HomeMy WebLinkAbout06-2407
AMY K. COOVER and
CHARLES E. COOVER
Plaintiff s
: IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
v.
CIVIL ACTION - LAW
Defendant
: NO. Ol..-,;?'io7
: IN CUSTODY
CIVIL TERM
Shalita Green
COMPLAINT IN CUSTODY
1. Plaintiffs, Amy Coover and Charles Coover, are adult individuals currently residing
at 117 Railroad Lane, Shippensburg, Pennsylvania, 17257.
2. Defendant, Shalita Green, is an adult individual currently residing at 1239 Spring
Garden Street, Philladelphia, Pennsylvania, 19123.
3. Defendant is the natural Mother of the child Anthony Saleem Young, Jr., born August
23,2004.
4. Plaintiffs have had physical custody of the child since August 24, 2004 and have
stood in loco parantis since that date.
5. The natural Father of the child is believed to be Anthony Young Sr., whose
whereabouts are unknown to the Plaintiffs.
6. The child was born out of wedlock.
The child has resided with the following people, at the following address, for the following
periods of time, since his birth:
NAME ADDRESS DATES
Amy Coover
Charles Coover
Matthew Coover
Rebekah Coover
Lydia Coover
Kumar Ramaiah
117 Railroad Lane
Shippensburg, P A 17257
August 24 to
Present
7. From August 24, 2004 to present, plaintiffs stand in loco parentis to the child and
they live as aforesaid with Anthony Saleem Young Jr.
8. Defendant is natural Mother of the child and the individuals with whom she resides
at her address are unknown to the Plaintiffs, as Mother is msiding in a type of half-
way house, operated by Genesis II Inc. at 1239 Spring Garden Street, Philadelphia,
Pennsylvania, since sometime in mid to late March 2006.
9. There are no prior actions for custody in this matter, except for an action initiated by
Nakita S. Green, the Defendant's sister, against Plaintiffs, which action is docketed at
No. 2005-4296 in the Court of Common Pleas, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania,
which action is now believed to have been withdrawn.
10. Plaintiffs have not participated as a party of witnesses or in any other capacity in
other litigation concerning custody of the child in this or any other Court, with the
exception of the action previously referenced, which had been initiated by Nakita S.
Green.
II. Plaintiffs have no information of a custody proceeding conc:erning the child, pending
in any Court of this Commonwealth, with the exception of the previously referenced
action, which is believed to have been withdrawn.
12. Each parent whose parental rights to the child have not been terminated and the
person who has physical custody of the child have been named as a party to this
action, with the exception of the natural father, whose whereabouts are unknown and
all other persons named below, who are meant to have or claim right to custody or
visitation of the child, will be given notice of the proceedings of this action and the
right to intervene: None
13. Plaintiffs do not know of any person, not a party to the proceedings, who claim to
have custody or visitation rights with respect to the child.
14. It is in the best interest and permanent welfare of the child to enter an Order providing
the Plaintiffs with primary physical and legal custody of the child.
WHEREFORE, Plaintiff requests your Honor of Court to schedule a hearing in this
matter to determine the custody of the child at issue.
tfully submi1ted,
ey . riffie Esquire
Attorney for Plaintiff's
Griffie & Associates
200 North Hanover Street
Carlisle, P A 17013
(717)243-5551
(800)347-5552
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MAY 0 3 Z006
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AMY K. COOVER and
CHARLES E. COOVER
Plaintiffs
: IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYL VANIA
Defendant
: CIVIL ACTION - LAW
: . .;15/0,7
: NO. t..:fp- ~ CIVIL TERM
: IN CUSTODY
v.
SHALITA GREEN
ORDER OF COURT
AND NOW this 3 ~ day of ~ ' 2006, upon consideration of the within
Complaint for Custody a hearing is scheduled on this matter for Friday, May 5, 2006 at I :30 p.m.
in Court Room No.4, Cumberland County Courthouse, Carlisle, Cumberland County
Pennsylvania.
Pending the hearing in this matter, Plaintiffs shall have primary physical and legal
custody of the child Anthony Saleem Young, Jr., born August 23, 2004.
