or if she's also sick on one day, how
flexible are you to be able to be there?
A I'm at home with the girls period.
Q Do you know what time or how long Sue's
willing to do this in the daytime, not a period of time, but
from when to when?
A From it's going to be -- each day or --
Q Each day.
A Each day I'm going to drop the kids off
probably between, like, 7:10, probably like 7:00 or 7:20,
something like that, so I'm on the road by 7:30. They get
the bus at 8:10. They'll be there, what, less than an hour
every morning, and then they'll be dropped off -- I think
the bus goes through there about 4:10, if I'm not mistaken.
Westbury has really grown, and they have two
buses for one elementary school. That's how large this
development is and all the kids that are in this area now.
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I know one is, like, 4:10. It will be between 4:00 and
4.10.
Q And what time would you pick them up?
A I get off work at 4:30.
Q So you could be there around?
A By 5:00 at the latest.
Q And if Dave would make it at 5:00 to pick up
the kids, he would get them at your house later?
A Yes, he could.
Q How long have you known Sue Knaub?
A She moved in six months after we moved into
that development. So she's been there as long as we have
almost.
Q Which is?
A We were there in '96. We moved in in '96.
Q And are the kids -- do they know her?
A Yes.
Q Do they know her children?
A They know the family, yes, and the children,
yes.
Q Have they expressed any desire not to go
there? Have they said, mommy, we don't want to go, anything
like that?
MR. HELVY: Your Honor, I understand we're
going to have the children here that will have the
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opportunity to speak with you.
THE COURT: I want to hear the answer to
this. Go ahead, you can answer.
THE WITNESS: You know, honestly, Emma, my
oldest one, is really into the latchkey program that she's
involved in right now at Green Ridge period. You know, her
friends Kayla and Amanda were there, and she has expressed
to me that she wants to stay in her latchkey program at
Green Ridge.
And then Monday Emmy and Laura had an
opportunity to be at Sue's all day, and Monday night when I
picked them up, apparently they have Gameboys and they have
some stuff that they can play with that interests Emma, and
she shifted gears. She said, you know, I'm okay with Sue,
MOM. So that's all I know.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q Have you seen any signs that it upsets your
girls to go back to the development, to be at Sue's house
when you dropped them off on Monday?
A No, I haven't, not directly related to that,
no.
Q When you decided to use Sue, did you discuss
it with Dave?
A Yes, I did.
Q And what happened?
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A He would not give me his consent.
Q What did he tell you?
A He would have to interview her.
Q Has he ever given you his consent to use her
other than for this week?
A No.
Q Now, one of the things Dave testified to
about wanting the kids to go over to Susquehanna is the
closeness to work and things like that. Do you think that
that's an important consideration as far as the girls, the
girls' best interest? Do you think closeness to his work or
to your work is an important consideration?
A At this point, no, I don't. When they were
smaller and infants and babies, I, in fact, chose Alphabet
Express, that day care center, because it was so close to
Dave. I could not find one that was close to me, and that's
why I consented. I went with that day care center so that
he could hang with them and be with them during the day and
whatever, fit it in his schedule.
Q Where do you think the focus should be now in
making that decision?
A Continuity. I think the girls have to focus
on -- we have to focus on what's going to help them through
this.
Q Is taking the kids in the morning to his
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house convenient for you?
A No.
Q How much extra time does it take you?
A A good 15, 20 minutes it would be
definitely.
Q And they would be on a highway too, is that
correct?
A Right.
Q Tell me about the day care arrangements that
were in existence prior to separation, how you handled them
in the morning getting them to school and things of that
nature.
A I would get up and get myself ready and
moving. Many, many days I would get them out of bed, get
them downstairs on the sofa, get their clothes out. And I
didn't make eggs on every single morning, you know. I
didn't cook that kind of thing every morning, but there were
many mornings I did.
In fact, my mother-in-law even bought me a
separate pan because I was complaining about not being able
to keep my pans clean, and she bought me this fry pan. But,
you know, pop tarts. You know, they're not real big cereal
eaters.
THE COURT: Wait, wait. The question isn't
what they were eating. The question is what was the routine
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in the morning.
THE WITNESS: Thank you. So then, you know,
the food issue would be addressed. Then I basically -- they
didn't have to get on the bus until 8:20, 8:25. I had to
leave by 7:20, 7:25, so they had an hour, okay. They can
put their clothes on. They can tie their shoes. They can
do their own thing. I left it up to them to get dressed,
you know.
I focused on, you know, homework, not every
day, you know. I don't want to misrepresent anything here,
but, you know, if something was lingering, you know, we
focused on it. If not, we just moved out through the day.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q So you leave for work?
A And I would leave for work, and then they
would be downstairs. They would be downstairs, and I would
hear the TV click on as I would be going out the door.
Q But Dave was still there?
A He was upstairs on every morning. He was not
down with me ever. He was upstairs in bed.
Q What was he to do?
A I would have liked him to have come
downstairs when I left, and I would have liked him to watch
them, to feed them, to make sure they had the appropriate
clothes on. You know, I can't tell Dave what to do, and I
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learned that a long time ago.
Q But he was supposed to get them dressed and
to the bus?
A Yes. He was responsible -- let me just put
it this way, he's an adult. He's the dad.
THE COURT: Wait. He got them to the bus an
got them off to school, right? Is that what happened?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: Next question.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q Did he walk them to the bus or did he just
watch them from the house?
A I don't think he walked them to the bus ever.
Be did watch them.
Q Afternoons?
A I picked them up period.
Q And what time would Dave normally come home?
A He would be home by 9:00, 9:15 on HACC
nights.
Q On the non HACC nights?
A Seven or eight. He never came home for
supper. Friday nights were nights where he would try to
come home at least by maybe 6:30, you know, 6:00, 6:30 to
some type of family thing and then --
Q What was the some kind of family thing?
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A It would be, like, a Japanese restaurant or
something where, you know, the kids wouldn't be into that
kind of food and Laura would end up having -- I don't want
to talk about food. It was inappropriate in my opinion.
Q So what would you do on the nights that you
were home with them?
A What would I do? Macaroni and cheese, green
beans.
Q I don't need to know precisely what they ate.
A I cooked. I dealt with food.
Q And homework?
A I dealt with homework.
Q Anything else?
A I dealt with baths.
Q Were they usually in bed or not in bed by the
time he came home?
A Yes, I usually had them in bed. If they had
an activity that would keep us out, you know, that would
extend their bedtime, you know, only because we didn't get
in until late from whatever we had to do. However, yeah,
the routine was that they needed to be in bed.
And there were many a time they were in bed,
and they would hear daddy pull in or come in the door. He
always made all this noise. It's like he didn't do it
quietly. He didn't work with me to help me get these kids
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down. He made all these noises, and then the kids would
hear him and, you know, boom, they would be up out of bed
wanting to see dad, you know.
There were times too, you know, you would go
through stages -- Dave and I were together for a very long
time, and we've had these kids in our lives for ten years,
so we're at different stages. There were times he would
call from HACC and would ask us if we wanted anything from
McDonald's or Wendy's or what have you. So, you know, that
was like the preschool years. That was not when they were
in first and second and third grade during the school year
when they had to be in bed.
Q What did you do on weekends, say Saturdays
when he taught?
A Yeah. Like I said, Friday nights would vary,
whether I would have enough energy and steam to clean, you
know, or whether, you know, I would just hang out with the
girls or whatever. Saturday morning I was up. I mean, I
ran and I was up by 6:00, 7:00, and I would get my run in
before everybody would get up. And then I would come back
home, and by that time the girls would be downstairs, and
then we would kick into breakfast.
Dave would get up eventually by, like, 10:00,
10:30. He had to -- he had his class at 11:00 or something,
and then he teaches class. He would come home. That was
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another big event, is going out to dinner on Saturday
afternoons where we would all go out to dinner somewhere.
And, you know, there were many a times I
wanted to stay home and get something done around the house
or do something, and it was imposed that this is a family
event, we're going to go out, it's going to be the four of
us. There were many a times when I didn't want to go, and
he decided not to go too and we would stay home.
Q Did you guys do things together with the
girls other than going out for this dinner on Saturday?
A We grocery shopped. We took them out to
dinner. We took them down to the aquarium. You know, we
did some usual things, yeah.
Q And were Sundays about the same as Saturdays
except that there was -- what about church? Were you ever
involved in church?
A Yeah. I have a foundation there, and I felt
very strongly about getting the kids in Sunday school. I
found it very difficult to keep that up. My life got really
busy when I started taking classes again at HACC, and then
going to church stopped. But I've always been one of these
people that have gone a period of time and then stopped,
have gone back, have stopped, you know.
Q Were you involved in their Sunday school?
A Yes, I taught their Sunday school for a
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period of time.
Q Did Dave go to church at all?
A No, he really did not accompany me to church,
and I wanted him to. That was a huge issue with us, huge.
He would not come. It was a huge fight.
Q On the evenings that Dave was at home and you
were doing your thing with the girls, would he take part in
that other than the Friday and Saturday night you've
described?
A Can you ask me that question again?
Q Would he take part in their activities or
doing things with them on the evenings that he was home and
not at HACC?
A Dave liked Stargate, and Emma has an interest
in sci-fi, you know, that kind of a TV show, and they would
watch Stargate on Friday nights at, like, 9:00.
Q Other than that, during the evenings was he
participating in what they did?
A I don't think so. You know, he read a book
on occasion, you know, yeah. He was very busy. He was out
I
of the house most of the time, you know, so he fit in what
he could fit in.
Q Would you describe yourself as being the
children's primary caretaker?
A Definitely.
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Q Can you tell me the things that you did with
them other than laying their clothes out, getting their
breakfast, things of that nature? What kind of activities
did you involve yourself in?
A It's endless. I was involved in their
brownies. I was their advisor with their cheerleading. I
was -- I've sat down behind the sewing machine with them.
I've sat down with needles with them and tried to teach them
how to do certain stitches. I've done many, many, many
crafts with them.
I've taught them how to play pinochle. I've
taken them bowling. I've taught them how to bowl. A big
thing in my family was bowling and pinochle, and that's
innate in me.
Q What about reading?
A Oh, yeah, big time, yeah.
Q What about special Christmas shows and things
like that?
A Oh, yeah. In church they had the children's
program, and there were two years I participated in a lot of
the crafty type stuff, you know, the production, the props
and that kind of stuff. I did all of it actually for those
two shows.
Q What about birthday parties?
MR. HELVY: Objection, Your Honor, to the
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what about.
THE COURT: Overruled. That is leading to
subject matter only. She is establishing she is the primary
caretaker.
MR. HELVY: I'm not suggesting it's not
relevant. It's leading in nature.
THE COURT: Go ahead. What about what?
MS. RADCLIFF: Birthday parties.
THE COURT: Go ahead. What about birthday
parties?
THE WITNESS: I would take them to and from
the birthday parties and there were times -- and many, many
times I stayed throughout whatever birthday party they were
invited to. I just hung with them.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q Was any of your children involved in any art
classes?
A Emma had an interest in art last summer or
the summer before, I forget which one it was, and I noticed
this and we talked about it. And I don't know, I guess I
was, like, on my way into the building at one point, and one
of the security guards was talking to someone about an older
child of his who was in college at this point who took these
private art classes with this lady out the Linglestown Road
area.
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And, you know, we kind of talked about, you
know, she's really good, why don't you get your daughter
involved in some classes to see where it goes. Emma did
that for a summer. That would have continued, but this lady
is so busy and so good she didn't have a place for Emma that
fall. So that's why that dropped off or that would have
continued.
Q So who signed her up?
A I did.
Q There was comments made about your exercise
routine. Do you ever involve your children in that routine?
A Yeah. There were many times Laura would hop
on a scooter and come with me or get on a bike. Emma
actually tried running a number of times with me on foot,
you know. That really didn't work out to be a workout for
me. It didn't last very long, but, yeah, they were with me.
It's nice outside. I want them with me. I don't want them
in front of the TV, you know.
Q Do you ever spend time at their schools?
A A lot. Yeah, I took time off work to spend
days with them in their classroom. I've gone there during
my lunch hour and have had lunch with them and have brought
them food from McDonald's and stuff like that instead of the
lunch cafeteria type stuff.
I've even snuck in there when Emma -- Emma
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particularly has talked about how she doesn't feel that she
has -- she doesn't have any friends, nobody plays with her
on the playground and that kind of thing. There have been
numerous times where I have snuck in her room and watched
her on the playground, and she's Miss Popularity, you know.
So, you know, I've tried to be involved there as much as I
can. It's very hard.
Q Can you tell me about the camping?
A Yeah. The camping is something I recognized
that we had never done, and I had an interest in it. I
bought a tent and pitched it on the front yard, and the
girls spent the weekend out there pretty much living.
I think Emma grabbed an electric cord and put
up a TV, took all their dolls out, their pillows, that kind
of thing, and they slept -- I think Sara even was sleeping
one night. One of the neighborhood girlfriends came over
one night and slept over.
That was up more than once, I think, now that
I'm thinking about it. Anyhow, and then I slept on the
porch on this chair, you know. I didn't sleep in with them,
but I was out with them.
Q Did you work with either one of them on the
piano?
A Yeah, Laura. Laura is showing some interest
in the piano, and I have taught her a few little things,
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nothing big, you know, just a few little tunes.
Q What have you done to teach your children
values?
A When they were little, I bought a book on
values. It was a really good book, and it talked about
stages that the children go through, age appropriate type
stuff, and it gave you examples on how to teach them about
honesty and responsibilities.
It had, like, six or seven main themes in it.
At the time when I bought the book, I thought I bought it
too early, and I have referred to that book many times now
that they're older and tried to get ideas.
Q Did you tie-in any of your studying at HACC
to them as well?
A I took a child development class at HACC to
satisfy one of the core elements there, and my final that I
was responsible to do was a paper that included all the
different behaviors that we learned of. I was able to
observe Emmy and Laura, and the paper that I wrote was just
awesome. I aced it.
Q About them?
A It was all about them, you know, just about
memory retention and stuff like that.
Q Did you also attend the seminar for
separating parents?
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A Yes, I did.
Q Did you attend that because of the e-mail
Dave sent?
A No.
Q How did you learn about it, and why did you
attend?
A You told me, Diane.
Q And was it something I said was optional or
mandatory?
A Very optional.
Q And what was your response?
A I wanted to go and try to get a better handle
on how to deal with this situation that we're in now.
Q And what did you learn from the seminar?
A It really focused on the children and the
rough road that they're moving through now. And it helped
me understand the importance of keeping all the fighting and
the tension away from them as much as possible and all the
major issues, you know, they just don't need to be privy to.
Q Can you describe to me your office as it
relates to the children?
A Okay. I have a cubicle that I work in, and I
have pictures of the girls everywhere. In fact, I have from
the time Laura was an infant sitting in a high chair to her
fourth grade -- or third grade picture, you know. I have
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all the progression of her growth and her pictures every
single year in line.
I do have that for Emma as well, but not back
to when she was a baby, just back to kindergarten. I have
other pictures of them too and artwork and stuff.
Q You have in front of you a document that I
have the original here, but it's marked as exhibit, I
believe, 3.
A Yeah.
Q Can you tell me what that is?
A Emma wrote this poem when we were down at the
shore one year, and I loved it. And I went and I had it
framed and I have that in my office -- or had that in my
office up until the time I gave it to you.
Q And why is this poem -- and I don't want you
to read the poem. But why is this poem special to you?
A I'm a water baby. I love the water. I love
the outdoors, and I'm seeing this in Emma, you know. She
likes the ocean and the water and the activities that all
that involves.
Q Have you collected other things about the
kids?
A Yeah. I had to buy, like, plastic filing
cabinet type things, and what I've done is I've organized
all of their kindergarten stuff and first grade, second
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grade, third grade for both of them. I have everything.
Q What do you mean by everything?
A Their homework, their tests. I have
everything they've done.
Q Why did you keep all that stuff?
A I couldn't throw it away.
Q Would you describe Dave as being an equally
primary caretaker as you? Do you think he was equally
involved with the children as you are?
A No, I don't. I'm not saying that he doesn't
love them. I'm just saying that I was hands-on. I was
there living day-to-day with them.
Q Were there times when he was around the
children that he would become involved, say, in his computer
or other activities?
A Yes, definitely. He would pull off and do
his own thing for hours, you know, with his guitars, yes.
Q Can you remember any particular times like at
parties or anything like that?
A Oh, my brother had hosted a party for his son
at Chuck E Cheese, and the four of us went there, and Dave
took his laptop there. While I was running around the place
with the girls at Chuck E Cheese, Dave sat behind his laptop
and didn't do a thing with the girls.
Q Did he bring his laptop to any other recitals
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or party?
A Yeah. My friend and coworker that I've known
for many, many years, her daughter's a dancer, and we were
invited to her recital and we went to this --
MR. HELVY: I'm going to object to the
relevance of the laptop at a friend's recital.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q Were the girls there?
A The girls were there, and Dave pulled out his
handheld at that point and did all his -- I don't know what
he was doing, actually. He never permitted me to look over
his shoulder, you know. He was very annoyed when I would
try to get involved with whatever he was doing on the
computer, but he was on the computer during this recital.
Q When your family would come over to visit
with you and the girls, what was Dave's common reaction?
A He was not involved with my family at all an
didn't really talk to them much. You know, he would go off
and do his own thing.
Q Such as?
A Computer and guitar. My grandfather actually
even before he died --
Q I don't want to hear what your grandfather
said because I know what you're about to say.
A All right.
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Q Were there times when you were able to see
how he would treat your grandfather? If you didn't see it,
that's fine.
A Yes, yeah. He was very standoffish. He did
not communicate wit h my grandparents at all.
Q How about his family, were you close to his
family?
A I felt that I was close with their family,
yes, indeed.
Q Before the two of you separated, how often
would you see his family?
A It was holidays. It was holidays or, you
know, when I would try to get in contact with them for one
reason or another and drop something off, whatever. You
know, I would stop by and they would be able to see the
children. His mom called me all the time at work. I mean,
all the time at work I was on the phone with her.
Q Do you have a dog?
A Yes.
Q What's her name?
A We have a basset hound, and her name is
Molly.
Q And how long have you had Molly?
A We bought Molly when she was a pup in '99.
Q Were there incidents involving Molly in front
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of the children that caused you concern?
A Yes. In I think the thought of training the
animals, Dave would become very abusive sometimes with the
animals, Molly and Mocha, both of them.
Q And Mocha was?
A Mocha was a chocolate lab that we got, like,
a year later. I would remove the kids from the room. You
know, it got to the point where I -- it was too much for me.
I couldn't take it. It was just physical and yelling and
being loud and clapping your hands trying to get them --
Q What physical?
A Trying to flip the dog over and getting
the dog by the throat so that the dog would know who was
boss.
Q Any problems with walls or anything like
that?
A Yep, yep. I didn't see this happen, but I
saw the result.
Q If you didn't see it -- tell me what the
result was that you saw.