BY THE COURT,
4d-
A HESS, JUDGE
/
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AMY K. COOVER and CHARLES
E. COOVER, Husband and Wife,
Plaintiffs
: IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
: CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
v.
: CIVIL ACTION - LAW
SHALITA GREEN
Defendant
: 2006 -2407
: IN CUSTODY
CIVIL TERM
PRELIMINARY OBJECTIONS OF DEFENDANT SHALITA GREEN
TO PLAINTIFF'S CUSTODY COMPLAINT
AND NOW this 5th day of May, 2006, comes Defendant SHALlTA GREEN, by and
through her attorneys, Irwin & McKnight, and makes the following Preliminary Objections to
Plaintiff's Complaint, and in support thereof avers the following:
I. Preliminary Objection for lack of subject matter jurisdiction and standing Pursuant
to Pa. R.Civ. P. 1028(a)(I).
1. Petitioners Amy K. Coover and Charles E. Coover filed a Custody Complaint on
or about April 28, 2006.
2. Normally, a third party may challenge the custodial rights of a parent only
through dependency proceedings. See B.A. v. E.E., 559 Pa. 545, 741 A.2d 1227, 1228 (1999).
3. If a third party is able to show in a dependency proceeding by clear and
convincing evidence that the child is not properly cared for, then that third party could intervene
in a custody proceeding. Id. at 1229.
4. Under this general rule, therefore, a court cannot confer standing upon third
parties to interfere with the natural parent-child relationship and the natural parent's prima facie
right to custody. Id.
2
5. An exception to this general rule on lack of standing is where third parties stand
in loco parentis. Id.
6. However, "a third party cannot place himself in loco parentis in defiance of the
parents' wishes and the parent/child relationship." Id., citing Gradwell v. Strausser, 416 Pa.
Super. 118, 610 A.2d 999, 1003 (1992). See also J.F. v. D.B., 2006 WL 1047113, ~ A.2d
~ (Pa. Super. 2006).
7. Furthermore, where the natural parent's parental rights have not been terminated
and there is not consent to an adoption by the natural parent, a third party does not have either in
loco parentis status or standing to challenge the natural parent's right to custody. T..T.B. v. E.c.,
438 Pa.Super. 529, 652 A.2d 936, 947-948 (1995).
8. Where a third party cannot make a claim for custody as against a natural parent, a
hearing is not even necessary to undertake the best interests of the child analysis. Id. at n.11.
9. Plaintiffs, as third parties, have already been found to lack in loco parentis status
m their attempt in the Orphans' Court of Cumberland County to involuntary terminate the
parental rights of Defendant.
10. Plaintiffs are therefore estopped from asserting in loco parentis status as against
natural mother in this new custody proceeding.
II. As in a termination proceeding, in loco parentis status in a custody proceeding
requires a finding of both the legal assumption of parental status and the discharge of parental
duties. T.R v. L.R.M., 753 A.2d 873, 882 (Pa. Super. 2000).
12. "In the area of child custody, principles of standing have been applied with
particular scrupulousness because they serve a dual purpose: not only to protect the interest of
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the court system by assuring that actions are litigated by appropriate parties, but also to prevent
intrusion into the protected domain of the family by those who are merely strangers, however
well-meaning. Thus in custody cases it has been held that an action may be brought only by a
person having a prima facie right to custody." Id.
13. Petitioners received only temporary custody of the minor child by virtue of a form
entitled "Temporary Custody" and signed by the natural mother, which specifically reserved the
right of the natural mother to withdraw the temporary arrangement at her desire or upon her
release.
14. Plaintiffs have previously acknowledged that they understood the arrangement to
be temporary and that they were participating in a prison ministry program that assisted mothers
during incarceration in the Philadelphia County prison system.
15. Plaintiffs do not stand in loco parentis to the minor child because the natural
mother never intended to permanently place her son with the Petitioners.
16. By refusing to turn over Anthony as consistently requested by Defendant and her
agents and representatives since April 2005, Plaintiffs have unlawfully attempted to place
themselves in loco parentis to the child in defiance of the natural mother's wishes.
17. The temporary custody form signed by Defendant is analogous to form permitted
under the provisions of the Standby Guardianship Act, 23 Pa.C.S.A ~~ 5601-5616.
18. Commencement of a guardian authority under the Standby Guardianship Act
alone does not divest the natural parent of his or her rights. See 23 Pa.C.S.A. ~ 5613(c).
19. Furthermore, the Standby Guardianship Act specitically allows for the revocation
of a prior authorization. See 23 Pa.C.S.A. ~ 5614.
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20. In addition, a parent is permitted to revoke their consent to an adoption. 23
Pa.C.S.A. * 2711(c).
21. Defendant natural mother never intended to the permanent placement of her son
with the Plaintiffs, specific all y signed documentation that indicated the placement was
temporary, has since revoked her consent to the temporary placement of her son with the
Plaintiffs, has successfully defended her parental rights from termination, and yet Plaintiffs
persist in their unlawful attempts at retaining custody of the minor child even though Defendant
is no longer incarcerated and is able to care for her son.
22. For the reasons cited above, Plaintiffs lack standing to pursue this matter
requiring the dismissal of this further attempt by these third parties to undermine the prima facie
right of Defendant natural mother to the custody of her son.
WHEREFORE, the natural mother, Shalita Green, respectfully requests this Honorable
Court to dismiss the Custody Complaint and direct the immediate return of the minor child to the
natural mother.
Respectfully Submitted,
IRWIN & McKNIGHT
By:
Dated: May 4, 2006
Miller, Esquire
Supreme ourt ID # 83776
West Pomfret Professional Building
60 West Pomfret Street
Carlisle, Pennsylvania 17013
(717) 249-2353
Attorney for Defendant
5
CERTIFICA TE OF SERVICE
I, Douglas G. Miller, Esquire, do hereby certify that I have served a true and correct copy
of the foregoing document upon the persons indicated below by facsimile, on the date set forth
below:
BRADLEY L. GRIFFIE, ESQUIRE
GRIFFIE & ASSOCIATES, P.C.
200 NORTH HANOVER STREET
CARLISLE, PA 17013
FACSIMILE NUMBER: (717) 243-5063
IRWIN & McKNIGHT
By:
Douglas . Miller, Esquire
Supreme Court LD. No. 83776
West Pomfret Professional Building
60 West Pomfret Street
Carlisle, Pennsylvania 17013-3222
(717) 249-2353
Attorney for Shalita Green
Date: May 5, 2006
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or
AMY K. COOVER and CHARLES
E. COOVER, husband and wife,
Plaintiffs
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
vs.
CIVIL ACTION - LAW
NO. 06-2407 CIVIL
SHALITA GREEN,
Defendant
IN CUSTODY
ORDER
AND NOW, this q. day of May, 2006, after hearing and careful reflection on the
testimony adduced, the court being satisfied that the plaintiffs no longer have a basis to challenge
the right of the natural mother to custody, it is directed that custody of the child, Anthony Saleem
Young, Jr., is granted to his mother, the defendant Shalita Green. Delivery of the child to the
mother shall occur forthwith and shall be coordinated through the office of counsel for the
mother.
BY THE COURT,
viradley Griffie, Esquire
For the Plaintiffs
:r\m
~ouglas Miller, Esquire
For the Defendant
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AMY K. COOVER and
CHARLES E. COOVER,
Husband and Wife,
Plaintiffs
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS OF
CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA
CIVIL ACTION - LAW
V
SHALITA GREEN,
Defendant
NO. 2006-2407 CIVIL TERM
IN CUSTODY
IN RE: TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
Proceedings held before the
HONORABLE KEVIN A. HESS, J.,
Cumberland County Courthouse,
Carlisle, Pennsylvania,
on Friday, May 5, 2006,
in Courtroom Number 4.
APPEARANCES:
BRADLEY GRIFFIE, Esquire
For the Plaintiffs
DOUGLAS MILLER, Esquire
For the Defendant
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INDEX TO WITNESSES
FOR THE PLAINTIFFS DIRECT
Amy Coover
Anita Fedoriw
Rebecca Coover
5
27
34
FOR THE DEFENDANT
Shalita Green
Sabrina Price
37
82
2
CROSS
16
33
49
90
.