A I saw the result. There was an indentation
in the wall and Dave had just --
Q Did he tell you what he had done?
A Yeah. It was my -- yes.
Q What did he tell you he had done?
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A That he just pushed Molly's head into the
wall, into the drywall. I forget exactly what that was
about, but that definitely happened.
Q And was there a time when Molly's leg had
become broken?
A Yeah. Again, it was over an issue where --
Molly's a basset hound, and they're temperamental. It was
hard to get her to listen. And I think because she wouldn't
stay at one point or another, I think he became abusive, and
in somehow trying to flip her over or trying to do
something, her leg was broken.
Q Did this kind of behavior upset your girls?
A I think it did if I would let them around,
you know. I recognized that -- I was clearly, like, you
know, shaken.
Q Let's talk about your existing home. Can y
describe it to me?
THE COURT: This is a good point to take a
break. You may step down. We will break for lunch.
Reconvene at 1:30.
(Whereupon, a lunch recess was taken from
12:35 p.m. until 1:30 p.m.)
THE COURT: You may continue. I have until
3:00 today. If you do not get done, we will come back
tomorrow morning at 9:30.
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BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q Vicki, we were in the process where I was
asking you to describe your home for me.
A Okay. I live in a townhome. It's a three
bedroom townhome. I have a bedroom for each one of my
girls, a dining room, kitchen, living room, basement, full
basement, two baths. It's a nice place.
Q Suburban or rural?
A Suburban.
Q How close is it to school?
A It's about ten minutes away from Green Ridge
Elementary School.
Q And to your proposed baby-sitter?
A Depending on which way you go, I can be there
within ten minutes too.
Q You have in front of you a document marked
Defendant's Exhibit No. 4.
A Yes, I do.
Q Can you describe that?
A Yes. One is the front of the townhouse.
Q Is that the one that says 1112 Cross Creek
Drive?
A That's correct. And number two is actually
shot of Laura's desk. I couldn't take a picture of the
whole room from the doorway so I had to break it up. And,
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obviously, three and four, you know, are pretty much what it
is, her bed and her dresser.
Q In Laura's bedroom?
A In Laura's bedroom, that's correct. And
Emma's bedroom is a little bit bigger than Laura's, but she
has her own space, and at this point I really think she
needs it. I don't really think so much that Laura needs it
right now, but I really do think that Emma does. But Emmy
has her own bed and dresser and desk to work at.
Q Aside from the three bedrooms, what else does
your house contain?
A What else does it contain?
THE COURT: Let me ask it this way. Is there
anything you need that you don't have there as far as a
house goes?
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: That is good enough. These
people live in fine places.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q How far are you away from Dave's house
driving wise?
A Depending on traffic again and the time of
day, it's going to be a good 20 minutes, 25 minutes.
Q And do you anticipate that you might change
your home at anytime in the future?
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A I would like to purchase a home. I would
like not to have to rent. I don't know when that's going to
happen for me.
Q If you purchase one, where would you purchase
it?
A In the CV School District period.
Q There was some discussion by Dave of
potential plans for you to move to Perry County or get a job
transfer. Can you tell me about those discussions?
A I'm from Perry County. It's beautiful, and
you know, that's probably where that's coming from.
Q Did you tell him you wanted to move there?
A Did I tell him I wanted to move there, to
move back home? I wouldn't mind moving back home, but I
don't see it in the future.
Q Why not?
A Based on what's going on in our lives right
now, to be honest. That's all I can say.
Q Describe for me your children's relationship
with your extended family members.
A My kids know my brother. They know my
sister, both sisters, in fact. They're involved with their
children. We hang out. We do things together. We do
holidays.
Q Do you see them other than holidays?
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A Do I see my mom?
Q Your family members.
A Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Q And prior to the separation, did you see your
other family members other than holidays?
A Yeah, yes.
Q What kinds of things would you do with them?
A I did Thanksgiving, and I did the turkey, an
I would do Christmas and that kind of thing. They would
come over and hang with us and just, you know, hang.
Q And are the children close or not close to
them, to your family members?
A I want them to be close to our extended
family. I think it's very important for them to have a
relationship with not only my side but Dave's side. I want
that. And I have gone to great measures, you know, so that
that happens even with my situation with my mother, you
know, being raised by grandparents. I want them to have
that extended family life and that sense of who they are.
Q How would you describe your approach to
chores and responsibilities that these children should
assume?
A They're responsible for -- Emma, you know, is
pretty good at making her bed and cleaning up her room right
now. Laura's still not there as much as Emmy is. I have
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asked them to make their beds. I ask them to clean up after
themselves after they eat, okay, and that's about it.
Q What about household chores?
A I do the chores, and I ask them to hang with
me. If they want to help me, I ask them for help.
Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't. But I don't
expect that of them, you know. They need to take care of
themselves right now.
Q What do you do if you tell your child to do
something and she doesn't behave?
A Okay. I have been big on sending the kids to
their rooms, you know, they need a time-out.
Q Is your discipline method any different than
Dave's?
A I don't know Dave's discipline method. I
don't know if he's ever had any. Yeah, I know years and
years ago when they were small we did counting backwards. I
think I did one, two, threes, and I think he did ten, nine,
eight, seven, six, you know, he gave them, but that was when
they were very small. That's not recent stuff.
Q What about flexibility? How are you with
regard to being able to change the schedule that's set forth
in the order?
A I'm very flexible.
Q Can you give me any examples of what you've
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done? Do you recall anything regarding a field trip?
A Well, if something -- I'm just trying to
think of a situation. It would have to be, like, an
emergency type thing, you know, if they're sick or
something. Things are pretty well planned.
As far as planning evenings or whatever, you
know, we kind of go with the flow. If we're invited
somewhere, we go. If we don't happen to go there for one
reason or another, we don't.
Q What I'm talking about is flexibility between
you and Dave.
A Oh, excuse me.
Q So if you need to change the schedule that's
in the order.
A I don't know. I see myself being a little
more flexible than Dave. Sincerely, he has to have
everything in black and white, and he on numerous occasions
during this interim has referred back to this court order or
that piece of paper, and, you know, he couldn't do whatever
because I have to go check this paper out and see what it
says. So I think I'm flexible.
What did I do? He wanted to go on that fief
trip the day that I was supposed to have a meeting with
Domestic Relations, a very important meeting, and we
cancelled that meeting, and he went ahead and went on the
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field trip with Emma.
Q And you would like to remain that way?
A Yeah. I want it to be comfortable. We're in
a period of our lives right now where we're going to have to
put the kids first, and, you know, if he wants to do
something with the kids on a night when they're with me,
alas he has to do is pick up that phone and let me know, and
he doesn't believe that.
I've always put these kids before myself, you
know. I would not try to keep them from him unless they had
their own activity happening and something else was going
on. You know, if he wants to see them, ails he has to do is
pick up the phone.
Q Why don't you describe for me your
relationship or how you view your relationship with these
girls.
A I'm very bonded with them. We're very close.
I feel that line of communication between us is open, good,
bad, indifferent, and they have been really honest with me
about things.
Q What about affection?
A Very loving, very caring, lots of hugs and
kisses.
Q How do you see the relationship of the girls
with their dad now? Not necessarily back --
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A Well, like I said before, I know Dave loves
them. I know Emmy and Laura love him very much. I think
they're in a period right now where they want to please him,
and I think they're really enjoying the attention he's
giving them right now. They're sucking it up. And you
know, too bad it wasn't happening like that before, you
know.
Q What do you do to encourage the relationship
between dad and these girls?
A I don't talk negatively about Dave to the
children. As a matter of fact, we have our own lives going
on right now. We have a lot going on. It's filled. Our
days are filled. I don't need to focus on who he is, what
he is, what he's doing anymore.
Q There was an exhibit that was submitted, I
believe it was six, by the plaintiff which was a series of
cards and things like that that he was showing.
A What was it?
Q His Exhibit 6.
A Oh, interesting, yeah.
Q Do you want to take a look at that and tell
me if you were involved in any of those?
A Yeah. The second one, we actually helped
Laura write and send, and we addressed the envelope and put
a stamp on it to facilitate this card.
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Q Do you know when that was?
A That was when we were in Cape May.
Q This summer?
A This summer, yeah.
Q And any others in that packet that you were
instrumental in?
A No. Well, yeah. I'm going to have to say
no, no. I'm seeing now what this is, okay, no.
Q The heart shaped ones you weren't involved in
at all?
A Actually, that was their brownies. They
didn't make that with me, no. I'm sorry.
Q What about special days like birthdays and
Father's Day and anything like that, do you assist them at
all with regard to those events?
A Yeah, I feel that I do. I feel that I have
made Father's Day a special day for Dave. I've tried to
single that out for him. I've never been one to spend a lot
of money, you know, but going out, you know -- our way of
celebrating is going out to eat. That was a big family
thing for us.
I know that for the first two, three years or
so Mother's Day would roll around, you know, and I would try
to get Dave to celebrate Mother's Day, and I would get a
response like, well, you're not my mother. It took me
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awhile, you know, until they were a little older, you know,
for him to get in the groove to help celebrate Mother's Day.
You know, that hurt me that that wasn't a more natural thing
for him.
Q I believe you said you didn't talk negatively)
about him.
A No, I don't.
Q Do you think he does the same thing for you?
A I know he does, yeah.
Q That he doesn't talk negatively or he does?
A He does. He does.
Q Can you give me an example?
A I think Laura at one point asked him what he
would do if I would die, and he said that he would dance on
my grave.
Q What about -- to your knowledge, have there
been any discussions of these custody proceedings?
A I think there's been some, yeah. Sunday
night -- or, excuse me, Monday night when I picked the girls
up at Sue's house, Sue pulled me aside and said Dave was
here this afternoon.
Q Rather than say what -- well, go ahead.
A Anyhow --
THE COURT: Next question.
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BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q Was there anything said to the girls, to your
knowledge, about what school they would attend?
A Yeah. They were very, very familiar with the
fact that Dave was considering a different school district
and a different school, and that was not from me.
Q Have you talked to the girls at all
pertaining to these custody proceedings?
A After I attended that seminar, some of the
information I gathered and some of the guidance that was
given to parents involved in this situation is that it was
okay to explain yourself. After that seminar, I have to
admit I gave myself permission to open up a little bit, to
give little reasons why I did this or why I did that, yeah.
Q How would you describe the communication or
ability to communicate between you and Dave about the
children?
A At this point it's very difficult.
Q Why do you think that is?
A Our relationship though has never been one of
a negotiating type relationship where options were thrown
out and then you had a balance of the outcome, you know. I
really feel that, you know, pretty much what Dave wanted or
the way he wanted to go was how it went despite my feelings,
my wishes, my wants, even though I would express them. You
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get to a point where you stop. You get to a point where you
don't even try anymore, you just let go of it.
Q There was testimony pertaining to cellphones
for the kids and not having information provided about a
trip. Did you get cellphones for the kids?
A I purchased cellphones for the children
because I wanted to prove to Dave early on that I wanted to
keep communication open. He did e-mail me regarding the
whereabouts of my trip, and at that point in time I was
unsure. I didn't have the details at that point.
I'm learning through this that, you know, the
children are smart. I have very --
THE COURT: Hold on. You are way off the
scope of the question. You got them cellphones. Next
question.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q And you said that he e-mailed you about where
you were going on this trip. This was the one to Cape May,
is that correct?
A Correct.
Q And you didn't know exactly where you were
going. Were you going camping, is that it?
A Yeah. I didn't have the campground, the
name. In fact, we stayed at two different ones. We had to
pack up at one point and move to another because we couldn't
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have it for the duration of the time.
Q And did you have your cellphone with you?
A Always, yeah.
Q And did he make any attempts to call you on
your cellphone?
A No, he did not call me.
Q What happened to the girls' cellphones?
A I have them.
Q Did you have them on the trip?
A I did not take them.
Q Why not?
A And they haven't had their cellphones for
quite awhile. I have pulled the cellphones at this point.
They can use my phone whenever they want to. Laura, in
fact, is too young. She doesn't even know how to really
manipulate it. You know, I've recognized in her that I made
a very bad decision in purchasing that because it's not
working out for her.
Emma, on the other hand, is very good at
technical stuff. So, you know, there is a possibility that,
you know, with rules and in learning what those rules are
that she will get that back, and Laura too for that matter,
but things are just really --
Q Were they over using them? Was that the
problem?
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A Well, Emmy was pulling down a lot of
downloads, that kind of thing, and playing games, which is
fine to a certain extent. But, you know, I don't want them
going to school with them, you know. I was having trouble
because --
Q But with regard to this particular weekend,
you would have already pulled the phones from them?
A Like a month prior to that, yes. This was
not just because of that.
Q I want you to describe yourself as a parent.
Tell me what your strong points are.
A I'm very affectionate. I'm empathetic. I
put my children before myself. I guide them in making
decisions and helping them learn how to live when situations
come up. I try to identify what they should do, what they
shouldn't do, and help them make good decisions and yet let
them think that they made them, you know.
Q What are your weaknesses?
A I give into their wants sometimes more than I
should.
Q What about Dave, describe him, strong points
and weak points.
A Dave's very intelligent. He knows what he
wants. You live his life or you don't live any life.
That's a negative. I see him having trouble moving into
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their world. I see him living his life with them in his
world. A good point, what did I say?
Q You said he was intelligent.
A Yeah. I think he's loving. Like I said
before, he loves his kiddos.
Q Now, you've opposed a joint custody order.
A Um-hum.
Q Can you tell me why you think joint custody
won't work?
A Because we can't negotiate. You know, I
don't see Dave looking at me and saying, oh, you know, this
idea that Vicki just came up with isn't really what I would
do or something that I would go for but, you know, this is
what Vicki wants, this is what Vicki likes, so we'll work on
that, and we'll give that to her. Negotiating isn't there
for us. I really feel it's either his way or no way.
Q What about schoolwork, how do you think joint
custody would work?
A I think it's going to be very difficult to
follow, extremely difficult to follow the kids' schedule.
Q In what way?
A Just to keep track of it, to make sure it's
done, especially when things come home, you know, because
they're bringing stuff home every night. And, you know, if
one parent has the kid when they're bringing something home
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and it's due three weeks down the road or something and
that's not brought home, I see real problems with that.
Q Do you have the same kind of approach to
schoolwork?
A As Dave does? Yeah, it has to be done. It
should be a priority.
Q But do you approach it the same way? In the
past, have you approached schoolwork the same way on how it
gets done and who does it and that kind of stuff?
A He thinks differently than I do. So I would
have to say no, but I'm not saying that it's wrong.
Q What about the effect on them? Do you think
it would be good for them to spend an equal amount of time
with dad on his proposed schedule, two days with you, two
days with him and then the alternating weekends to change?
A I think the flip flop in their schedule like
that is extremely harmful. I don't think that would be good
for the children on a routine on a weekly type of basis. I
think they need a home base where they know where they're
going, they have stability. I do not think the flip flop
would work or would be good for them, I do not. In my heart
of hearts, I don't.
And like I said, anytime Dave would want to
see them or if they would want to see him, alls they would
have to do is pick up that phone, and I mean that, you know.
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I am very flexible and I have a history -- a 20 year history
with putting him before myself and putting these kids before
myself. I can't see myself being vindictive and not
allowing him to have them when he wants them. I don't see
it happening.
Q Now, one of the things -- you have in front
of you a document that's been marked as Defendant's Exhibit
No. 6. Do you see that in front of you?
A Yes, I do.
Q That's your proposed order that's attached to
your pretrial, is that correct?
A Yes, it is.
Q One of the terms you had suggested for the
mid weeks was that it only be one evening and it only be
during the evening. Can you tell me why you're proposing
that as opposed to the two evenings and then the overnight?
A Well, because it's too much flip flopping
around for them, I believe it is. It's not going to be good
for the kids to be pushed around like that. They're not
going to know if they're coming or going.
Q Is it something that you think could work,
say, during the summer versus the school year?
A On a weekly basis, yes, you know, where
they're there for a period of time, but not at my place one
night, his place another night, my place another night, no,
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not like that, but during the summer if it's a chunk, yeah.
Q And your weekends you propose they would end
on Sunday night instead of Monday morning. Why did you
propose that?
A I wanted to get them ready for school. I
wanted to make sure everything was in line, that's why.
Q With regard to his schedule, aside from the
things that you have enunciated here, did you have any
objections to it, such as the length of time that you would
see them or anything of that nature?
THE COURT: I'm not sure I understand the
question. She is opposed to his schedule.
MS. RADCLIFF: Correct. I'll go on.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q Now, the summers. This summer each party was
entitled to two weeks, correct?
A Correct.
Q Did either one of you exercise two weeks of
vacation?
A I did.
Q What about Dave?
A He did not.
Q You nonetheless put in your schedule changing
that two weeks to four. Can you tell me why you did that?
A To accommodate Dave so that he could see the
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kids for a longer period of time during the summer months so
that we could have more of a stable home base during the
school year.
Q Now, in addition to the regular alternating
weekends and major holidays, these kids also have other time
off from school, like Monday holidays and Christmas break
and spring break. How would you propose handling those
times?
A Basically, if Dave has the children for the
weekend, he might as well just enjoy them Sunday night and
throughout Monday if we have a Monday holiday and then
return them on Monday night, or even better yet maybe he
could even take them to school the next day on Tuesday
morning and give himself more time.
Q And the extended holidays, like Christmas
holiday or the Easter break holiday?
A I think the way it's written right now is
that we're going to split those days during the weeks they
have off. I have this week for the first time in years for
Christmas.
Q So if you have the ability to take off work,
you would like to have them, if he has the ability to take
off work, he can have them?
A Yeah, pretty much. What I was thinking of
here is that, you know, even if I have them, you know, for
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that week before Christmas, he's going to need Christmas
shopping, and I'm sure he's going to want to take them
Christmas shopping so they can buy gifts for people. Alls
he has to do is call me. I keep saying that. He can take
them for the afternoon.
MS. RADCLIFF: That's all.
THE COURT: Cross-examine.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. HELVY:
Q Your proposed order does not give Dave or the
children any additional time with their dad in the summer,
correct?
A Incorrect.
Q Then I may have misread your order. It
seemed to me that the schedule that you were proposing with
dad just having every other weekend continued through the
summer.
A Incorrect.
Q So help me out here. What am I missing with
your order that gives dad additional time with the kids?
THE COURT: Four uninterrupted weeks. You
mean, in addition to those four for her and four for him?
MR. HELVY: Right.
BY MR. HELVY:
Q Because you're taking four weeks away from
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him because you gave yourself four uninterrupted weeks as
well, correct?
A Yes.
Q So, I mean, it's not like you just gave him
four and didn't give yourself four, correct? I mean, other
than that, is there any additional time for dad in the
summer? You're giving him the same four weeks that you gav
yourself.
A If there's something that comes up, a ball
game or something, anything.
Q But that's not in the order?
A That's correct. It doesn't have to be in the
order.
Q With regard to these cellphones, isn't it
true that after giving the cellphones to the children you
decided that was probably not the best idea, right?
A You know, there were a number of reasons why
I took those phones away.
Q I thought your testimony was that you
realized that it was a mistake to give the children the
cellphones.
A I do believe they're too young.
Q But isn't it true that you told the kids that
the cellphones were lost, you didn't explain it to them?
A I did not. I never told them they were lost.
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Q What did you tell the kids about them?
A They couldn't have them. They asked me for
them. I said no.
Q Before making the decision to either give the
children the cellphones or take the cellphones away from the
children, before making that decision, did you discuss it
with Mr. Shatto?
A I purchased those cellphones. I'm paying for
them.
THE COURT: Wait a minute. The question was,
did you discuss it with him?
THE WITNESS: I did not.
THE COURT: Next question.
BY MR. HELVY:
Q And on the Cape May trip, I think you had
indicated that even after -- you had not given the location
of where you were going to be on your vacation to Mr. Shatto
because at first you didn't know where you were going to be,
right?
A I wasn't quite sure where.
Q After you found out where you were going to
be, you didn't call Mr. Shatto up and tell him where you
were going to be in spite of the fact that he had requested
that on numerous occasions, correct?
A No. He requested it once, sir. I did not
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tell him, no. I did not call him, you know, two or three
weeks later with the information.
Q In fact, you never told him where you were
staying?
A That's correct.
Q You had mentioned a shopping spree that Mr.
Shatto took with his father and the girls. That was to buy
clothes, correct?
A I believe so.
Q In fact, you've pretty much kept all the
girls' clothes so he really didn't have much clothes for the
children, correct?
A That is not correct. That is so untrue. In
fact, he has most of them.
Q Now, Dave had asked to be involved in the
selection process for the summer day care, correct, for the
children?
A No, I don't think he ever came to me and
asked me.
Q You don't recall getting an e-mail from Mr.
Shatto saying, hey, I would like to be involved in the
selection process for the summer day care?
A He may have generated that, but it was after
I made the decision.
Q So you made the decision for summer day care
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without involving Mr. Shatto, didn't you?
A I've always done that.
Q And you made the decision for who was going
to help out with the kids if they were able to go to Green
Ridge without involving Mr. Shatto. Isn't that true?
A I made the decision, yes.
Q And, in fact, today's the first time you ever
even mentioned to Mr. Shatto that you had an alternate plan
in the event that Susan Knaub was not available. Isn't that
true?
A Excuse me, I need to go back to the other
question.
Q Your attorney can do that with you.
A I need to make a correction.
THE COURT: Hold on. Get this answer down
before we get back to the old one.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
THE COURT: Did you tell him about your
alternate day care provider in case your current one can't
do it if they go to Green Ridge? That was the question.
THE WITNESS: I have not yet. That's only
because it just happened today.
THE COURT: Now, you can clarify your answer
to the other question.
THE WITNESS: Okay. Yeah, I did talk to Sue
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Knaub about the children being watched by them before and
after school, and I made a grave mistake there the way I
answered that question. He did know. I tried to discuss
that with him, and he would not acknowledge it or give me
the go ahead without interviewing her.
BY MR. HELVY:
Q But did you have an objection to the fact
that the father of the children would like to at least talk
to the person that's going to be watching them every day
before and after school? Did that disturb you?
A That's not part of our relationship. I
understand that there are father's that do that.
Q And it's your belief that this father
shouldn't. Is that your testimony?
A I've always done this, Attorney Helvy. I've
always taken care of this arena.
Q You testified that when the day care called
father about the pink eye problem, I think your testimony
was that you were livid that they had called the father.
A Very upset.
Q And as I understood your testimony, what you
were livid about was the fact that they hadn't called you
first?
A That's correct.
Q So it's your belief that you should always be
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the one who gets the phone calls as opposed to father, is
that correct?
A I do.
Q Even though that happened to be the evening
that the children were going to be with their father, you
still think that you're the one that should have got the
call?
A Only because of the history. We're in a
different arena here. We're in a different period in our
lives. We're all going through a major adjustment, and
we're all going to have to bend a little bit. So I can only
give you my initial feelings on these things because I've
always been the one they have called. This is the first
time that had ever happened and, you know, I --
Q So you were upset?
A I wanted it.
Q And you had a real problem with Mr. Shatto
scheduling a doctor's appointment for one of your daughters,
correct? I mean, in fact, you cancelled the appointment
twice.
A A real problem? I didn't understand the
necessity. I wouldn't call it a real problem. I would call
it --
But you did cancel the appointment twice,
right?
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A Only because I got the clearance --
Q Maybe yes or no.
THE COURT: I already know the answer. She
did.
BY MR. HELVY:
Q With regard to who was staying in the marital
residence around the time of separation and who wasn't,
would you agree with me that simply wasn't economically
feasible for either of you to stay in that house for the
long run?
A I disagree with that. I think one of us
should be there right now.
Q You think that --
A We should be trying to sell the home and then
moving out after it's sold.
Q I mean in the long run.
THE COURT: By answering that, she answered
your question. The home should be sold.
MR. HELVY: I have no further questions, Your
Honor.
THE COURT: Any further redirect?
MS. RADCLIFF: Just a few, Your Honor.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q Did Dave seek out or make any attempt to fi
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an alternate sitter so that the kids could go to Green Ridge
Elementary?
A No.
Q And with regard to interviewing Sue Knaub,
how long had he known her?
A As long as I have.
Q So seven, eight years?
A Correct.
Q With regard to making the decision on the Y
program, were you forced into having to make a decision in
order to reserve the spot for the summer?
A Yes. I was at a point where a decision had
to be made period.
Q And prior to your making that decision, did
Dave suggest anybody to you for use of a baby-sitter at that
time?
A No, he did not. You have to remember too a
lot of these things are done months ahead of time, you know,
when you have child care issues like this. I mean, you know
where your kids are going months ahead of time. And based
on the interim that we were moving through, you know, that
was set up at the very last minute in my opinion and based
on my history of dealing with this stuff. You know, I
usually know months ahead of time what's happening.
Q And these were kind of decisions that you ha
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always made in the past. Is that the idea?
A Yes, indeed.
Q And that's one of the difficulties that
you've been having with --
MR. HELVY: Objection, leading.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q Have you been having any difficulties with
regard to that?
A Well, he's not agreeing with me. He's not
following my lead on some of this stuff. It's a give and
take. It's not just all of my way, and it's not going to be
all his way. It's going to be very difficult.
MS. RADCLIFF: That's all.
THE COURT: Anything else?
MR. HELVY: No follow-up.
THE COURT: You may step down. Anything
further?
MS. RADCLIFF: I did not submit Exhibit No.
5, but I move for admission of 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6.
THE COURT: They are admitted. Is five in
this packet here?
MS. RADCLIFF: Yes. We will have to take out
five.
THE COURT: Next witness, father.
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MR. HELVY: Your Honor, just on the rebuttal
for Mr. Shatto, I seek direction only.
THE COURT: I will let you put him on for
rebuttal.
MR. HELVY: May I make an inquiry, Your
Honor. It would only be on the dog issue. I don't know if
that has any relevance.
THE COURT: The dog issue?
MR. HELVY: Yes.
THE COURT: The dog issue will have
absolutely less than zero effect on my dealing with the
children issue.
MR. HELVY:
THE COURT:
banging them up against t
will not have any effect.
MR. HELVY:
THE COURT:
Some Judges are dog lovers.
I am not, although I am not for
he wall either, but the dog issue
I would like to call Mr. Evans.
When does Green Ridge start,
ma'am?
MS. SHATTO: The 31st, Wednesday.
THE COURT: And your school starts Monday?
MR. SHATTO: Monday.
THE COURT: I have got to make a decision.
MR. HELVY: Your Honor, opposing counsel and
I had discussed the possibility of making offers of proof
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with regard to some of these witnesses to en sure that we
could get this in.
THE COURT: I will accept offers of proof if
you would like to do it that way. That is often a very
effective way of doing the supportive witnesses, family
members and bosses, whoever we have got here. I will let
you do it however you wish.
MR. HELVY: Mr. Evans I think --
THE COURT: We are going to do you on what we
call an offer, sir.
MR. HELVY: Mr. Evans is Mr. Shatto's
employer. He has known Mr. Shatto since 1984. He's married
and has two grown children, and Dave came to work for him in
1998. He would say that Dave is a very good employee, that
he has a flexible work schedule. I mean, at times there are
demands, that there's things that he has to be there for,
but his flexible is schedule. There's no specific time he
has to come in, no specific time he has to leave.
He would confirm Mr. Shatto's testimony that
he typically did come in later in the morning when he would
take care of the kids and see them off to school, and that
it was not uncommon for Mr. Shatto to take off if one of the
girls was sick or if, for example, the kids had off school
and Vicki couldn't get off work Dave would take off work and
spend the day with the children.
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He would testify about the fact that Dave
brought the kids into the office space on bring a child to
work day, that he has seen Dave interact with the kids on
that occasion and numerous other social functions and that
Dave, you know, is a competent parent, that he doesn't see
any problem with Dave and his parenting skills and his
ability to be substantially involved with the children.
Finally, that it was his sense that during
the week Dave was providing more of the parental time when
illnesses came up or there was, you know, just something
that came up that would have required one of them to stay
home from work or leave to take care of the kids.
MS. RADCLIFF: I can't accept that testimony.
MR. HELVY: He's right here. Is it the last
part or the whole thing?
MS. RADCLIFF: Well, the flexibility. Dave
himself said he still had to put 40 hours in. I agree that
his schedule is flexible as long as he does the 40 hours.
But more importantly his perception of what somebody was or
wasn't. If he doesn't have any personal knowledge, he can't
testify to it.
THE COURT: It is an offer. I will accept iti
for what it is worth.
MS. RADCLIFF: You'll accept what?
THE COURT: I will accept the offer for what
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it is worth. We are doing this on an offer. It doesn't
mean that she agrees to the testimony.
MS. RADCLIFF: Also, I'm not sure how often
he actually saw Dave and the girls together.
THE COURT: Do you want him to testify?
MS. RADCLIFF: I would like to get that on
the record.
THE COURT: I am going to let him testify in
his entirety because I don't think we should just botch it
up. Go ahead. Come on back up, sir.
Whereupon,
DONALD H. EVANS, JR.,
having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. HELVY:
Q Could you please state your full name for thel
record.
A My name is Donald H. Evans, Jr.
Q And where are you employed?
A I'm CEO of D.H. Evans Associates.
Q And are you Mr. Shatto's employer?
A Yes.
Q How long have you known Mr. Shatto?
A Since the mid 80's. Approximately 20 years
or so.
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Q And Mr. Shatto's been your employee for how
long?
A Since April of 1998 at D.H. Evans. He also
worked with me, in a sense for me, in a prior organization
back in the mid 80's.
Q His current work schedule, how would you --
does he have flexibility in his current work schedule?
A Yes. All of our salaried employees do.
Q Is it necessary for him to show up at a
specific time or leave at a certain time?
A Not normally. There could be unique
situations where a meeting -- his presence is required at a
meeting or something, but on the normal daily course of
events, it's not necessary that he be there at a specific
time.
Q Do you have personal knowledge of whether
Dave had used this flexibility, for example, in the morning?
Would he show up at the same time as the other employees in
the morning?
A No. We were aware that Dave did arrive later
in the mornings, usually, you know, ten of 9:00 to ten after
9:00, or whatever, in that time frame because he was making
sure that his children, you know, had gotten their
transportation to school.
Q Are you aware of any situations when Dave
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would have taken off work to be with his children?
A I know that particularly over the Christmas
holiday season the children were home on vacation. It was
very common that Dave would, you know, arrange his vacation,
you know, during those times, you know.
There were times when, you know, things were
going on that still required his involvement but that he was
able to communicate with the office or work from home on
some of those aspects. I know of winter snow days when
there was no school that Dave frequently was home with the
children.
Q How about any personal knowledge of instances
where the kids were home sick that Dave would have stayed
home?
A Yes. I know -- I can't point to any one
specific date, but I know that there were such occasions.
Q Was there any occasion where Dave brought the
children to the office?
A The children were in the office earlier this
year on a, you know, take your children to work day type
event. I know that the children were also at the office
from time to time when we would have Christmas luncheons
and, you know, things of that sort. I believe Vicki was
present for some of those as well.
Q And were there other social functions where
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you had the opportunity to watch Mr. Shatto interact with
his children?
A Yes. Not a large number, but from time to
time there would be a party or some such function that
involved mutual acquaintances where Dave and/or Vicki or the
children would be there.
Q Based upon your observations of Mr. Shatto
and the children, how would you describe Mr. Shatto as a
father?
A I have seen nothing to indicate that he
is anything other than a responsible, loving, caring
parent.
Q Based upon your observations, do you have
any reason to believe that he would be incapable of caring
for them even on a 50/50 basis?
MS. RADCLIFF: I'm going to object.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. HELVY:
Q During the week, did you have a sense as to
who was primarily -- as between Dave and Vicki, did you have
a sense of who would be the one that would stay home with
them if there was a problem?
MS. RADCLIFF: I'm going to object.
THE COURT: Sustained. They both told me
exactly what the situation has been.
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MR. HELVY: Okay. No further questions of
this witness.
THE COURT: Cross-examine.
MS. RADCLIFF: None.
THE COURT: You may step down, sir. Next.
MR. HELVY: Based on that issue, should we
just call the witnesses?
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. HELVY: Peggy Shatto.
Whereupon,
MARGARET ANN SHATTO,
having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. HELVY:
Q Please state your full name for the record.
A Margaret Ann Shatto.
Q And what is your relationship to Dave Shatto?
A Sister-in-la w.
Q Are you marr ied to his brother?
A Yes.
Q And where do you live?
A 411 and 409 Fairview Avenue, West Fairview.
Q Do you have any children?
A Two.
Q Their names and ages?
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A Marissa, she's 14. Benjamin, he's 11.
Q Do your children know the Shatto children?
A Yes.
Q Mr. Shatto's children, Dave Shatto's
children?
A Yes.
Q Has your daughter ever helped care for them?
A On her own?
Q No. I mean in the context of whatever social
functions you may have done together.
A Yes.
Q Does your daughter have any interest in
baby-sitting or child care?
A Yes, she likes to baby-sit. She's gone
through the baby-sitter program two different times. She
has her current thing for CPR for infants, adults and
children, and there's another certificate she has for I
guess it's the Heimlich or something like that.
Q Have there been discussions between you and
Dave regarding the possibility of using your daughter to
help out --
A Yes.
Q -- if the need should arise?
A Yes.
Q Your involvement with Dave and Vicki has been
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described as sort of on holidays and special occasions.
Would you say that that's a pretty accurate description of
your involvement with the Shattos?
A Yes.
Q Would you get to see Dave and the children
those occasions?
A Yes.
Q And based upon your observations of Dave and
the children, how would you describe Dave as a father?
A Very loving, caring.
Q Did it appear that he was familiar with his
children and their wants and their needs?
A Yes.
Q Any concerns about Dave's parenting abilities
based upon the observations that you've made?
A No.
MR. HELVY: No further questions of this
witness, Your Honor.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q How old did you say your daughter Marissa
was?
A Fourteen.
Q Is she in the courtroom here today?
A Yep.
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Q Which one?
A She has the blue streaks in her hair.
Q Okay. Has she baby-sat in the past?
A Yes.
Q For who, age group?
A Anywhere from, I would say, a six-month-old
infant up to ten years old.
Q At what age did she start baby-sitting?
A She was qualified -- I think it's at 12 that
they make you do that. She was qualified through the girl
scouts, through the Hemlock Council, as well as East
Pennsboro Middle School offers it to the girls. And then
every year they let them recertify their -- you know, the
breathing thing.
Q Now, with regard to your observations of
Dave, in the year time period, say, from January of '04
through the end of '04, the calendar year '04, how many
times do you think you saw Dave?
A Maybe three or four times.
Q Were they holidays or when?
A For great grandma's birthday, we usually go
down to Hoss's. In the summertime when we have picnics,
because I do all the picnics and all the cooking for the
holidays and sometimes on Thanksgiving. I don't think it
was that year.
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Q Was Vicki also present during those
occasions?
A Yes.
Q And was she also with the children and
interacting with them and taking care of them?
A Yes.
Q And would you describe her as a good mother?
A Yes.
Q And since, say, January of 2005, how often
have you seen Dave?
A Dave himself?
Q Dave and the girls together.
A Three or four different times.
Q And for how long each time?
A Sometimes it might have been -- the one time
was an hour and a half, two hours, a couple of minutes. It
was different times when they were doing different things.
Q At his house or your house or where?
A They were at our house the one time for,
like, the two hour thing because they were with my daughter
playing upstairs and looking at her makeup and all that kind
of stuff. The other times --
Q The girls were upstairs with your daughter?
A Right. The other times were like when he was
going to be taking pappy out to eat or they were going to go
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somewhere for something.
MS. RADCLIFF: That's all.
THE COURT: Anything else?
MR. HELVY: No, sir.
THE COURT: You may step down.
MR. HELVY: Rob Campbell.
Whereupon,
ROBERT D. CAMPBELL, JR.,
having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. HELVY:
Q Please state your full name for the record.
A Robert D. Campbell, Jr.
Q And how long have you known Dave?
A Oh, for about ten years, since about '95.
Q Are you married?
A Yes, I am.
Q Have any children?
A Just had a three month old at the end of this
month.
Q What is the context in which you came to kn
Dave?
A I became friends with a foreign exchange
student from Japan, and he was involved in judo, and we
became real good friends. I knew HACC had a judo program,
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so I decided to take the class. And about a month into
class I dislocated my shoulder and collapsed my right lung,
and I had to come back the next semester.
When I came back the next semester, Dave and
I kind of hit it off, and he invited me back if I wanted to
continue on in the program. And it just snowballed into a
friendship, and I've been going to classes pretty much
solidly ever since.
Q Have you attended Dave's HACC classes? Is
that what you're saying?
A Yeah, that's what I mean. I would come back
to the judo classes, and I would come into the self-defense
classes. It just makes classes smoother having someone to
demonstrate on instead of pulling a student off from the
floor.
Q So you would assist him with teaching of the
class?
A I would be -- whatever he needed done, I
would assist, yes.
Q As far as sort of the
Dave's life, these HACC classes, did
come to those HACC classes, and if s?
he cancelled those classes?
A There were times that
class, be it for whatever reason. I
priority of things in
you ever see Dave not
D for any reason? Has
he would not come to
know I've called the
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office -- well, before I got e-mail, and that's how we
communicate now mostly, I would call the office and
sometimes he wouldn't be there. He would be at home with a
sick kid or he would have to go on something for business or
whatever. It's very, very rare. I would say maybe once a
semester or twice, two classes at the very most.
Q Have you had the opportunity to watch Dave
interact with his kids?