REDIRECT
22
76
97
RECROSS
25
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INDEX TO EXHIBITS
FOR THE PLAINTIFFS MARKED ADMITTED
Ex. No. 1 - photo album 14 99
FOR THE DEFENDANT
Ex. No. 1 - Genesis II document
dated April 24, 2006 41 99
3
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1 THE COURT: I have your complaint for
2 custody, Mr. Griffie. I believe we have agreed to proceed
3 that way.
4 MR. GRIFFIE: That's correct.
S THE COURT: And I have just received the
6 preliminary objections raising serious issues of standing.
7 I would suggest that we simply complete a record and take it
8 subject to your preliminary objections.
9 MR. MILLER: That's fine, Your Honor.
10 THE COURT: We will deal with the whole
11 matter. Very well.
12 MR. GRIFFIE: Your Honor, initially, based on
13 comments actually in chambers somewhere along the line,
14 since we have had a parental termination hearing before you,
lS' and we had a part of a custody hearing before you dealing
16 with the maternal aunt pursuing custody and my clients
17 having testified, it is my understanding that you are fairly
18 familiar with my clients and somewhat familiar with the -- I
19 guess it is the defendant in this action, so we don't want
20 to belabor points that you have heard before. But in that
21 regard, I would ask that we be permitted to submit a
22 transcript of the proceedings before you on January 12,
23 2006, which was the custody action between the aunt and my
24 clients. And we do have that transcribed, a copy of that is
2S part of the record here. And, also, that we, when it is
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finished, we get a transcription of the termination
proceedings and make that part of the record.
THE COURT: That may in fact have already
been prepared, but we will make both of those part of the
record.
MR. GRIFFIE: Okay. Your Honor, we call Amy
Coover to the stand to begin the testimony today.
Whereupon, AMY COOVER, having been duly
sworn, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. GRIFFIE:
Q Ms. Coover, please state your name and
address.
A I am Amy Coover. And I live at 117 Railroad
Lane in Shippensburg, Pennsylvania.
Q Ms. Coover, do you recall being present in
this courtroom on January 12, 2006, and again on March 17,
2006, to present testimony and proceedings before this
Judge?
A Yes.
Q And those proceedings related to the child,
Anthony Saleem Young, Jr., is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Do you continue to reside where you were at
the time that you testified previously in this matter?
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A Yes, I do.
Q Is your family composition any different?
A Yes. In a sense that my son, our oldest son,
Matthew, got married March 31st, so he has moved out. Him
and his wife now live about a half an hour away. Other than
that, the composition is the same.
Q Prior testimony suggested that you were in
the process of adopting a child through Perry County
Children & Youth Services. Is there any change in that
status at this point?
A That is still pending.
Q There has not been a termination hearing to
your knowledge?
A That's supposed to be in July sometime.
Q With respect to you and your husband, you are
still married to Charles I assume?
A Yes.
Q And with respect to your two employments, are
they the same? I believe you stay at home?
A Yes.
Q And what is his employment?
A He is a painting and wall-papering
contractor.
Q Same as a couple months ago?
A Yes.
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Q And the children are still home schooled?
A Yes.
Q So right now in your home is you, your
husband, Anthony, the child
A Kumar, yes.
Q Is how old?
is it Kumar?
A
Q
Three and a half.
And that's the child that's in the process of
being adopted through Perry County?
A Yes.
Q And then going up in age, the next child
is. . .
A Lydia.
Q How old is she?
A Fifteen.
Q And she is a natural child of yours and
Charles?
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
Yes.
And the next child?
And Rebecca is almost seventeen.
And then your son Matthew is out of the home?
Yes.
How is Anthony's health?
He has excellent health, no health problems.
We just finished going through a winter and a
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flu season and all of that, did he have any problems during
the winter?
A No. Runny nose a couple of times, nothing
more than that.
Q Was Anthony affected in any way whenever
Matthew got married and moved out of the house last month?