A When the kids would come into the class every
now and then, it wasn't a lot, but the kids were happy to be
there. They would bring in their coloring books. They were
happy to see daddy, and, you know, mom would bring them in,
and it would seem as normal as pie to me.
Q Any concerns about Dave's interaction with
the kids?
A No. The kids seemed to adore their father.
Kids don't listen sometimes. We were moving and everything,
and he would say get your books done, do your homework, and
I think they were just so excited to have me over and they
were just kind of showing off. They lost the ball in the
backyard. They were just running around having a good old
time. But it's like he said, once or twice and the kids
would settle down, and they would do their assignments.
Q Have you had the opportunity to speak to Dave
about his sort of parenting approach as between him and
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Vicki and the children?
A From what I can tell, both parents love their
children. I mean, as far as I know Vicki, she's a loving
mother and nothing less. Dave is very by the books. He
likes things -- he wants his kids to be first. He wants --
you know, I mean, that's the whole reason why class has been
cancelled as far as the HACC end. He wants the kids to come
first, and that's essentially it as far as I know on Dave's
side.
MR. HELVY: I have nothing further.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q When I looked at the sheet, as far as
canceling the class, it looked like there weren't enough
students, his salary would have been reduced.
A Yeah. The e-mail I got said that there was
about eight students with about two weeks to go, and the
dean, or whatever, mentioned about having to either take the
class at a reduced rate or cancel it all together. And part
of the problem was they didn't seem too keen at that point
at the co-teaching right now. So all along Dave said the
kids come first. As much as it kills him to cancel class,
you know, it's just the way it has to be right now.
Q But he's had these kids for a while, and he's
never cancelled class in the past to make them first, this
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is the first time.
THE COURT: That is argumentative. Next
question.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q The times that you've seen these kids, it has
always been at judo class?
A Usually at judo class, and when we helped
them move out of the house the one day, we picked up the
kids and everything, and I basically spent the afternoon
with them. But, yeah, the majority is when they come into
class.
Q And mom brought them there?
A Usually I would see her come in with the
kids, you know, like I said, you know, every once in
awhile.
Q Do you know when that was?
A Oh, gee. When I said it was like rarity, I
meant it. It wasn't very often. So it wasn't like I had
them under a microscope, but when I did see them, it was
just, you know, a happy little family coming in to see
dad.
Q Like one, two times do you think?
A It could be possibly. It could be as many
as five or so. I mean, you're asking me over a ten year
period, maybe five times, sure. It wasn't like 15, 20,
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absolutely not.
Q And this five times was over, as you said, a
ten year period?
A Yeah, so it was off and on.
MS. RADCLIFF: Thanks. Nothing else.
THE COURT: You may step down.
MR. HELVY: Your Honor, I had one other
witness who is not here at this moment. She had indicated
that -- when we had discussed this, I told her I thought we
would be done by the morning. She indicated she had
something she had to run to, that she would come back. Can
I take a crack at making an offer?
MS. RADCLIFF: No, because I have three other
witnesses that couldn't stay, unless we are going to take
them all.
THE COURT: Well, if she is not here. If she
walks back in, fine.
MR. HELVY: Thank you, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Mother's witnesses.
MS. RADCLIFF: I would like to call Mary
Schmidt.
Whereupon,
MARY A. SCHMIDT,
having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
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DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q Would you please state your name and address.
A My name is Mary A. Schmidt. I live at 149
Hanshue Street in Steelton, Pennsylvania.
Q And are you acquainted with either of the
parties in this case?
A I'm acquainted with both of them.
Q And how long have you known Vicki?
A I've known Vicki since 1991 when I got my job
at the Railroad Retirement Board.
Q So you know her as a coworker?
A And a friend, we're both.
Q And how long have you known Dave?
A I met him around the same time, but at that
point they had no kids and I didn't see him as frequently.
I saw her more.
Q Do you know the girls?
A Yes, I do. I baby-sit them sometimes.
Q Could you tell me some of your observations
of these parties?
A We would invite each other's kids to birthday
parties, you know, my kids -- you know, she would invite my
kids over to her house, her kids over to the pool for my son
and all that stuff.
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On one occasion, we had a birthday party at
the pool, and Dave just sat away from everybody. I don't
think he had his laptop that day, but he sat away from
everybody, and Vicki was in the pool with the kids. So I
didn't see him interact very much with them at that party.
And, in fact, the last couple birthday
parties I don't think -- for my daughter, I don't think he
even was there. I think just Vicki brought the girls.
Q Was there a dance recital?
A Yes, my daughter's Andrea. She takes dance.
I invited -- I said, hey, Vicki, you know, maybe your girls
will get interested in it, you know, because we've been
doing it since she was eight, four years. I said to bring
everybody. I said, you know, it's fun to watch. They have
little kids, good kids, you know, adult kids and whatever.
And I sat there -- Emma and Laura sat on
either side of me, and Vicki sat next to Dave. Dave was in
the aisle, and almost the whole entire time he was on his
laptop. I looked at him and went, why are you doing that.at
my daughter's recital? I was kind of offended. I mean, you
don't bring that type of junk into a dance recital. He
wasn't even watching it. He wasn't even interacting with
his children. They were sitting next to me.
Q Did he come to your 40th birthday party?
A Yes, he did.
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Q What happened?
A I don't want to admit I'm 40.
Q You're 38?
A Yeah, there we go, 38. Thank you. I'm not
40 yet. Anyway, yeah, Vicki and Dave came to my 40th
birthday party, and they were somewhere else first and then
they came in. And then my sister -- we all decided to go
back to my house, you know, because I was having --
everybody was having fun and everything.
Well, Dave didn't want to come back to my
house, and the girls wanted to see each other, you know, my
children, and he insisted that the only way he was going to
come back to my house was if he could play guitar. So he
went the whole way back to 5525 to get the guitar to come
back to my house, which is about 30 minutes away, and come
the whole way back just so he could play guitar, but he
didn't want to come unless he could play his guitar.
Q Who stayed with the girls during that time?
A Vicki.
Q How would you describe -- have you seen Vicki
interact with the kids?
A Yes, many occasions.
Q Tell me what you've observed about her?
A Vicki is a very good mother. She is very
self-conscious about her daughters at every second. Anytime
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I've been around her she is watching them, making sure
they're okay and making sure they're fed, they're taken care
of. I just think she's wonderful. I think she's a
wonderful mother.
Q Have you seen particularly things that she's
done for them, if you can recall?
A Well, I remember her bringing in one set of
Halloween costumes she made for them. I'm so craft
horrible. And I said to Vicki, how did you do that? They
were beautiful. She made these handmade costumes a couple
years and brought them into the office.
I've been around her kids on occasions, you
know, where she was concerned about them, you know, and then
she would, you know, come over and get them or I'll call her
right away and she comes. She's on the spot with them.
I also work with her. So I hear when the day
care called or when they call for her to come get them,
their sick. I've been there at work with her since 191.
No, Emma didn't get born until 195 but --
0 So there have been occasions where she has
left work?
A Many occasions, many, many.
MS. RADCLIFF: That's all.
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CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. HELVY:
Q Your husband plays guitar, doesn't he?
A Yes, he does.
Q And, in fact, that evening Dave got his
guitar and came back to your house and played guitar with
your husband?
A But not at my husband's suggestion. It was
at Dave's suggestion. My husband --
THE COURT: You answered the question.
THE WITNESS: I'm sorry.
BY MR. HELVY:
Q With regard to concern with the kids, do you
recall a Sunday evening in February when Vicki was in the
Poconos --
A Yes, I do.
Q -- with the children? Dave called you that
evening because he was concerned about his daughters, didn'
he?
A Right, and I understand that.
Q And when Dave called you, did he advise you
that he didn't know where they were or how to get in touch
with them?
A Yes, he did.
Q Are you aware of the fact that his mother
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died that weekend?
A He told me, and I met his mother too. I've
talked to her on the phone several times too, a very nice
lady.
MR. HELVY: No further questions.
THE COURT: You may step down.
MS. RADCLIFF: I would like to call Clark
Roush.
Whereupon,
CLARK D. ROUSH,
having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q Would you please state your full name and
address.
A Clark D. Roush, 414 Cassell Street,
Marysville, PA.
Q Are you related to either of the parties in
this case?
A Yes, Vicki's my sister.
Q Have you had a relationship with Vicki for a
long time?
A Yes.
Q Some people don 't as siblings.
A Yes.
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Q You have to know my family.
A Yes.
Q How about the children?
A Yes.
Q Do you see them frequently?
A Once a month maybe.
Q Tell me what you've been able to observe,
say in the last ten years, of describing Vicki and the
kids.
A In several, attached to the hip. I mean,
they're always together.
Q What about Dave, have you had an opportunity
to observe him during that time period?
A I would say Dave's a very loving father, but
I don't consider his involvement to be as much.
Q Have you seen times when he's distanced
himself?
A Yes.
Q Can you describe that?
A Situations where we would have get-togethers
Dave would go off on his own on his computers, to do
whatever, work out, play guitar, whatever.
Q And who was left with the children?
A Vicki.
Q Do you recall a party for your son at Chuck E
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Cheese?
A Yes, I do.
Q Can you describe what
A It was a situation my
two years ago, he was turning three
four. We had a party for him at Chin
of people showed up, Vicki, Dave and
as well.
Dave brought one of his laptops with him, an
I remember thinking to myself why is he even here. He's not
even enjoying any of this. Vicki and the girls were off
playing, doing whatever, playing all of the games, and
Dave's involvement was sitting at the table with his laptop.
Q You said that they are joined at the hip.
A Yes.
Q What kinds of things have you observed Vicki
doing for her children?
A Everything. Everywhere she goes they're
together with each other. Everything they do, whether it's
going to church, whether it's -- you know, anything.
MS. RADCLIFF: That's all I have.
MR. HELVY: No cross.
THE COURT: You may step down.
MS. RADCLIFF: Lisa Taglang.
happened that day?
son, I believe it was
-- no, he was turning
:?k E Cheese, and a lot
the girls being there
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Whereupon,
LISA TAGLANG,
having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q Would you please state your full name and
address.
A You would think this is a straightforward
question for me, but it won't be. My given name -- my check
signing name is Elizabeth Taglang, but everybody knows me as
Lisa. That's my nickname. I didn't know if I had to be
official or not. My address is 5500 Westbury Drive, Enola,
Pennsylvania.
Q Are you acquainted with the parties in this
case?
A Yes, I am. They were my neighbors.
Q For how long?
A I'm thinking it was about eight years. We
were one of the initial folks in the neighborhood, and they
came a year and a half or so later.
Q Do you have any children?
A I have two children, a 16 year old going on
17, and a daughter who just turned 14.
Q How long have you really come to know Vicki?
A I've really come to know the Shattos probably
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in the past, I would say, three or four years now. Our
kids -- my younger daughter and Laura went to the same
elementary school, and the girls were in after school care
together. And my daughter, Sara, would get together with
the girls a lot, especially more during the summer months
when there was more time to be out and about the
neighborhood.
Q How often do you think you would see them,
Vicki and Dave and the girls?
A Oh, well, depending on if it was during the
school year, I would see the girls every morning. During
the summer months, I would see them several times a week.
It was sometimes brief meetings. Sometimes it's much more
involved, chatting, what have you, but fairly frequently.
Q Can you tell me what your observations were?
A My observations were that Vicki was the
primary caretaker. She was always with the girls. She knew
what was going on with them. I think Dave -- I have to say
I didn't get the opportunity to know Dave as much because it
was always Vicki that -- you know, as moms you chat, but she
was always with the girls.
So if my daughter would go over or we wanted
to get the kids together, it was always Vicki was the
contact. I don't think that's always necessarily the case
because I know in my household my husband, again with two
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girls, he's often the contact a lot of times with the kids.
THE COURT: Whoa, whoa. She was the contact,
right?
THE WITNESS: Yes, she was the contact.
Sorry.
THE COURT: Next question.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q So you saw her almost always with the girls.
Did you ever observe Dave with the girls alone?
A Directly with the girls, no, like taking the
someplace. I'll stop there.
Q Okay. What about -- I think you wanted to
say something about school buses and school bus stops. Why
don't you describe that.
A Okay. The school bus stop is at the end of
my driveway, which is probably the distance from myself to
the chairs behind you, and so the school children -- the
elementary school children are out there every day. I'm
stretching my brain to think, okay, if I had to quantify how
much Dave was out in his driveway with the kids, how much
would it be?
Honestly, I'm going to say at the most it was
50 percent of the time he would stand out there with a
coffee cup in the morning at the car waiting until the girls
got on the bus, but approximately 50 percent of the time he
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wasn't out there. I would look out, you know, and see the
kids. When my daughter was going to school, I would, you
know -- if I wasn't out there, I would just pull up my shade
and look at her.
Q What about clothing for the girls?
A There were a couple of times I was concerned
because --
THE COURT: Let's not get into clothing.
These kids --
THE WITNESS: No, no, this was an issue.
THE COURT: No clothing. Next question.
MS. RADCLIFF: That's all I have.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. HELVY:
Q The Shatto's house from your house where the
bus stop is, about how far away?
A It is two houses up on the far side of the
street, the opposite side of the street.
Q Do you know whether Mr. Shatto could observe
his children from his house?
A Unless he's on his front porch, there is no
way you can look out the front of their house and see the
kids at the bus stop. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't believe
the line of vision would allow that.
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l J
r
MR. HELVY: No further questions, Your Honor.
THE COURT: You may step down.
MS. RADCLIFF: I have no further witnesses.
THE COURT: Let me see where I am on my other
case. Do you two want me to talk to the children?
MS. RADCLIFF: Yes.
THE COURT: I will let you know what the time
frame here is.
BY THE COURT:
(Whereupon, a brief recess was taken.)
(Whereupon, the following discussion was
held in chambers with Emma Shatto:)
Q Hi, Emma. I'm Judge Bayley. I know you are
dying to go back to school.
A No, I'm not.
Q Do you like the summer?
A Yes.
Q What do you like doing best during the
summertime?
A Swimming, practicing swimming, practicing
kickball, basketball and soccer.
Q I can understand why you don't want to go
back to school. When you get to school, what is your
favorite subject?
A Math.
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Q Really. That's great.
A I'm a good math student.
Q That's wonderful. You are going to go into
what grade?
A Fifth.
Q The current arrangement whereby you are
seeing your dad, how is that working?
A I just wanted it, like, back to how it used
to be because my mom's been telling me that if we're going
to keep -- if we're going to keep this extra Tuesday, it's
going to be kind of hard especially for me because I'm going
into fifth grade and I have a lot of different kinds of
stuff going on now and especially classes.
Q What kind of stuff are you going to have
going on besides classes?
A Like basketball, dance. I'm going to be
having, like, bigger math stuff. They're going to give me
harder tests now.
Q That is probably true.
A So it's going to be kind of hard carrying
books around between house to house because with this extra
Tuesday it's going to be kind of hard. But I wanted it -- I
want it to go back to how it used to be at the beginning of
the summer.
At the beginning of the summer it was just
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every Thursday and every other weekend. I think I like that
better because that way it's easier for me to read my books
and be able to study, because with all the fighting that's
been going around since I started school it's been kind of
hard, especially last year.
I actually almost failed -- I almost failed
a book report, and I actually did fail something in social
studies because of the fighting. I couldn't, like, handle
it anymore.
Q I heard by the end of the year though your
grades were better, is that right?
A Yeah, by the end of the year my grades were
better. This was in February and March that happened. But
by the end of the year, my grades had gotten better in math
especially.
Q Well, now that your mother and dad are
separated, are they fighting less?
A They don't even fight because they hardly see
each other anymore unless, like, they're meeting with their
counselor or something. But I'm glad they stopped fighting
because it's, like, really hard for me -- for me and Laura,
especially Laura now because she's going into fourth grade,
and she's going to have a lot tougher stuff. They actually
start giving you book reports every month. She's in third
grade, and they only give you book reports every three
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months.
Q This school sounds tough to me.
A Yeah. Well, it's a very good school anyways.
Q Do you like the school?
A Yeah, it's very fun, especially when you get
the fun teachers.
Q Is that where you have always gone?
A I've always gone to that school.
Q Did you go to some type of camp this summer?
A Yeah, Camp Friendship at the YMCA.
Q Do you like that?
A Yeah, it was fun, but I still miss my old
camp. The other camp was much funner. Well, they didn't
make me do SA's. They made me do an SA and write to the
senator. I met the senator.
Q You did. What's his name?
A Pat Vance. I met her.
Q She used to work right here in this
courthouse.
A Really. My teacher, Miss Connor, she was my
social studies and my math teacher, she's one of my favorite
teachers, well, she knew a lot of people. So for a social
studies lesson she asked Pat Vance -- they're friends from
awhile back I guess. She asked her to come and visit the
fourth grade, and she did and I actually met her.
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Q Well, that's pretty nice. Well, this is
quite a young lady. Do you lawyers have any questions for
this fine lady here, or shall we let it go at this? I got
good picture.
MS. RADCLIFF: You are very vocal, aren't
you.
THE COURT: She likes to talk. This is my
kind of girl.
BY MR. HELVY:
Q Hi there.
A Hi.
Q I'm the guy behind the bush. Have you had a
chance to talk to your mom a lot about the upcoming school
year and the schedules?
A Yeah. I already have some of my stuff for
school, but I need some more, like, glue and stuff, and
that's what my mom's getting me.
Q What about the schedule as to when you see
your dad and when you see your mom?
A Well, I'm starting to think that what my
mom -- what we used to have that my mom wanted, which was I
think every Thursday and then every other weekend, that
would be -- she said that that would probably be a little
better for me because I'm always -- I'm going to be having
even harder stuff for myself and I'm not going to be -- I'm
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not going to be able to be switching back and forth carrying
all those books because, like, what if I forget a book at my
dad's house and I need it for the next day with my mom.
That's not going to be very good. So that's why I wanted it
to go back the way it was at the beginning of the summer.
MR. HELVY: All right. That was the only
question I had.
THE COURT: Ms. Radcliff.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q You are going to be top dog this year, aren't
you?
A I don't know.
Q No. In fifth grade?
A I don't know.
Q Aren't you -- don't you get to go to camp
this year?
A Yeah.
Q You are going to be top dog. You are going
to be at the head of the class, aren't you? Isn't this the
last year before you go up to middle school?
A Yeah.
Q That makes you top dog. Are you looking
forward to that?
A Yeah. The only thing I'm not going to miss
is my sister whining at me every single time at recess,
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whining at me telling me that she just got hurt, and finally
my friend Nicole's not going to be coming whining at me,
Laura got hurt, Laura got hurt.
Q Do you have a lot of friends in school?
A Yeah, I have a lot of girls that are friends.
I have a few boys that are friends.
Q Well, they will come.
THE COURT: If I ask your sister, are you a
good big sister, what is she going to tell me?
EMMA SHATTO: She's going to tell you that I
hit her a lot because she's always really rude.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q And you mess up her hair, right?
A Yes, I mess up her hair. I like to take her
hair bands. That's the fun part.
THE COURT: Will you do me a favor, would you
go get that little sister and bring her back here.
(Whereupon, the discussion with Emma Shatto
was concluded.)
(Whereupon, the following discussion was
held in chambers with Laura Shatto:)
BY THE COURT:
Q Laura, how old are you?
A Eight. I' m turning nine on September 12th.
Q What grade are you going into?
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A Fourth.
Q When you are in school, what is your favorite
thing, what course?
A Social studies.
Q That sounds good. Are you looking forward to
going back to school?
A Um-hum.
Q Did you have a nice summer?
A Yeah.
Q Did you go to camp?
A Um-hum.
Q What do you like to do the best when you are
not going to school?
A Swim.
Q You like to swim, okay. Is that big sister
the best big sister in the world?
A Um-hum.
Q Is she really, that's great to hear. I am
glad you said that. She'll appreciate that.
A She is my only one.
Q Your only sister, only sister, okay.
THE COURT: Any questions of this fine young
lady?
BY MR. HELVY:
Q Just how are things going now that you have
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your dad living one place and mom the other place? Is
everything going okay there?
A I don't care. I like it.
Q It works out all right?
A Yeah.
THE COURT: You're flexible, good. That is
nice to hear.
BY MR. HELVY:
Q The back and forth that you have with mom a
dad, is that working out for you?
A Um-hum.
MR. HELVY: That's really all I have.
BY MS. RADCLIFF:
Q Do you think there's going to be any change
when school starts?
A No, not really.
MS. RADCLIFF: That's all I have.
THE COURT: Good. It is a pleasure meeting
you and your sister. We will get you out of this courthouse
within about 15 minutes, okay.
LAURA SHATTO: Okay.
THE COURT: Good-bye.
(Whereupon, the discussions with Laura Shatto
was concluded.)
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i
(Whereupon, argument was held off the
record.)
(Whereupon, the proceedings were concluded.)
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CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the proceedings are
contained fully and accurately in the notes taken by me on
the above cause and that this is a correct transcript of
same.
1
Pamela R. Sheaffer
Official Court Reporter
The foregoing record of the proceedings on
the hearing of the within matter is hereby approved and
directed to be filed.
Edgar 19.11
Ninth Judicial District
234
,.,o
't?-
DAVID B. SHATTO IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
V.
VICKI J. SHATTO 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
ORDER OF COURT
AND NOW, this day of December, 2006, following a hearing,
IT IS ORDERED:
(1) The petition of David B. Shatto to hold Vicki J. Shatto in contempt of a
custody order of August 26, 2005, IS DISMISSED.
(2) The petition of David B. Shatto to modify the custody order of August 26,
2005, by awarding him primary physical custody of Emma Jo Shatto, born February 28,
1995, and Laura Jo Shatto, born September 12, 1996, IS DENIED.'
.daavid B. Shatto, Pro se
133 Oaklea Drive
Harrisburg, PA 17110
Joanne Clough, Esquire
For Vicki Shatto
By the
Edgar B. Bay
'Emma and Laura have thrived under the current order in which they are in the
primary physical custody of their mother. The father's difficulties in
communicating with the mother regarding their shared legal custody is to a great
extent self-inflicted by his suffocating communications and the way in which he
demeans her. Those difficulties do not warrant modifying the physical custody
arrangement for Emma and Laura. The parents should undertake co-parenting
counseling with a positive attitude to improve their discourse regarding their
children.
C3 c--? c" a
C.J`1 <
Ui
DAVID B. SHATTO, Plaintiff
V.
VICKI J. SHATTO, Defendant
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
:NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
CIVIL ACTION - LAW
IN CUSTODY
NOTICE TO DEFEND AND CLAIM RIGHTS
r
o?
n
You, Vicki J. Shatto, Defendant in the above-captioned custody action, have
been sued in court to obtain custody of the following children: Emma Jo Shatto and
Laura Jo Shatto.
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You are ordered to appear in person at , on
the day of , 2010, at_ _.m., for
[ ] a pretrial conference
[ ] a hearing before the Court
If you fail to appear as provided by this Order, an Order for custody, partial custody, or
visitation may be entered against you or the court may issue a warrant for your arrest.
YOU SHOULD TAKE THIS PAPER TO YOUR LAWYER AT ONCE. IF YOU DO NOT
HAVE A LAWYER OR CANNOT AFFORD ONE, GO TO OR TELEPHONE THE
OFFICE SET FORTH BELOW TO FIND OUT WHERE YOU CAN GET LEGAL HELP.
CUMBERLAND COUNTY BAR ASSOCIATION
32 S. Bedford Street
Carlisle, PA 17013
?l, .20 /?/ - 05 Nsh
Alel
(717) 249-3166 0 a 01376,o3
By
David B. Shatto
133 Oaklea Road
Harrisburg, PA 17110
(717) 433-1608
DAVID B. SHATTO, Plaintiff
V.
VICKI J. SHATTO, Defendant
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
:NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
CIVIL ACTION - LAW
IN CUSTODY
EMERGENCY PETITION FOR MODIFICATION - CUSTODY
AND NOW, Plaintiff files an EMERGENCY Petition for Modification against
Defendant, and in support thereof, avers the following:
1. Plaintiff is David B. Shatto, ("Father"), who currently resides at 133
Oaklea Road, Harrisburg, Dauphin County, Pennsylvania 17110.
2. Defendant is Vicki J. Shatto ("Mother"), who currently resides at
1112 Cross Creek Road, Mechanicsburg, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania
17050.
3. The parties are the parents of the following children:
Name(s) Present Address(es) Age(s)
Emma Jo Shatto 1112 Cross Creek Road 14
Mechanicsburg, PA 17050
And
133 Oaklea Road
Harrisburg, PA 17110
Laura Jo Shatto 1112 Cross Creek Road 13
Mechanicsburg, PA
And
133 Oaklea Road
Harrisburg, PA 17110
4. The parties participated in litigation concerning the custody of the children
in this court in August 2005 and December 2006. As a result of these hearings,
Plaintiff and Defendant share custody of the children under an order of this court (05-
1748 Civil Term) dated August 26, 2005. Attached hereto, as Exhibit A, is a copy of
said order. Minor changes to the 2005 order were made by orders on September 28,
2006 and December 28, 2006. Attached hereto, as Exhibits B and C, are copies of said
orders, respectively.
5. Concurrent with the filing of this emergency petition Plaintiff has filed a
Petition for Modification - Custody. In which, the Plaintiff states that the best interests
and permanent welfare of the children will be served by granting the relief requested.
The children's needs for physical safety, physical and mental health, academic
success, positive social interaction with friends and family, and unrestricted access to
both parents will be best served if the children are in the Plaintiffs primary care and
custody. The children have requested Plaintiff to request the court to grant him physical
custody so that they may reside at in his home every day and night of the year. The
children wish to visit with Defendant at times of their choosing and at the convenience of
both Plaintiff and Defendant. Having discussed the children's request with them,
Plaintiff believes that granting their request is in their best interest.
6. On or about January 31, 2010, the children informed Plaintiff that they no
longer wished to reside with Defendant and wished to live with Plaintiff every day and
night. On or about February 1, 2010, the children informed Defendant of their wishes.
7. Children have informed Plaintiff that they are uncomfortable and scared at
Defendant's residence. Children have informed Plaintiff of intense verbal arguments
between Children and Defendant and between Children and Defendant's living partner
and between Defendant and her living partner. The Children have stated that they have
observed physical confrontations between Defendant and her living partner and suspect
additional physical confrontations. Plaintiff believes that this environment is not safe
and is unhealthy and disruptive for the Children.
8. On February 15, 2010, Children refused to return to the Defendant's
custody.
9. Despite various attempts by Plaintiff since February 2, 2010, Defendant
refused to communicate with Plaintiff in order to resolve the matter.
10. Plaintiff requests that Children be placed in his custody for the Children's
safety, health and wellbeing until the Court acts upon Plaintiffs Petition for Modification
- Custody.
WHEREFORE, Plaintiff respectfully requests that this Honorable Court enter an Order
granting Plaintiff primary physical custody of the children.
Respectfully submitte
By
David B. Shatto
133 Oaklea Road
Harrisburg, PA 17110
(717) 433-1608
Plaintiff
Dated: February 16, 2010
VERIFICATION
1. Subject to the penalties of 18 Pa. C.S.A. § 4904 relating to unsworn
falsification to authorities, I hereby certify that the facts set forth in the foregoing
document are true and correct to the best of my information and belief.
David B. Shatto
Dated: February 16, 2010
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
The undersigned hereby certifies that on the 16th day of February 2010, a true and
correct copy of the foregoing document was served by first-class mail, postage prepaid,
upon the following:
Vicki J. Shatto
1112 Cross Creek Road
Mechanicsburg, PA 17050
lB. Shatto
1-1Uw-cc`,-?Ul?? 11 - c. FROP1: NII?JI ! TO: 96-1 .j F' ?: -
l17, r7
LX ti ?r
AUG. 26. 2005 ;I<R 08:26 COURT6 A. -
DAVID D, St-iR, i-TO, IN THE COURT OF '?OIAIMQN PI_EfkS OF
PLAINTIFF GUMS! RL?b,ND C,OUtr!TY, PEllNISYLV/- iIgIfi
V.
VICKI J. SHA T TO,
DEFENDANT 05-1-146 CIVIL TERM
ORDER OF COURT
AND NOW, this clay cal August, 2005, following a hearing on
the merits, IT IS ORDERED:
(1) All prior custody carders are vacated and repInced wlth thl! order.
(2) David B. Shatto and Vicki J. Shatto shall have shared legal custody of their
daughters Emma Jo Shatto, born February 28, 1995, and Laura Jo Shatto, born
September `i2, 1996.
(S) The mother shall have primary physical custody of Emma and Laura. The
children shall attend school from the rnother's residence as she arranges,
(4) During the school year, the father shall have temporary physical custody of
Emma and Laura:
(a) Every other Friday from after school until Monday morning before
school.
(b) On the Tuesday following the next weekend from after school until the
Wednesday morning before school.
(5) During each summer school vacation period, the father shall have Emma and
Laura for the first two weeks, the mother for the next two weeks, and Lhe'lather for the
next four weeks. Then the parents shall alternate weeks until the heginnino of the
school year.
`G-26-2005 11:28 FR01'1:1,1Wh1
AUG. 26. 2005'M, 1) 00:26 C0UET6
(6) HOLIDAYS
AND SPECIAL GAYS
Easter Day
Memorial Day
Labor Day
Thanksgiving 1` Half
Thanksgiving 2n o Half
Christmas 1°` Half
Christmas 2"p Half
Mothers Day
Father's Day
1 ( A T0: 957145-'
???
ri,OE.
'NIA ES EVEN ODD
'EARS YEARS
From 5 p.m. the evening before Mother Father
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
From 6 p.m. the evening before Father (Mother
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
From 6 p.m. the evening before Father l0other
the holiday to 5 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
From 6 p.m. the evening before Mother Father
Thanksgiving Day to 3 p.m. on
Thanksgiving Day
From 3 p.m. on Thanksgiving Father bother
Day to 6 p.m. the day after
Thanksgiving Day
From 9 a.m, on 12124 to 3 p.m. Father tdiother
on 12/25
From 3 p.m. on 12125 to 6 p,rn. Mother Father
on 12;26
From 6 p.m. the evening before leather Mother
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
From 6 p.m. the evening before Father Father
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
By th
Edgar B. Bayley, J.
P ._
A
DAVID B. SHATTO, IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
Plaintiff
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
V.
CIVIL ACTION - LAW
VICKI J. SHATTO,
11\1 CUSTODY
Defendant
Bayley, J. - -
ORDER OF COURT
AND NOW, this c>,, 9?? day of September, 2006, upon consideration of the
attached Custody Conciliation Summary Report, it is hereby ordered and directed as
follows:
1. Pending further Order of Court, this Court's Order of August 25, 2005, shall
remaining in full force and effect, with the following modifications.
2. The parties shall discontinue relying on text messaging for communication.
Parental communication via e-mail shall be limited to factual information regarding the
children's schedule, medical and educational issues. The parties shall not discuss the
divorce or economic issues in their e-mails.
3. The parties shall read Custody Chaos, Personal Peace by Jeffrey P.
Wittmann, Ph.D.
4. Each parent may attend the practices and games for the children's extra-
curricular activities without regard to the custodial schedule.
5. Custodial exchanges shall be done at curb-side, with the parent relinquishing
custody remaining in their residence, and the parent receiving custody remaining in the
vehicle. In order to establish a no-conflict zone for the children, the parents shall not have
discussions between themselves at the time of the custodial exchange. Neither shall the
children be used as messengers between the parents.
6. The summer schedule set forth in Paragraph 5 of the August 26, 2005 Order
shall end on the Friday before school commences each year. The summer schedule
specified in Paragraph 5 of the August 26, 2005 Order shall commence with the Friday that
school is dismissed or the first Friday thereafter, if school is not dismissed on a Friday. The
Friday following the commencement of school commences the school year's alternating
weekend schedule with the parent who did not have custody of the children the previous
weekend. The Court recognizes that this may mean that Father has custody the weekend
-A
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
before school is dismissed in June and may commence his two custodial weeks during the
summer the Friday after school is dismissed.
brief pr / hearil
;te he er FatJXer shou be req
imony t time trial. T
umber?'nd Cou y Court?iol
o' ock sM.
g konfere ce with th? Court stall be held n the is of _
wired to ve coups I for pur oses of taki g the chit ren's Z 13B
pre-hg'aring is s eduled i Courtroom umber 2 of the
se, o ` the f day g'r 06, at
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8. A hearing on Father's August 31, 2006, Petition for Contempt and on Father's
Petition for Modification of Custody is schedule m Courtr om Number 2 of the Cumberland
County Courthouse, on the _ day of Cj011-k, 2006, at P7f--?
o'clock _L,M., at which time testimony will be taken. For the purposes of the hearing, the
Father, David B. Shatto, shall be deemed to be the moving party and shall proceed initially
with testimony. Counsel for the parties or the parties pro se shall file with the Court and
opposing counsel/party a memorandum setting forth each party's position on custody, a list
of witnesses who are expected to testify at the hearing, and a summary of the anticipated
testimony of each witness. These memoranda shall be filed at least ten days prior to the
hearing date. Father's memoranda, exhibits and witness list shall be filed twenty days prior )
to hearing, with a copy to Mother's counsel. Mother's memoranda, exhibits and witne s list
shall b filed ten days prior to earing ands rued upon Father. The Citi?dt'eY1 S?C>`.? )o e-
bm4k +o +?e hear`rocmk veSi*ione? In 6oyl1?M w%A'1\0 t. any parenk present.
9. The parties shall participate in therapeutic family counseling to establish basic
parental dialogue and communication regarding the well being of the children, medical and
educational issues. To the extent that there are unreimbursed medical expenses
associated with this counseling, the unreimbursed cost shall be shared based on a pro-rata
net formula similar to that used by the Domestic Relations Section in the parties' support
matter. The parties' contribution shall be based on their pro-rated contribution to the net
family income.
10. While the custodial scheduled previously provided by this Court is modifiable,
it is modifiable only upon the mutual consent of the parties or pursuant to Order of Court.
Accordingly, if the parties agree to modify the Order, they should confirm their agreement in
writing, which may also be done by e-mail.
BY THE COURT:
s` &*W LII/
Ed r B. Bayley, P.J.
V
Dist: Joanne Harrison Clough, Esquire, 24 N. 32 rd Street, Camp Hill, PA 17011
David B. Shatto, 133 Oaklea Road, Harrisburg, PA 17110
aind he seal o; s- !.Ae, Pa.
T c?
!. .??... da W ..
v
Prot*ho*n'4 ry
DAVID B. SHAT T O,
Plaintiff
V.
VICKI J. SHATTO,
Defendant
13
3 Lo
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
CIVIL ACTION - LAW
IN CUSTODY
CUSTODY CONCILIATION SUMMARY REPORT
IN ACCORDANCE WITH CUMBERLAND COUNTY RULE OF CIVIL PROCEDURE
1915.3-8, the undersigned Custody Conciliator submits the following report:
1. The pertinent information concerning the child who is the subject of this
litigation is as follows:
DAME DATE OF BIRTH CURRENTLY IN THE CUSTODY OF
Emma Jo Shatto February 28, 1995 Mother
Laura Jo Shatto September 12, 1996 Mother
2. Father filed a Petition for Modification of Custody on June 16, 2006. A
Custody Conciliation Conference was scheduled for August 11, 2006. The continuance was
granted to September 1, 2006 due to a vacation conflict for Mother's counsel. Present for
the conference were: the Mother, Vicki J. Shatto, and her new counsel, Joanne Harrison
Clough, Esquire; the Father, David B. Shatto, who participated pro se.
3. The last Order entered in this matter was August 26, 2005. This Order was
entered following hearing.
4. Father filed a Petition to Contempt on August 31, 2006. This Petition was first
served on Mother and her counsel at the Custody Conciliation Conference of September 1,
2006. Accordingly, Mother and her counsel were not prepared initially to address the
allegations without some time to review the document, which was also provided to the
Conciliator.
5. Father's position on custody is as follows: Father thinks that he should have
primary physical custody and Mother should only have contact with the children on
alternating weekends. Because this matter was heard approximately nine months prior to
the filing of the Petition for Modification, Father was asked to provide information regarding
any changes that may have occurred since-this hearing had been held, in which new
developments might support his seeking of primary custody. Since the hearing, Father
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERIA 44
reports that Mother's boyfriend has moved into the home. He further alleges that Mother
has been violating the Order with regard to her failure to share legal custody responsibilities,
failing to follow the physical custody schedule, and with regard to telephone contact. Father
reports that during the third marking period of last school year one of the children's report
cards reflected a drop in grades. The report card shoed improvement during the fourth
marking period. Father takes credit for this improvement in the grades because it was at
that time that he threatened to take legal action against Mother as a result of the lowered
grades. The Conciliator reviewed the report cards at the conference and found that neither
child had a grade lower than C and there were some grades that had changed from A's to
C's during the school year.
Father also expressed concern for the physical safety of the children based on
Mother's boyfriend's being the cause of the children being exposed to second hand smoke.
He further alleges that there is a negative psychological environment because of the yelling,
arguments and profanity between Mother and her boyfriend. Father alleges that as a result
of these disputes, the children stay in their bedroom for hours at a time. Father complains
that the children are reporting to him that the boyfriend refers to him as a "crook." Father
also objects to the children being exposed to fire arms. Father reports that there is
brainwashing of these young girls and complains that they are permitted to use fire arms
without protective equipment and that the fire arms are unsecured on the wall in Mother's
residence. Father reports that there is no communication from Mother when he has e-
mailed her with concerns about the children.
Father reports that Mother's residence is unstable. In support of this assertion, he
cites a time when she was considering moving to Duncannon, which would require the
children to attend what he regards as an inferior school district (Susquenita School District).