A Yes. I think in the normal way, that he was
very close to Matthew. With Matthew moving out, they miss
Matthew a lot. I think all of the siblings have kind of
clung together more, developed a different kind of closeness
with Matthew leaving.
Q With respect to the three natural children
that you have, how did they relate -- how have they related
to Anthony since you have had him?
A They have just -- he has fit into our family
like a little brother. They relate to him excellently.
Q Now, I believe because you home school, your
son Matthew has -- well, he takes the GED test. He took the
GED?
A He took the GED and passed it well.
Q How about Rebecca?
A She already took it and passed it well.
Q And Lydia?
A Lydia is studying for it right now. She
hasn't taken the test. She can't take it until she is
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sixteen.
Q You have to be sixteen.
when she was sixteen and passed it?
A Yes.
Q Since the last hearing in this matter in
And Rebecca took it
March, at that time, if I am correct, there was an order in
effect that provided for Ms. Green's sister, Nakita Green,
to visit once a month with the child, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q
Have any visits been requested or taken place
since we were last here?
A Since we were last here...
Q In March.
A
I don't believe so.
No.
Q After the termination hearing in January, was
there a visit in January?
A
I have to backtrack.
I have to count. No.
There wasn't one in January.
Q Was there a visit in February?
A I believe so.
Q This year has there been one visit?
A I think so. I think it was February.
Q And as far as you know, for March or April
there was no request for a visit?
A
No.
She didn't -- when we didn't hear
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anything, and she didn't corne.
Q And now you are aware she has withdrawn her
action?
9
A Yes.
Q Now, since the termination hearing on March
17, 2006, other than a demand that you take the child and
turn the child completely over to Shalita Green's attorney,
turn the child over to him to take to the mother, have there
been any requests for any type of contact, like a visit or
anything like that?
A No. None.
Q Have there been any telephone calls to your
home since March 17th when the termination hearing was held?
A None.
Q None from any of the Greens, Shalita, Nakita,
any of them?
A No. None of them, no.
Q Any letters or anything?
A No letters from anybody.
Q When, based on your testimony, when was the
last time that Shalita Green saw Anthony?
A On May the 31st.
Q Of last year?
A May the 31st of last year is the last time I
visited at the Riverside Correctional Institution.
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Q So approximately a year ago?
A Yes.
Q Have you received any requests from anyone
else in Shalita Green's family to have contact with the
child this year?
A No.
Q Ms. Coover, explain for the Court the
relationship you have with Anthony.
A I am his mama, I mean, put simply that's a
mother/child relationship. I am very close to him. We have
never left him with a baby-sitter. He has always been
either with Charlie and I, or on some occasions, like today,
he is with his sister. He is very close. He is like a son
to me.
5
Q Would your expectation be that if he
continues in your custody until he is of school age that you
would home school him?
A Yes.
Q Do you call Anthony Anthony, is that the name
you use for him?
A He came to us as Anthony as his given name.
After he came to us, we added -- we called him Anthoniya.
We put iya on the end. Anthony means inestimable value,
flourishing. And adding the ya on means in Yahweh or in
God. So he is flourishing in God.
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We call him Niya as a nickname, primarily
because when we would call him Anthoniya, Kumar couldn't say
Anthoniya. He just said Niya. So Niya has become his
nickname.
Q It is a nickname, you haven't changed his
name?
A No. It is just his nickname.
Q Ms. Coover, without going into details, I
assume you are familiar with when Anthony goes to bed, when
he gets up and all of those traits that he has?
A Yes.
Q You take care of his food every day?
A Yes.
Q So you are aware of what he eats, what he
likes, what he doesn't like?
A Yes.
Q Are you aware of any little medical problems
or idiosyncrasies he might have?
A I would -- I mean, whatever he has, yes.
Medically he really doesn't have any problems, but, yes, I
would be aware of all of that.
Q Just the day-to-day words that he uses and
maybe doesn't pronounce correctly, from the area we refer to
as Pennsylvania Dutch, a little bit of slang and that type
of thing, you are familiar with how he talks and what words
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he might not pronounce properly and that sort of thing?
A Yes.
Q Do you communicate very well with him?
A Yes.
Q I assume you are also very familiar with his
temperament?
A
Yes.
Q Ms. Coover, if you and your family visit
someone, particularly someone who is not real familiar with
you, how does Anthony react to the new faces and new people?
A If it is somebody that he is not very, very,
very familiar with he clings. He clings to one of us.
There is a few people, like grandma, that's here today with
us, that he will go to. But if it is not somebody like that
that he knows very well, he won't go to them.
Q How about even close friends of your family?
A If you are there for hours and hours and
hours, people that we have known for years, you know, since
he was born, he will go to them eventually, you know,
hesitantly, but that even takes a good while.
Q Is there any expectation that you have of
anything changing in your lives with respect to your home,
who lives there and how you are raising the children
including Anthony?
A Any expectations of change?
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Q
Of change?
A
Not that I can think of right now.
Q
No expectation of moving?
A
No.
Q
Job situations changing?
A
No.
Q
And in your home how many bedrooms are there?
A
Four or five. It could be more. We have a
9 couple rooms, like a play room, that would be an extra
10 bedroom, a spare room.
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Q
Right now where is Anthony's bedroom, who
12 does he sleep with?
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He shares a bedroom with Kumar, right beside
14 Charlie and I's room.
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Q
Did you have the opportunity to -- I mean,
16 over time to take pictures of Anthony?
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Yes.
Q
And does he have his own little picture album
19 that you have of pictures of him with the family on his own
20 and that sort of thing?
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A
Yes.
Q
Did you bring that with you today?
A
Yes, I did.
(Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit No.1
was marked for identification.)
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Q Ms. Coover, I am showing you what we have
marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit No.1. Is this the picture
album that you have for Anthony?
A Yes.
Q And basically does this show him with family
members, your immediate family?
A Yes. There is one picture with some other
people that we know. And there is a picture with grandma.
But essentially it is basically our family.
Q Just so we can identify people. If you look
at the first picture in the book, going from left to right,
can you name the people?
A Kumar is the little boy that Charlie is
holding. And then beside Charlie is Lydia, and me holding
Anthony, and then there is Rebecca and our son Matthew.
Q Again, this family makeup has remained the
same for the approximate two years, almost two years, that
you have had Anthony?
A Except for Matthew marrying.
Q Marrying and moving. Okay. Since you
previously testified in these matters, has anything else
changed or has anything changed with respect to your medical
history or Charlie's medical history?
A No.
Q With respect to your religious background and
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beliefs?
A
Q
No.
With respect to the medical history of your
children?
A
No.
MR. GRIFFIE: That's all the questions I
have.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. MILLER:
Q You testified that the last time Shalita saw
Anthony was in May of 2005, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And that's been because of your refusal to
either return him to another family member or to bring him
down for any additional visits, isn't that correct?
A No. That's not correct.
Q And more recently you did receive a request
or a copy of a request from our office that you return
Anthony, so that he could be returned to Shalita, isn't that
correct?
A I did receive a demand from you to do that,
yes.
Q And you did not comply with that request,
isn't that correct?
A I sought legal counsel, and our legal counsel
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through him, no, we did not.
Q And you view yourself as the mother of
Anthony, is what you testified to?
A I said we have a mother/child relationship
since he has been with us since he came out of the hospital.
I am not his biological mother, but as far as, you know, how
a relationship works, I am like a mother to him.
Q So you view this really as a continuation of
your attempts to ultimately formalize that relationship?
A I don't understand that question.
Q You desire to formally become the mother of
Anthony, isn't that correct?
A I don't know what the future holds regarding
Anthony.
Q Now, you said that the change in Anthony's
name was just a nickname, is that correct?
A We didn't change his name. It is a nickname,
yes.
Q But names are very important to you and your
religion, isn't that correct?
A I don't understand the question.
Q You often use names for things that are
different from names that other people use?
A I don't know what you are referring to
specifically.
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Q Well, for instance, do you have other names
that you use for your children other than their given names?
A There are Hebrew forms of their names, but
generally we use their given names.