Father would prefer that the children go to Susquehanna Township School District.
Father has numerous other concerns: lack of communication with Mother; the bike
helmet at Mother's house doesn't fit one of the children; alleged isolation of the children
because of unsatisfactory telephone contact; Mother not providing the name of the soccer
coach; Mother's financial instability; Mother not giving vital information regarding medical
issues and medication; Mother objecting to Father's going out of town on business and
leaving the children with his brother during his custodial weekends; isolating the children
from his family; Mother sending messages with the children rather than communicating
directly with him and Mother not sending clothing for Father's custodial time.
With regard to the Contempt Petition, Father reports that Mother unilaterally extended
her vacation week in August. Father acknowledges that Mother attempted to send a text
message to him regarding the extension of the weekend but reports that the text messages
did not go through and as a result, he could not figure out what she was sending messages
about. Accordingly, Father did not consent to. Mother extending her vacation week. Father
acknowledges that Mother later gave him make-up time on the weekend immediately
following her vacation week.
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERI0
The parties subsequently had a dispute about when they were to make the shift
between the summer schedule and the school year schedule. Father agreed to consolidate
his Petition for Contempt be heard at the same time as his Petition to Modify the Custody
Order.
6. Mother's position on custody is as follows: Mother objects to the transfer of
primary custody to Father. She acknowledges that the parties have significant amounts of
debt which have not been resolved in the context of their pending divorce proceeding.
Accordingly, she may not be able to remain in the Cumberland Valley School District
because she may not be able to afford housing there. Hence, she was considering moving
to a more affordable community. However, she is not planning to move out of the
Cumberland Valley School District during the present school year.
Mother acknowledges that her boyfriend smokes but says that he does not do so in
the house. She also acknowledges that the boyfriends smells of smoke when he comes
into the home and that the girls complain about it, especially when he gets in the car.
Mother alleges that the Petition filed by Father is due to his desire to reduce his child
support obligation. With regard to the lack of clothing going back and forth between the
homes, Mother reports that the younger child was embarrassed by having to take
belongings back and forth between her parents' homes, so Mother and Father established
separate wardrobes to reduce the child's embarrassment.
Mother acknowledges that she tried to contact Father via text messaging on a cell
phone to address the issue of extending her vacation. She indicated that she did not know
that the text messages had not gone through and points out that Father had make-up time
on the weekend of August 18, 2006 through August 20, 2006.
Mother acknowledges that she and Father do not communicate well and that she
does not open his e-mail, partially because of the content. Rather than deal with the
conflict, it seems that she does not open the e-mail at all. Mother describes some of
Father's e-mails as hurtful, attacking, insulting, and lengthy. Mother further acknowledges
that she has withheld the children's cell phone access as a disciplinary measure, at times.
Mother also points out that Father failed to put her on the emergency contact list when the
children were attending the Y Day Camp this summer.
Mother is willing to provide Father with information regarding the soccer schedule,
and points out that some of the information that she had obtained about the soccer
schedule had changed after she received it, making it inaccurate for Father to use.
7. Pre-hearing issues. After hearing Father's list of concerns, Mother's counsel
asked that the Court address a pre-hearing issue with regard to the children's testimony.
Mother's counsel stated that it appears that significant parts of the testimony that Father
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM o ? ?
would be providing would be coming directly from the children. So that the children not be
subject to direct or cross-examination by Father, who is pro se, against their Mother,
Mother's counsel requests that Father be required to have counsel for the period of time the
children testify.
8. The Conciliator was able to obtain agreement from the parties that they would
communicate basic factual information via e-mails regarding the children's schedule,
medical issues and school issues. This e-mail would not include issues related to finances
or the divorce. The Conciliator also clarified for the parties that no revisions to the schedule
would be made in a unilateral fashion, and that given the non-reliability of text messaging,
the parties should discontinue reliance upon this practice, It is also recommended that each
parent be permitted to attend the children's sport practices without regard to the nature of
the custodial schedule, and that the parties read Custody Chaos Personal Peace by Jeffrey
P. Wittmann, Ph.D, who was the co-founder of the acclaimed "Kids First After Divorce"
program.
It is noted that these parties are experiencing significant lack of communications and
conflict regarding the parenting of their children. It is clear that there is a need for
therapeutic family counseling even to establish the most basic of parental dialogue. If this is
not done, it is unlikely that the circumstances for these children would improve no matter
what the Court would decide regarding the custodial schedule, as the underlying parental
problem would remain unchanged. The Conciliator also recomended a guideline for the
establishment of the beginning of the school year schedule, as contrasted with the summer
schedule.
The parties have agreed to a curbside custodial exchange, with no discussion of
adult issues at the time of the exchange, with the parent relinquishing custody remaining in
their residence at the time of the custodial exchange. It is further recommended that pre-
trial memos, exhibits and witness lists be provided twenty (20) days in advance of trial by
Father, and ten (10) days in advance of trial by Mother. /1
gvzo?
Date
Melissa Peel Greevy, Esquire
Custody Conciliator
:283070
L F ?" C-,
DAVID B. SHATTO IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
V.
VICKI J. SHATTO 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
ORDER OF COURT
AND NOW, this day of December, 2006, following a hearing,
IT IS ORDERED:
(1) The petition of David B. Shatto to hold Vicki J. Shatto in contempt of a
custody order of August 26, 2005, IS DISMISSED.
(2) The petition of David B. Shatto to modify the custody order of August 26,
2005, by awarding him primary physical custody of Emma Jo Shatto, born February 28,
1995, and Laura Jo Shatto, born September 12, 1996, IS DENIED.'
David B. Shatto, Pro se
133 Oaklea Drive
Harrisburg, PA 17110
Joanne Clough, Esquire
For Vicki Shatto :sal
' Emma and Laura have thrived under the current order in which they are in the
primary physical custody of their mother. The father's difficulties in
communicating with the mother regarding their shared legal custody is to a great
extent self-inflicted by his suffocating communications and the way in which he
demeans her. Those difficulties do not warrant modifying the physical custody
arrangement for Emma and Laura. The parents should undertake co-parenting
counseling with a positive attitude to improve their discourse regarding their
children.
11?
c-
DAVID B. SHATTO, Plaintiff : IN THE COURT OF COMMON P6PkS I
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENhC;?YLVANIA rt,
:NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM ~-
CIVIL ACTION - LAW
IN CUSTODY ?'7
VICKI J. SHATTO, Defendant
NOTICE TO DEFEND AND CLAIM RIGHTS
You, Vicki J. Shatto, Defendant in the above-captioned custody action, have
been sued in court to obtain custody of the following children: Emma Jo Shatto and
Laura Jo Shatto.
You are ordered to appear in person at , on
the day of , 2010, at _ _.m., for
[ ] a conciliation or mediation conference
[ ] a pretrial conference
[ ] a hearing before the Court
If you fail to appear as provided by this Order, an Order for custody, partial custody, or
visitation may be entered against you or the court may issue a warrant for your arrest.
YOU SHOULD TAKE THIS PAPER TO YOUR LAWYER AT ONCE. IF YOU DO NOT
HAVE A LAWYER OR CANNOT AFFORD ONE, GO TO OR TELEPHONE THE
OFFICE SET FORTH BELOW TO FIND OUT WHERE YOU CAN GET LEGAL HELP.
CUMBERLAND COUNTY BAR ASSOCIATION
32 S. Bedford Street
Carlisle, PA 17013
7CQ&3
(717) 249-3166
By
David B. Shatto
133 Oaklea Road
Harrisburg, PA 17110
(717) 433-1608
DAVID B. SHATTO, Plaintiff
V.
VICKI J. SHATTO, Defendant
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
:NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
CIVIL ACTION - LAW
IN CUSTODY
PETITION FOR MODIFICATION - CUSTODY
AND NOW, Plaintiff files a Petition for Modification against Defendant, and in
support thereof, avers the following:
1. Plaintiff is David B. Shatto, ("Father"), who currently resides at 133
Oaklea Road, Harrisburg, Dauphin County, Pennsylvania 17110.
2. Defendant is Vicki J. Shatto ("Mother"), who currently resides at
1112 Cross Creek Road, Mechanicsburg, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania
17050.
3. The parties are the parents of the following children:
Name(s) Present Address(es) Age(s)
Emma Jo Shatto 1112 Cross Creek Road 14
Mechanicsburg, PA 17050
And
133 Oaklea Road
Harrisburg, PA 17110
Laura Jo Shatto 1112 Cross Creek Road 13
Mechanicsburg, PA
And
133 Oaklea Road
Harrisburg, PA 17110
4. The parties participated in litigation concerning the custody of the children
in this court in August 2005 and December 2006. As a result of these hearings,
Plaintiff and Defendant share custody of the children under an order of this court (05-
1748 Civil Term) dated August 26, 2005. Attached hereto, as Exhibit A, is a copy of
said order. Minor changes to the 2005 order were made by orders on September 28,
2006 and December 28, 2006. Attached hereto, as Exhibits B and C, are copies of said
orders, respectively.
5. The best interests and permanent welfare of the children will be served by
granting the relief requested. The children's needs for physical safety, physical and
mental health, academic success, positive social interaction with friends and family, and
unrestricted access to both parents will be best served if the children are in the
Plaintiff's primary care and custody. The children have requested Plaintiff to request the
court to grant him physical custody so that they may reside at in his home every day
and night of the year. The children wish to visit with Defendant at times of their
choosing and at the convenience of both Plaintiff and Defendant. Having discussed the
children's request with them, Plaintiff believes that granting their request is in their best
interest.
WHEREFORE, Plaintiff respectfully requests that this Honorable Court enter an Order
granting Plaintiff primary physical custody of the children.
Respectfully submitted,
t
............
By
David B. Shatto
133 Oaklea Road
Harrisburg, PA 17110
(717) 433-1608
Plaintiff
Dated: February 16, 2010
VERIFICATION
1. Subject to the penalties of 18 Pa. C.S.A. § 4904 relating to unsworn
falsification to authorities, I hereby certify that the facts set forth in the foregoing
document are true and correct to the best of my information and belief.
David B. Shatto
Dated: February 16, 2010
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
The undersigned hereby certifies that on the 16th day of February 2010, a true and
correct copy of the foregoing document was served by first-class mail, postage prepaid,
upon the following:
Vicki J. Shatto
1112 Cross Creek Road
Mechanicsburg, PA 17050
David B. Shatto
T0: 9671 49-^ p. a
• iU??-c:6- C90 11 : E7 F1R01'1: NI611.1
t.UC. 26. 2007 ;FM ) 08 : 26 COUR76 T
DAVID B, SHAjFTO, IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
PLAINTIFF C:UMBER ID COUP IITY, PENNSYLVANIA
,
VICKI J. SHATTO,
DEFENDANT 05-1740 01VIL TERM
ORDER OF COUIRIT
AND NOW, this %?-day ref August, 2005, fallowing a hearing on
the merits, IT IS ORDERED:
(,) RN prior custody orders are vacated and replaced with this order.
(2) David B. Shatto and Vicki J. Shatto shall have shared legal custody of their
daughters Emma Jo Shatto, born February 28, 1995, and Laura Jo Shatto, barn
September 12, 1996.
(3) The mother shall have primary physical custody of Emma and Laura. The
children shall attend school from the mother's residence as she arrang9s.
(4) During the school year, the father shall have temporary physical custody of
Emma and Laura:
(a) Every other Friday from after school until Monday morning before
school.
(b) On the Tuesday following the next weekend from after school until the
Wednesday morning before school.
(5) Curing each summer school vacation period, the father shall have Emma and
Laura for the first two weeks, the mother for the next two weeks, and the father for the
next four weeks. Then the parents shall alternate weeks until the beginning of the
l school year.
. ;JG-2?,-2005 11:28 FP.01,1:11141
AUG. 26. 2005 'Fill ) 00 : 26 COURTG
?- T0:967149?-i
PitiGE.
(6) HOLIDAYS TIMIES EVE( ODD
AWD SPECIAL GAPS YEAPS YEARS
Easter Day From 5 p.m. the evening before Mother Father
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
Memorial Day From 6 p,m, the evening before Father Mother
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
labor Day From 6 p.m. the evening before Father brother
the holiday to 6 p.rrn. the day of
of the holiday
Thanksgiving 1') Half From 6 p.m. the evening before Mother Father
Thanksgiving Day to 3 p.m. on
Thanksgiving Day
Thanksgiving 2nd Half From 3 p.m. on Thanksgiving Father Mother
Day to 6 p.m. the day after
Thanksgiving Day
Christmas I o1 Half From S a,m, on 12/24 to 3 p.m. Father Mother
on 12/25
Christmas 2"° Half From 3 p.m. on 12/25 to 6 p,m. Mother Father
on 12/26
Mother's Day From 6 p.m. the evening before Mother Nflother
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
Father's Day From 6 p.m. the evening before Father Father
the holiday to 6 p.m. the, day of
of the holiday /
BY th_q'Cou
P.
Edgar B. Bayley, J.
DAVID B. SHATTO, IN THE COURT OF C014MON PLEAS OF
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
Plaintiff
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
V.
CIVIL ACTION - LAW
VICKI J. SHATTO,
IN CUSTODY
Defendant
Bayley, J. - -
ORDER OF COURT
AND NOW, this (:291h day of September, 2006, upon consideration of the
attached Custody Conciliation Summary Report, it is hereby ordered and directed as
follows:
1. Pending further Order of Court, this Court's Order of August 25, 2005, shall
remaining in full force and effect, with the following modifications.
2. The parties shall discontinue relying on text messaging for communication.
Parental communication via e-mail shall be limited to factual information regarding the
children's schedule, medical and educational issues. The parties shall not discuss the
divorce or economic issues in their e-mails.
3. The parties shall read Custody Chaos Personal Peace by Jeffrey P.
Wittmann, Ph.D.
4. Each parent may attend the practices and games for the children's extra-
curricular activities without regard to the custodial schedule.
5. Custodial exchanges shall be done at curb-side, with the parent relinquishing
custody remaining in their residence, and the parent receiving custody remaining in the
vehicle. In order to establish a no-conflict zone for the children, the parents shall not have
discussions between themselves at the time of the custodial exchange. Neither shall the
children be used as messengers between the parents.
6. The summer schedule set forth in Paragraph 5 of the August 26, 2005 Order
shall end on the Friday before school commences each year. The summer schedule
specified in Paragraph 5 of the August 26, 2005 Order shall commence with the Friday that
school is dismissed or the first Friday thereafter, if school is not dismissed on a Friday. The
Friday following the commencement of school commences the school year's alternating
weekend schedule with the parent who did not have custody of the children the previous
weekend. The Court recognizes that this may mean that Father has custody the weekend
i; k 1
6 a)1-A
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
before school is dismissed in June and may commence his two custodial weeks during the
summer the Friday after school is dismissed.
brief pr jhearing zonfere ce with th Court s all
yumteimony er Fat er shourbe req red to ve couns I for purses
e of trial. T s pre-hVaring Is s eduled im Cou
t tim
berl nd Cour4fv y Court ouse, o the day
.
o' ock Al. ,d -7
be held n the iss>e of _
of taki, g the chit ren's /- 5B
rtroom umber 2f the
')606, at
8. A hearing on Father's August 31, 2006, Petition for Contempt and on Father's
Petition for Modification of Custody is schedule in Courtr om Number 2 of the Cumberland
County Courthouse, on the _ day of Cro 2006, at g
o'clock _&LM., at which time testimony will be taken. For the purposes of the hearing, the
Father, David B. Shatto, shall be deemed to be the moving party and shall proceed initially
with testimony. Counsel for the parties or the parties pro se shall file with the Court and
opposing counsel/party a memorandum setting forth each party's position on custody, a list
of witnesses who are expected to testify at the hearing, and a summary of the anticipated
testimony of each witness. These memoranda shall be filed at least ten days prior to the
hearing date. Father's memoranda, exhibits and witness list shall be filed twenty days prior /
to hearing, with a copy to Mother's counsel. Mother's memoranda, exhibits and witne s tC.I.
t C Joj
shall b filed ten ays prior to rhearing ands rved upon Father. The CNi18ren Nci. brook + o 4' %t We ar kr%5 ,+nd? p t.?e 9+; on C ? t o c?nar?? LS w'%A)N O U- fl:A Y P(y,r a r\?- present.
9. The parties shall paDrticipate in therapeutic family counseling to establish basic
parental dialogue and communication regarding the well being of the children, medical and
educational issues. To the extent that there are unreimbursed medical expenses
associated with this counseling, the unreimbursed cost shall be shared based on a pro-rata
net formula similar to that used by the Domestic Relations Section in the parties' support
matter. The parties' contribution shall be based on their pro-rated contribution to the net
family income.
10. While the custodial scheduled previously provided by this Court is modifiable,
it is modifiable only upon the mutual consent of the parties or pursuant to Order of Court.
Accordingly, if the parties agree to modify the Order, they should confirm their agreement in
writing, which may also be done by e-mail.
BY THE COURT:
r
1,51
Ed or B. Bayley, P.J.
Dist: Joanne Harrison Clough, Esquire, 24 N. 32nd Street, Camp Hill, PA 17011
David B. Shatto, 133 Oaklea Road, Harrisburg, PA 17110
TK,I' w C01F,Y Fr}"'E?; ?' " I
4
in T 11" -)ily 1.`1, -- n')Y n
and he seal o'. S Pa.
T, .02.x! dp i)I .. 1
protharto ry
6F-C 3
3 / G
DAVID B. SHATTO, : IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PEhlNSYLVANIA
Plaintiff :
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
V. CIVIL ACTION - LAIN
VICKI J. SHATTO, IN CUSTODY
Defendant :
CUSTODY CONCILIATION SUMMARY REPORT
IN ACCORDANCE WITH CUMBERLAND COUNTY RULE OF CIVIL PROCEDURE
1915.3-8, the undersigned Custody Conciliator submits the following report:
1. The pertinent information concerning the child who is the subject of this
litigation is as follows:
NAME DATE OF BIRTH CURRENTLY IN THE CUSTODY OF
Emma Jo Shatto February 28, 1995 Mother
Laura Jo Shatto September 12, 1996 Mother
2. Father filed a Petition for Modification of Custody on June 16, 2006. A
Custody Conciliation Conference was scheduled for August 11, 2006. The continuance was
granted to September 1, 2006 due to a vacation conflict for Mother's counsel. Present for
the conference were: the Mother, Vicki J. Shatto, and her new counsel, Joanne Harrison
Clough, Esquire; the Father, David B. Shatto, who participated pro se.
3. The last Order entered in this matter was August 26, 2005. This Order was
entered following hearing.
4. Father filed a Petition to Contempt on August 31, 2006. This Petition was first
served on Mother and her counsel at the Custody Conciliation Conference of September 1,
2006. Accordingly, Mother and her counsel were not prepared initially to address the
allegations without some time to review the document, which was also provided to the
Conciliator.