Q And the Hebrew forms of names for all things,
whether it is family members or other individuals, whether
it is God or anyone else, you use the Hebrew version of
those names, isn't that correct?
A We do use the Hebrew version for our father
and his son, yes.
Q And that's really the reason for the change
in Anthony, in the name of Anthony?
A We didn't change his name. We just added the
ya on the end.
Q But there is religious significance to that
for you, isn't there?
A There is significance to that for us, yes.
Q Have you had Anthony immunized since the last
hearing?
A
No.
Q Do you plan on having him immunized?
A No.
Q And I am still a little unclear as to the
reason for your not wanting to have him immunized. Can you
explain that for me?
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A Because we don't believe -- I am a nurse. I
am aware of some of the side effects of immunizations. I am
aware of the chances of children catching things that they
didn't ask for, the adverse reactions to the shots. Some of
the things are proven, some things aren't. Some things are
very questionable.
I wouldn't call it a religious issue because
there is people that believe as we do that do immunize. And
there is people that don't. But it is something that we
have studied and opted not to do we feel for the welfare of
the child.
Q For you it is a religious issue though, isn't
that correct?
A No.
Q And you are aware to have a child enrolled in
a public school, they would have to have their
immunizations?
A No. My oldest son for a short time went to
public school in kindergarten. We just claimed religious
exemption, because that's the only thing you can claim.
Actually you can claim, I understand now, philosophical
exemption. We just requested to be exempt from the shots.
Q But you don't plan to enroll him in any
public school?
A Anthony?
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Q Yes.
A No. That's not my plan.
Q Now, since our last hearing, you have tried
to contact -- or, in fact, have been in contact with Caton
Village, where Shalita Green lives, isn't that correct?
A I did call, yes.
Q And you actually spoke with a Sabrina Price
there, the family service coordinator, isn't that correct?
A Yes, I did.
Q And once she determined who you were, she
told you that she was not able to speak with you, isn't that
correct?
A Yes. She told me unless I had a waiver or
something signed. I was simply calling to see if Shalita
was there in fact.
Q And she told you ln effect that you did not
have permission to call there?
A She told me that she couldn't give me any
information, yes.
Q And after that conversation, how many more
times did you try and call Caton Village?
A I talked to Sabrina Price right after Shalita
got in Caton Village. And at that time, when I talked to
her, she gave me -- I told her who I was. She misunderstood
who I was. And she gave me quite a bit of information, not
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anything in depth, but then I reiterated who I was. And she
realized that she wasn't supposed to be talking to me. So
she told me that she couldn't give anymore information. So
then I called back one other time and just asked if Shalita
was still there. And that's the only two times I spoke with
her.
Q So after she told you that she couldn't talk
to you and you weren't to be contacting their office
A She didn't tell me I couldn't contact the
office.
Q Let me finish my question, please. After she
told you that she couldn't speak with you, that you were not
permitted to have any information about Shalita Green, you
persisted and contacted at least one more time, by your
testimony, isn't that correct?
A She didn't tell me I couldn't call. She just
told me that she couldn't give me detailed information. I
simply called one more time just to see if she was still at
the facility. That's the only question I asked.
Q And did you then contact DHS, the Department
of Human Services in Philadelphia?
A I did contact the Department of Human
Services, yes.
Q And what did you tell them?
A I just asked them to check out the baby that
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Shalita had and the situation, and just make sure the baby
was safe.
Q You in fact filed a complaint and indicated
that this baby was probably addicted to drugs, and that
Shalita was not a fit mother and needed to be investigated,
isn't that correct?
A No. I did not.
MR. MILLER: Those are all the questions I
have, Your Honor.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. GRIFFIE:
Q Ms. Coover, you certainly realize that
Shalita Green or Belinda Green is the natural mother of
Anthony, correct?
A Yes, of course.
Q Are you aware, from your involvement with
her, of her criminal history?
A Yes.
Q And her extensive incarcerations?
A Yes.
Q And her drug and/or alcohol abuse?
A Yes. More the drug abuse than the alcohol.
Q What would your expectation be if Shalita
Green is able to overcome all of those difficulties that
actually caused Anthony to be placed with you?