5. Father's position on custody is as follows: Father thinks that he should have
primary physical custody and Mother should only have contact with the children on
alternating weekends. Because this matter was heard approximately nine months prior to
the filing of the Petition for Modification, Father was asked to provide information regarding
any changes that may have occurred since this hearing had been held, in which new
developments might support his seeking of primary custody. Since the hearing, Father
-7748 CIVIL TERM
NO. 0?
reports that Mother's boyfriend has moved into the home. He further alleges that Mother
has been violating the Order with regard to her failure to share legal custody responsibilities,
failing to follow the physical custody schedule, and with regard to telephone contact. Father
reports that during the third marking period of last school year one of the children's report
cards reflected a drop in grades. The report card shoed improvement during the fourth
marking period. Father takes credit for this improvement in the grades because it was at
that time that he threatened to take legal action against Mother as a result of the lowered
grades. The Conciliator reviewed the report cards at the conference and found that neither
child had a grade lower than C and there were some grades that had changed from A's to
C's during the school year.
Father also expressed concern for the physical safety of the children based on
Mother's boyfriend's being the cause of the children being exposed to second hand smoke.
He further alleges that there is a negative psychological environment because of the yelling,
arguments and profanity between Mother and her boyfriend. Father alleges that as a result
of these disputes, the children stay in their bedroom for hours at a time. Father complains
that the children are reporting to him that the boyfriend refers to him as a "crook." Father
also objects to the children being exposed to fire arms. Father reports that there is
brainwashing of these young girls and complains that they are permitted to use fire arms
without protective equipment and that the fire arms are unsecured on the wail in Mother's
residence. Father reports that there is no communication from Mother when he has e-
mailed her with concerns about the children.
Father reports that Mother's residence is unstable. In support of this assertion, he
cites a time when she was considering moving to Duncannon, which would require the
children to attend what he regards as an inferior school district (Susquenita School District).
Father would prefer that the children go to Susquehanna Township School District.
Father has numerous other concerns: lack of communication with Mother; the bike
helmet at Mother's house doesn't fit one of the children; alleged isolation of the children
because of unsatisfactory telephone contact; Mother not providing the name of the soccer
coach; Mother's financial instability; Mother not giving vital information regarding medical
issues and medication; Mother objecting to Father's going out of town on business and
leaving the children with his brother during his custodial weekends; isolating the children
from his family; Mother sending messages with the children rather than communicating
directly with him and Mother not sending clothing for Father's custodial time.
With regard to the Contempt Petition, Father reports that Mother unilaterally extended
her vacation week in August. Father acknowledges that Mother attempted to send a text
message to him regarding the extension of the weekend but reports that the text messages
did not go through and as a result, he could not figure out what she was sending messages
about. Accordingly, Father did not consent to Mother extending her vacation week. Father
acknowledges that Mother later gave him make-up time on the weekend immediately
following her vacation week.
kA- 4
5A
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
The parties subsequently had a dispute about when they were to make the shift
between the summer schedule and the school year schedule. Father agreed to consolidate
his Petition for Contempt be heard at the same time as his Petition to Modify the Custody
Order.
6. Mother's position on custody is as follows: Mother objects to the transfer of
primary custody to Father. She acknowledges that the parties have significant amounts of
debt which have not been resolved in the context of their pending divorce proceeding.
Accordingly, she may not be able to remain in the Cumberland Valley School District
because she may not be able to afford housing there. Hence, she was considering moving
to a more affordable community. However, she is not planning to move out of the
Cumberland Valley School District during the present school year.
Mother acknowledges that her boyfriend smokes but says that he does not do so in
the house. She also acknowledges that the boyfriends smells of smoke when he comes
into the home and that the girls complain about it, especially when he gets in the car.
Mother alleges that the Petition filed by Father is due to his desire to reduce his child
support obligation. With regard to the lack of clothing going back and forth between the
homes, Mother reports that the younger child was embarrassed by having to take
belongings back and forth between her parents' homes, so Mother and Father established
separate wardrobes to reduce the child's embarrassment.
Mother acknowledges that she tried to contact Father via text messaging on a cell
phone to address the issue of extending her vacation. She indicated that she did not know
that the text messages had not gone through and points out that Father had make-up time
on the weekend of August 18, 2006 through August 20, 2006.
Mother acknowledges that she and Father do not communicate well and that she
does not open his e-mail, partially because of the content. Rather than deal with the
conflict, it seems that she does not open the e-mail at all. Mother describes some of
Father's e-mails as hurtful, attacking, insulting, and lengthy. Mother further acknowledges
that she has withheld the children's cell phone access as a disciplinary measure, at times.
Mother also points out that Father failed to put her on the emergency contact list when the
children were attending the Y Day Camp this summer.
Mother is willing to provide Father with information regarding the soccer schedule,
and points out that some of the information that she had obtained about the soccer
schedule had changed after she received it, making it inaccurate for Father to use.
7. Pre-hearing issues. After hearing Father's list of concerns, Mother's counsel
asked that the Court address a pre-hearing issue with regard to the children's testimony.
Mother's counsel stated that it appears that significant parts of the testimony that Father
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM o 0
would be providing would be coming directly from the children. So that the children not be
subject to direct or cross-examination by Father, who is pro se, against their Mother,
Mother's counsel requests that Father be required to have counsel for the period of time the
children testify.
8. The Conciliator was able to obtain agreement from the parties that they would
communicate basic factual information via e-mails regarding the children's schedule,
medical issues and school issues. This e-mail would not include issues related to finances
or the divorce. The Conciliator also clarified for the parties that no revisions to the schedule
would be made in a unilateral fashion, and that given the non-reliability of text messaging,
the parties should discontinue reliance upon this practice. It is also recommended that each
parent be permitted to attend the children's sport practices without regard to the nature of
the custodial schedule, and that the parties read Custody Chaos, Personal Peace by Jeffrey
P. Wittmann, Ph.D, who was the co-founder of the acclaimed "Kids First After Divorce"
program.
It is noted that these parties are experiencing significant lack of communications and
conflict regarding the parenting of their children. It is clear that there is a need for
therapeutic family counseling even to establish the most basic of parental dialogue. If this is
not done, it is unlikely that the circumstances for these children would improve no matter
what the Court would decide regarding the custodial schedule, as the underlying parental
problem would remain unchanged. The Conciliator also recomended a guideline for the
establishment of the beginning of the school year schedule, as contrasted with the summer
schedule.
The parties have agreed to a curbside custodial exchange, with no discussion of
adult issues at the time of the exchange, with the parent relinquishing custody remaining in
their residence at the time of the custodial exchange. It is further recommended that pre-
trial memos, exhibits and witness lists be provided twenty (20) days in advance of trial by
Father, and ten (10) days in advance of trial by Mother.
Date
Melissa Peel Greevy, Esquire
Custody Conciliator /
:283070
DAVID B. SHATTO IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
V.
VICKI J. SHATTO 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
ORDER OF COURT
AND NOW, this :?& day of December, 2006, following a hearing,
IT IS ORDERED:
(1) The petition of David B. Shatto to hold Vicki J. Shatto in contempt of a
custody order of August 26, 2005, IS DISMISSED.
(2) The petition of David B. Shatto to modify the custody order of August 26,
2005, by awarding him primary physical custody of Emma Jo Shatto, born February 28,
1995, and Laura Jo Shatto, born September 12, 1996, IS DENIED.'
By the Cour
Edgar B. Bay
David B. Shatto, Pro se
133 Oaklea Drive
Harrisburg, PA 17110
Joanne Clough, Esquire
For Vicki Shatto :sal
J. 4-1,",
' Emma and Laura have thrived under the current order in which they are in the
primary physical custody of their mother. The father's difficulties in
communicating with the mother regarding their shared legal custody is to a great
extent self-inflicted by his suffocating communications and the way in which he
demeans her. Those difficulties do not warrant modifying the physical custody
arrangement for Emma and Laura. The parents should undertake co-parenting
counseling with a positive attitude to improve their discourse regarding their
children.
FiLr=L?_40 =F !C' E'
-AP
201oFE _3 19 F1 10; : 01
LAW OFFICES OF DILS & DILS
DIANE M. DILS, ESQUIRE
Attorney I.D. No. 71873
1400 North Second Street, First Floor, Front
Harrisburg, PA 17102
Telephone No. (717) 232-9724
Attorney for Defendant, Vicki J. Shatto
DAVID B. SHATTO, : IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS
Plaintiff : CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
vs NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
VICKI J. SHATTO, CIVIL ACTION -LAW
Defendant IN CUSTODY
PETITION FOR EMERGENCY RELIEF
AND NOW this day of February, 2010 comes the above named
Defendant, Vicki J. Shatto, by her attorney, Diane M. Dils, Esquire, and
respectfully avers the following:
1. Your Petitioner, Vicki J. Shatto, is an adult individual currently residing
at 1112 Cross Creek Drive, Mechanicsburg, Cumberland County,
Pennsylvania 17050.
2. The Respondent, the Plaintiff above named, David B. Shatto, is an adult
individual currently residing at 133 Oaklea Drive, Harrisburg, Dauphin
County, Pennsylvania 17011.
3. Attached hereto and marked Exhibit "A" is a copy of an Order of Court
entered August 26, 2005 setting forth the current custodial arrangement
of the parties' two minor children, Emma Jo Shatto, born February 28,
1995 and Laura Jo Shatto, born September 12, 1996.
4. The Respondent, David B. Shatto, had visitation commencing Friday,
February 12, 2010 for his alternating weekend partial custodial periods
from Friday after school until Monday morning before school.
5. On Monday, February 15, 2010, the minor children did not have school
as a result of the President's Day holiday.
6. Mother had plans to pick the children up at approximately 10:00 a.m. on
Monday, February 15, 2010; however, her daughter, Laura, called and
requested if they could stay until noon. Mother agreed.
7. Mother appeared at the home of the Father on Monday, February 15,
2010 at approximately 12:10 p.m.; however, the children refused to go
with the Mother.
8. Father refused to turn the minor children over to the Mother.
9. Father refused to turn the minor children over to the Mother since
Monday, February 15, 2010, and Mother has been denied her primary
physical custody of her children since Monday, February 15, 2010.
10. Mother requested the assistance of the Susquehanna Township Police in
an attempt to gain custody of her children on Monday, February 15, 2010
and the police contacted the Father; however, because the police did not
find an urgent situation at the home of Father, they were unable to
enforce the Order requiring Father to return the children to Mother.
11. The minor children attend the Cumberland Valley School District and are
both on the Honor Roll and are doing well in the primary physical
custody of their Mother.
12. Attached hereto and marked Exhibit "B" is a copy of an Order dated
December 28, 2006 wherein His Honor, The Honorable Edgar B. Bayley
had denied Father's request for a contempt holding against Mother.
13. Father has refused to contact Mother and speak with her whatsoever
regarding his retention of the minor children.
14. Father is in violation of the Order of Court entered August 26, 2005 in
that he has refused and failed to return the minor children to Mother on
Monday, February 15, 2010 pursuant to the Court Order.
15. It is respectfully requested that the minor children be returned to Mother
immediately pursuant to the Order of Court and that the Father be
permitted supervised visitation with his children until such time as this
matter may be heard before Your Honorable Court.
16. Father has willfully and wantonly for no just reason cause retained
custody of the minor children in direct violation of the Order of Court
entered August 26, 2005.
17. Mother will be required to expend the total fees of $4,500.00
representing counsel fees and costs in connection with the filing of a
Petition for Contempt and Modification of the Order as well as this
Petition for Emergency Relief.
18. It is respectfully requested that Father be held in Contempt of the Order
dated August 26, 2005 and that he be required to pay Mother's counsel
fees in the amount of $4,500.00.
19. Mother appeared at the schools of her children and retrieved them from
school on Wednesday, February 17, 2010; however, it is felt that Father
will attempt to retain the children again at the time of his next scheduled
custodial period on Tuesday, February 23, 2010
WI-fEREFORE, Mother respectfully prays your Honorable Court to Order the
retention of custody of the minor children in Mother, to limit the Father's contact
with the minor children to supervised visits utilizing the YWCA Visitation Center
until this matter may be heard by Your Honorable Court.
Respectfully submitted,
BY
Diane M. Dils, Esquire
1400 North Second Street
Harrisburg, PA 17102
(717) 232-9724
I.D. No. 71873
? i ? • 7r,? i ? -i-?., _
11:c--f I' I<UI'I:I'IWIV '?- x 4
2005 (PRI ) 00 26 COUnTB ?•??
DAVID B. SHATT0, IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
PLAINTIFF CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVi',MF,
V.
VICKI J, SHATTO,
DEFENDANT 05-174th CIVIL TERM
ORDER OF COURT
AND NOW, this ?2t 45 -_rjay of Augus;, 2005, following a heai'ina or
the merits, IT I$ OF MERED:
(1) All prior custody orders are va.nted and replaced wltn f)16 oraer
(2) David B. Shatto and Vicki J. Shatto shall have shared Iegal custody of .re,-
daughters Emma Jo Shatto, born February 2C',, 1995, and LaLlra Jo Shatto, born
September 12, 1996.
(') The mother shall have primary physical custody o(Emrna and LGI. ra Tre
children shall attend schoo.l from the rnoN-Wr' re,>idence as she E)rrangee,
(4) During the school year, the fali'rcr shall Drava temporr.wy physical custody of
Emma and Laura'.
(a) Every other Friday from after school until Monday horning ueior e
vchoo1,
(b) On the Tuesday following the next wce1(e;nc1 from aftci schoo' _;rr,r ??,e
Wednesday ITlorning before school.
(5) During each summer school vacatiun pefic)d, tyre ft-ithe)r F,hiuli NGvr i_mrns air-
Laura for the first two weeks, the moihcir far Ric, ne>ct two weeks, and the lather fcr the
next four weeks. Then the parenls -frail allernale wock-, until the hHginning c;( lne
school year,
n!'o. 26. 2005 (FBI) 08:26 COUR78
(6) HOLIDAYS
AND SPECIAL DAYS
Easter Day
Memorlal Day
Labor Day
Thanksgiving I" Half
Thanks.giving 2nd Half
Christmas 1°1 Half
Christmas 2nd Half
Mother's Day
I clther's Day
TIMES EVEN ODD
YEARS YEARS
From 5 p.m. Me evening before Mother ra,t'ne
the holida,/ to 6 p.m, the defy of
of the holl jay
From 6 p,m, the evening before Father
the holida,i to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
From 8 p.rn, the evening before Father lv co -er
the holida\, to 6 p.m, the day of
of the holiday
From 6 p.ri. the evenir)g before Mother na.
Thanksglvog Day to 3 p.m. on
Thanksgivi ig Day
From 3 p.m. on Thanksgiving Father lvt0!-,,c,
Day to 6 p, n. the day after
Thanksgiving Day
From 9 s,ni, on 12/24 to 3 p.m. Fatner 6,
on 12/25
From 3 p,ri. on 12/25 to 6 p,m, Mother Fa[rl
on '12/26
From 6 p.rr. the evening before Mother
the holiday to 6 p.m, the day of
of the holidiiy
From 6 p.rr, the evening before Fjtner =
the holiday to 6 p.rn ±1h6 day of
of the holid?-iy
i-
DAVID B. SHATTO IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
V.
VICKI J. SHATTO 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
ORDER OF COURT
AND NOW, this _? day of December, 2006, following a hearing,
IT IS ORDERED:
(1) The petition of David B. Shatto to hold Vicki J. Shatto in contempt of a
custody order of August 26, 2005, IS DISMISSED.
(2) The petition of David B. Shatto to modify the custody order of August 26,
2005, by awarding him primary physical custody of Emma Jo Shatto, born February 28,
1995, and Laura Jo Shatto, born September 12, 1996, IS DENIED.'
By the Court
.Z'avid B. Shatto, Pro se
133 Oaklea Drive
Harrisburg, PA 17110
Joanne Clough, Esquire
For Vicki Shatto
Edgar B. Bayl
sat
Y, J. t
Emma and Laura have thrived under the current order in which they are in the
primary physical custody of their mother. The father's difficulties in
communicating with the mother regarding their shared legal custody is to a great
extent self-inflicted by his suffocating communications and the way in which he
demeans her, Those difficulties do not warrant modifying the physical custody
arrangement for Emma and Laura. The parents should undertake co-parenting
counseling with a positive attitude to improve their discourse regarding their
children.
VERIFICATION
I verify that the statements made in this PETITION FOR
MODIFICATION OF ORDER, ?^;I)
FOR EMERGENCY RELIEF
are true and correct. I understand that false statements herein are
made subject to the penalties of 18 PA. C.S. Section 4904 relatint) to
unsworn falsification to authorities.
VICKI J. SHATTO
Date: l ??? l7??1
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
I, Diane M. Dils, Esquire, hereby certify that a true and correct copy of the
within Petition for Emergency Relief has been served upon the following
individual, by first class, United States mail, postage prepaid, Certified Mail,
Article No. 7008 3230 0000 3417 8561, by placing a copy of the same at the post
office in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, on this day of .,ems , 2010
addressed as follows:
David B. Shatto
133 Oaklea Drive
Harrisburg, PA 17011
Respectfully submitted,
BY:
1400 North Second Street
First Floor, Front
Harrisburg, PA 17102
(717) 232-9724
I.D. No. 71873
-4. 0
'--? Date.
r
2L I D? FEv s 9 P i i "• 0.
0 _,.
LAW OFFICES OF DILS & DILS
DIANE M. DILS, ESQUIRE
Attorney I.D. No. 71873
1400 North Second Street, First Floor, Front
Harrisburg, PA 17102
Telephone No. (717) 232-9724
Attorney for Defendant, Vicki J. Shatto
DAVID B. SHATTO,
Plaintiff/Respondent
vs
VICKI J. SHATTO,
Defendant/Petitioner
: IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS
: CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
: CIVIL ACTION -LAW
: IN CUSTODY
PETITION FOR CONTEMPT AND MODIFICATION OF ORDER
AND NOW this l 0 day of February, 2010 comes the above named
Defendant/Petitioner, Vicki J. Shatto, by her attorney, Diane M. Dils, Esquire, and
respectfully avers the following:
1. Your Petitioner, Vicki J. Shatto, is an adult individual currently residing
at 1112 Cross Creek Drive, Mechanicsburg, Cumberland County,
Pennsylvania 17050.
2. The Respondent, the Plaintiff above named, David B. Shatto, is an adult
individual currently residing at 133 Oaklea Drive, Harrisburg, Dauphin
County, Pennsylvania 17011.
s70,0() PA,'#7
ci_4 35S
Q? ?-3? kl y
3. Attached hereto and marked Exhibit "A" is a copy of an Order of Court
entered August 26, 2005 setting forth the current custodial arrangement
of the parties' two minor children, Emma Jo Shatto, born February 28,
1995 and Laura Jo Shatto, born September 12, 1996.
4. The Respondent, David B. Shatto, had visitation commencing Friday,
February 12, 2010 for his alternating weekend partial custodial periods
from Friday after school until Monday morning before school.
5. On Monday, February 15, 2010, the minor children did not have school
as a result of the President's Day holiday.
6. Mother had plans to pick the children up at approximately 10:00 a.m. on
Monday, February 15, 2010; however, her daughter, Laura, called and
requested if they could stay until noon. Mother agreed.
7. Mother appeared at the home of the Father on Monday, February 15,
2010 at approximately 12:10 p.m.; however, the children refused to go
with the Mother.
8. Father refused to turn the minor children over to the Mother.
9. Father refused to turn the minor children over to the Mother since
Monday, February 15, 2010, and Mother has been denied her primary
physical custody of her children since Monday, February 15, 2010.
10. Mother requested the assistance of the Susquehanna Township Police in
an attempt to gain custody of her children on Monday, February 15, 2010
and the police contacted the Father; however, because the police did not
find an urgent situation at the home of Father, they were unable to
enforce the Order requiring Father to return the children to Mother.
11. The minor children attend the Cumberland Valley School District and are
both on the Honor Roll and are doing well in the primary physical
custody of their Mother.
12. Attached hereto and marked Exhibit "B" is a copy of an Order dated
December 28, 2006 wherein His Honor, The Honorable Edgar B. Bayley
had denied Father's request for a contempt holding against Mother.
13. Father has refused to contact Mother and speak with her whatsoever
regarding his retention of the minor children.
14. Father is in violation of the Order of Court entered August 26, 2005 in
that he has refused and failed to return the minor children to Mother on
Monday, February 15, 2010 pursuant to the Court Order.
15. It is respectfully requested that the minor children be returned to Mother
immediately pursuant to the Order of Court and that the Father be
permitted supervised visitation with his children until such time as this
matter may be heard before Your Honorable Court.
16. Father has willfully and wantonly for no just cause retained custody of
the minor children in direct violation of the Order of Court entered
August 26, 2005.
17. Mother will be required to expend the total fees of $4,500.00
representing counsel fees and costs in connection with the filing of this
Petition for Contempt and Modification of the Order as well as the
simultaneous filing of the Petition for Emergency Relief.
18. It is respectfully requested that Father be held in Contempt of the Order
dated August 26, 2005 and that he be required to pay Mother's counsel
fees in the amount of $4,500.00.
WHEREFORE, Mother respectfully prays your Honorable Court to Order the
Father to immediately return custody of the minor children to her and to limit the
Father's contact with the minor children to supervised visits utilizing the YWCA
Visitation Center until this matter may be heard by Your Honorable Court.
Respectfully submitted,
BY
101ane M. Dils, Esquire
1400 North Second Street
Harrisburg, PA 17102
(717) 232-9724
I.D. No. 71873
2005(FR1) 00;26 COURTS PAGE `
DAVID B, SHATTa, IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
PLAINTIFF CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
V.
VICKI J, SHATTO,
DEFENDANT 05-1740 CIVIL TERK/1
ORDER OF COUFET
AND NOW, this _12tof AuJust, 2,005, following a hearing on
the merits, IT IS ORDERED:
(1) All prior custody orders are va:iatad and replaced with this order.
(2) David B, Shatto and Vlcld J. Shatto shall have. shared legal custody of their
daughters Emma Jo Shatto, born February 28, 1995, and Laura Jo Snattc, born
September 12, 1996.
(S) The mother shall have primary, play 0fll custody of Emma and L@I.ira. 7hc
children shall attend schoo.l from the rrlotier's residence as she arranges,
(4) During the school year, the talher shall have temporary physical custody of
Emma and Laura;
(a) Every other Friday from after school until Monday morning before
school,
(b) On the Tuesday following the next weekend from after school until the
Wednesday IYlorning before school.
(5) During each summer school ?a.catior) f>F riod, the father ?,herll have Emma and
Laura for the first two weeks, the mother for tllc ne>ct two weeks, and the lather for the
next four weeks, Then the parents shall alternate weeks until the beginning of the.
school year.
,:, ._.VV? I'I\U, I. 141V I
l?
t
AUG 26.2005(FRI) 00:26 COURTS
PACE
(6) HOLIDAYS
AND SPECIAL DAYS
Easter Day
Memorial Day
Labor Day
Thanksgiving 1" Half
Thanksgiving 2nd Half
Christmas 1" Half
Christmas 2"d Half
Mother's Day
Father's Day
TIME6 EVEN ODD
YEARS YEARS
From 5 p,in, the evening before Mother Father
the holida,/ to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
From 6 p.m. the evening before Father Mother
the holidFa,/ to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
From 8 p.r,). the evening before Father Mother
the holida?, to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holiday
Frbm 6 p.m. the evening before Mother Father
Thanksgiving Day to 3 p.m, on
Thanksgivi ig Day
From 3 p.m. on Thanksgiving Father Mather
Day to 6 p, T). the day after
Thanksgiving Day
From 9 @,m, on 12/24 to 3 p.m, Father Moth6r
on 12/25
From 3 p,ri. on 12125 to 6 p,m. Mother Father
on '12126
From 6 p.m. the evening before Mother Bother
the holiday to 6 p.m. the day of
of the holidiiy
From 6 p.rr, the evening before Father Father
the holiday to 6 p,m. the day of
of the holld-.ty
By th
Edgar B. Bayley, J,
DAVID B. SHATTO IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
V.
VICKI J. SHATTO 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
ORDER OF COURT
AND NOW, this day of December, 2006, following a hearing,
IT IS ORDERED:
(1) The petition of David B. Shatto to hold Vicki J. Shatto in contempt of a
custody order of August 26, 2005, IS DISMISSED.
(2) The petition of David B, Shatto to modify the custody order of August 26,
2005, by awarding him primary physical custody of Emma Jo Shatto, born February 28,
1995, and Laura Jo Shatto, born September 12, 1996, IS DENIED.'
By the Cou
.X(aavid B. Shatto, Pro se
133 Oaklea Drive
Harrisburg, PA 17110
Joanne Clough, Esquire
For Vicki Shatto
Edgar B. Bay
sal
' Emma and Laura have thrived under the current order in which they are in the
primary physical custody of their mother. The father's difficulties in
communicating with the mother regarding their shared legal custody is to a great
extent self-inflicted by his suffocating communications and the way in which he
demeans her. Those difficulties do not warrant modifying the physical custody
arrangement for Emma and Laura. The parents should undertake co-parenting
counseling with a positive attitude to improve their discourse regarding their
children.
VERIFICATION
I verify that the statements made in this CONTEMPT PETITION FOR MODIFICATION OF ORDER AND PETITION
FOR EMERGENCY RELIEF
are true and correct. I understand that false statements herein are
made subject to the penalties of 18 PA. C.S. Section 4904 relating to
unsworn falsification to authorities.
r?
VICKI J. SHATTO
Date: Q %
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
I, Diane M. Dils, Esquire, hereby certify that a true and correct copy of the
within Petition for Contempt and Modification of Order has been served upon the
following individual, by first class, United States mail, postage prepaid, Certified
Mail, Article No. 7008 3230 0000 3417 8561, by placing a copy of the same at the
post office in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, on this / day of ,
1
2010 addressed as follows:
David B. Shatto
133 Oaklea Drive
Harrisburg, PA 17011
Diane M. ails, Esquire
1400 North Second Street
First Floor, Front
Harrisburg, PA 17102
(717) 232-9724
I.D. No. 71873
Date:??% ???
Respectfully submitted,
V
Fps ?? zidu G} 3
?. ? r,
c? ;7
,_. "ZI
`i
LAW OFFICES OF DILS & DILS
DIANE M. DILS, ESQUIRE
Attorney I.D. No. 71873
1400 North Second Street, First Floor, Front
Harrisburg, PA 17102
Telephone No. (717) 232-9724
Attorney for Defendant, Vicki J. Shatto
DAVID B. SHATTO, : IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS
Plaintiff/ : CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
vs : NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
VICKI J. SHATTO, : CIVIL ACTION -LAW
Defendant : IN CUSTODY
ORDER OF COURT
AND NOW, a jlr of 2010, Y f Ei?/LLcAIL , upon presentation
and consideration of the within Petition for Emergency Relief, it is hereby
ORDERED that the
"Inew _"
eniel +e h"Irl hall nrr t th Vw!'d V. e EC1f[C1 all-is rg,
BY T OUR .
BY:
J.
Distribution on Next Page:
Distribution:
avid B. Shatto133 Oaklea Drive, Harrisburg, PA 17011
/ISiane M. Dils, Esquire, 1400 N. 2nd St., Harrisburg, PA 17102
co"o I 2S /YL "Lc
a/;o Igo
t::T-4?
5
0
DAVID B. SHATTO IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
PLAINTIFF CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
V.
VICKI J. SHATTO
DFTFNDANT
2005-1748 CIVIL ACTION LAW
IN CUSTODY
ORDER OF COURT
AND NOW, Tuesday,_Februa? 23, 2010 upon consideration of the attached Complaint,
it is hereby directed that parties and their respective counsel appear before Dawn S. Sunday, Esq. the conciliator,
at 39 West Main Street, Mechanicsburg, PA 17055 on _ _Thursday, March 25, 2010 at 10:30 AM
for a Pre-Hearing Custody Conference. At such conference, an effort will be made to resolve the issues in dispute; or
if this cannot be accomplished, to define and narrow the issues to be heard by the court, and to enter into a temporary
order. Failure to appear at the conference may provide grounds for entry ofa temporary or permanent order.
The court hereby directs the parties to furnish any and all existing Protection from Abuse orders,
Special Relief orders, and Custody orders to the conciliator 48 hours prior to scheduled hearing.
FOR THE COURT.
By: /s/ Dawn S. Sunda Es .
Custody Conciliator
I P,
The Court of Common Pleas of Cumberland County is required by law to comply with the Americans
with Disabilites Act of 1990. For information about accessible facilities and reasonable accommodations
available to disabled individuals having business before the court, please contact our office, All arrangements
must be made at least 72 hours prior to any hearing or business before the court. You must attend the scheduled
conference or hearing.
YOU SHOULD TAKE THIS PAPER TO YOUR ATTORNEY AT ONCE. IF YOU DO NOT
HAVE AN ATTORNEY OR CANNOT AFFORD ONE, GO TO OR TELEPHONE THE OFFICE SET
FORTI I BELOW TO FIND OUT WHERE YOU CAN GET LEGAL HELP.
Cumberland County Bar Association
32 South Bedford Street
Carlisle, Pennsylvania 17013
Telephone (717) 249-3166
20(0 FEB 2s Ft 3, 4 ?
z
DAVID B. SHATTO IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
PLAINTIFF CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
V.
VICKI J. SHATTO
2005-1748 CIVIL ACTION LAW
IN CUSTODY
DEFENDANT
ORDER OF COURT
AND NOW, Tuesday, February 23, 2010 upon consideration of the attached Complaint,
it is hereby directed that parties and their respective counsel appear before Dawn S. Sunday, Esq. the conciliator,
at 39 West Main Street, Mechanicsburg PA 17055 on Thursday, March 25, 2010 at 10:30 AM
for a Pre-Hearing Custody Conference. At such conference, an effort will be made to resolve the issues in dispute; or
if this cannot be accomplished, to define and narrow the issues to be heard by the court, and to enter into a temporary
order. Failure to appear at the conference may provide grounds for entry of a temporary or permanent order.
The court hereby directs the parties to furnish any and all existing Protection from Abuse orders,
Special Relief orders, and Custody orders to the conciliator 48 hours prior to scheduled hearing.
FOR THE COURT,
By: /s/ Dawn S. Sunda Es q. _ 'Ae
Custody Conciliator
The Court of Common Pleas of Cumberland County is required by law to comply with the Americans
with Disabilites Act of 1990. For information about accessible facilities and reasonable accommodations
available to disabled individuals having business before the court, please contact our office. All arrangements
must be made at least 72 hours prior to any hearing or business before the court. You must attend the scheduled
conference or hearing.
YOU SHOULD "TAKE THIS PAPER TO YOUR ATTORNEY AT ONCE. IF YOU DO NOT
HAVE AN ATTORNEY OR CANNOT AFFORD ONE, GO TO OR TELEPHONE THE OFFICE SET
FORTH BELOW TO FIND OUT WHERE YOU CAN GET LEGAL HELP.
Cumberland County Bar Association
32 South Bedford Street
Carlisle, Pennsylvania 17013
Telephone (717) 249-3166
FII?; { d `
.. ?iN pp r ? rr `.11
21i F E 8 2 Pia
c:
?`' L7,
DAVID B. SHATTO
Plaintiff
VS.
VICKI J. SHATTO
MAR 2 2 ?wu
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
2005-1748 CIVIL ACTION LAW
IN CUSTODY
Defendant
ORDER OF COURT
AND NOW, this
consideration of the attached
1. The Mother's Petitic
the Mother's Petition for Eme
the hearing currently schedule(
se shall file with the Court and
custody, a list of witnesses wh,
of each witness. These Memo
se prior to the hearing date.
2. Pending the hearing,
in effect.
da of /' (?
y , 2010, upon
ody Conciliation Report, it is ordered and directed as follows:
i for Contempt and Modification shall be addressed at the same time as
;ency Relief and the Father's Emergency Petition for Modification at
for March 24, 2010 at 9:15 a.m. Counsel for the parties or a party pro
)pposing counsel a Memorandum setting forth each party's position on
will testify at the hearing and a summary of the anticipated testimony
anda shall be filed with the Court and opposing counsel or a party pro
further Order of Court, the prior Orders of this Court shall continue
BY E COUR
?- ,
of
Edward E. Guido J.
cc: ? Piane M. Dils, Esquire -'Counsel for Mother
--*"David B. Shatto -Father Co i *es M;a4
17
DAVID B. SHATTO
Plaintiff
VS.
VICKI J. SHATTO
Defenda
Prior Judge: Edward E.
Gui?
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
2005-1748 CIVIL ACTION LAW
IN ACCORDANCE WITH CUMBERLAND COUNTY RULE OF CIVIL
PROCEDURE 1915.3-8, the undersigned Custody Conciliator submits the following report:
'I1. The pertinent information concerning the Children who are the subjects of this litigation is as
follows:
NAME DATE OF BIRTH CURRENTLY IN CUSTODY OF
Emma Shatto F bruary 28, 1995 Mother
Laura Shatto S ptember 12, 1996 Mother
2. A custody conciliation conference was held on March 16, 2010, with the following
individuals in attendance: the Father, David B. Shatto, who is not represented by counsel in this
matter, and the Mother, Vicki J. hatto, with her counsel, Diane M. Dils, Esquire.
3. There are several ple dings outstanding in this matter and the Court has scheduled a hearing
for March 24, 2010 on the M ther's Petition for Emergency Relief and the Father's Emergency
Petition for Modification. The other has also filed a Petition for Contempt and Modification. All of
the pleadings, however, are rela ed to the same factual circumstances as perceived differently by the
parties. The possibility of co-p enting counseling and/or an evaluation were discussed at length at the
conference. The Mother was a eeable to holding the petitions in abeyance pending counseling with
Dr. Shienvold and the Father ag ed to the counseling as well but only on the condition that there was
a change in the custody schedul pending completion of the counseling. Ultimately, the parties were
unable to reach an agreement at t e conference and it will be necessary to proceed with the hearing.
4. The Father's position n custody is as follows: The Father stated that the Children have told
him that they want to live with m exclusively due to domestic violence in the Mother's household
between the Mother and her boy riend, smoking around the Children in the Mother's household and
the Children's inability to have interaction with friends in the Mother's household. Although the
Mother adamantly denied all
Father stated that if he did no-
he would feel that he had bet
major problems in the Mothe
The Father indicated that the
adequately defend them fror
particularly the older Child, n
Father seeks primary physical
5. The Mother's positi
have a preference as to the cu
movies at certain times and of
not believe that the Father and
The Mother expressed concen
effort to encourage the Childre
adamantly denied that there ha
acknowledges that her boyfrie
reported that the youngest dau
The Mother believes that the r
the major disciplinarian and th
in the Father's custody. The
evenings when the Father and
(The Father indicated followij
two weekday evenings per w(
under which she has primary p
6 The conciliator reco
issues raised for hearing at the
f these allegations, the Father stated that he believes the Children. The
pursue the Children's desired preference on the custodial arrangements,
ayed their trust and loyalty. The Father believes that the source of the
's household is the Mother's boyfriend rather than the Mother herself.
:hildren love their Mother but do not believe that she would be able to
the boyfriend if necessary. According to the Father, the Children,
ports a high level of stress and conflict in the Mother's household. The
wtodv of the Children.
i on custody is as follows: The Mother believes that if the Children do
ody schedule it is due to her imposition of limits on dating, going to
:r activities she feels are inappropriate to their age. The Mother does
is girlfriend set similar limits on the Children's conduct at their house.
that the Father has not supported her parenting and has not made an
to return to her custody in accordance with the schedule. The Mother
been any domestic violence whatsoever in her household although she
i is very direct and demands respect from the Children. The Mother
iter has told her that she prefers to continue to reside with the Mother.
tin cause of the disruption to the schedule has occurred because she is
oldest daughter believes she will have fewer limits and more leniency
Bother expressed concern about the girls being left alone during the
tis girlfriend work with the girlfriend's sons who are ages 15 and 10.
the conference that his girlfriend's children are only in her custody
k.) The Mother seeks enforcement of the existing custody schedule
custody of the Children.
lends an Order in the form as attached scheduling all of the additional
isting hearing which has been scheduled for March 24, 2010.
Date Dawn S. Sunday, Esquire
Custody Conciliator
DAVID B. SHATTO, IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
Plaintiff CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
VS NO. 05-1748 CIVIL TERM
VICKI J. SHATTO, CIVIL ACTION - LAW
Defendant IN CUSTODY
ORDER OF COURT
AND NOW, this 24th day of March, 2010,
hearing on the Petitions for Modification of Custody is
continued to May 21, 2010, at 9:30 a.m. Pending said
hearing, the current custody order shall remain in full
force and effect with the following modifications:
1. The parties shall e-mail each other on a
daily basis to discuss some aspect of their children's
lives. The custodial parent shall initiate the e-mail, and
the noncustodial parent shall respond. The parties shall
also communicate with each other by e-mail with regard to
issues affecting their children. Copies of all e-mails
shall be saved and presented as an exhibit at the upcoming
hearing.
2. The custodial parent shall allow the
children unfettered access to phone contact with the
noncustodial parent.
3. Neither party shall allow smoking in the
home or in a vehicle when the children are present.
4. By agreement of the parties, the children
shall begin counselling with Riegler, Shienvold & Associates
w
i
as soon as practical. The purpose of the counselling is to
divine the children's wishes on the issue of custody and to
make a recommendation to this Court.
By the .Court
Edward E. Guido, J.
? J. Paul Helvy, Esquire
For the Plaintiff
Diane M. Dils, Esquire
For the Defendant
Court Administrator
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