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MR. MILLER: Objection, Your Honor. I think
it calls for a high degree of speculation that there is no
foundation for.
MR. GRIFFIE: She knows what her expectation
is
THE COURT: I think it is just the matter of
the form of the question. I think I know what you are
asking, but I am not sure.
MR. GRIFFIE: I will rephrase.
BY MR. GRIFFIE:
Q Mrs. Coover, if Shalita Green in fact can
remain outside of prison, and can remain drug free, and can
avoid all those things that she has had difficulty with that
put her where she is now and where she has been whenever you
got the child, if she is able to correct her life, what is
your expectation as to what would happen with Anthony?
A My expectation from the beginning, as I told
her when I first met her, has been that if she would get her
life in order, which is our hope and prayer all along, that
he would be with her.
Q Would that be a cold turkey type transfer
from your perspective, where he is here today and gone down
there tomorrow?
A From my perspective, I think that would be
the cruelest thing in the world to do to a child.
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Q What would you envision occurring if this
takes place in Ms. Green's life?
A If Ms. Green's life got straightened up, I
would envision visits gradually so he could get to know her.
As I say, he doesn't -- he hasn't been ever with anybody
else without his family, us, present. I would envision
visits gradually so he could get to know her, so he could
develop a relationship with her.
Q Is it your understanding Ms. Green has
another child?
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
is?
A
like that.
Q
knowledge?
A
Q
A
Q
Yes.
Or actually two other children?
Two other children, yes.
One is an infant?
Yes.
And one -- do you know how old that other one
I lost track, maybe four or five, something
But that older child is not with her to your
Not to my knowledge.
And she has never raised that older child?
No.
And she has never raised Anthony. She had
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Anthony with her one day in the hospital basically?
A Yes.
Q And this newborn would be the first child
that she has had any experience raising, from your
knowledge?
A To my understanding, yes.
Q So would the transition you describe not only
be for Anthony's benefit, to make that transition, but also
for Ms. Green to make the transition to caring for a child
of this age?
A Of course, yes.
MR. GRIFFIE: That's all the questions I
have.
RECROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. MILLER:
Q Just to follow-up. The reason Anthony has
not been with anyone else is because that's what you have
insisted upon, isn't that correct?
A As his family we don't leave him with other
people.
Q Again, as his family, I mean, you consider
yourself his family? That's the bottom line here, isn't it?
A We are the only family he has ever had, sir.
Q But that has been because of your actions,
hasn't it?
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A No. That has been because he was placed with
us from the beginning.
Q He wasn't placed with you by DHS or Children
& Youth Services or any official government agency, was he?
A No. He was placed with us by the prison
ministry program.
Q And as part of that prison ministry program,
you understood it was a temporary arrangement, that you were
required to return him under the terms of the temporary
custody agreement, isn't that correct?
A We understood from the temporary arrangement
that -- and also from me talking to her, that we would
return him when she was out of prison and she had her life
in order.
Q So now that she is out of prison and has her
life in order you are willing to return him?
A I think we have a difference of opinion as to
having her life in order.
Q And let me back up a little bit. You refused
to agree to anything other than supervised visitations where
you would be present with Shalita's sister, isn't that
correct?
A We suggested that if there were visits, it
would be wise that we should be present, yes.
Q But you refused to agree to anything else,
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2
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That was our suggestion, that we be present,
3 and that was granted.
4
Q
You were not willing to allow Nakita to have
5 her nephew outside of your presence?
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We did not think that was wise for his
Q
A
You didn't think it was wise?
Well, I didn't think it was wise, no.
MR. MILLER: No further questions, Your
MR. GRIFFIE: Nothing further.
THE COURT: Thank you.
MR. GRIFFIE: Call Anita Fedoriw.
15 Whereupon, ANITA FEDORIW, having been
16 duly sworn, testified as follows:
17 DIRECT EXAMINATION
18 BY MR. GRIFFIE:
19
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Q
A
Please state your name and your address.
My name is Anita Fedoriw, 9400 Anthony
21 Highway, Waynesboro, Pennsylvania.
22
23 Coover?
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Ms. Fedoriw, how do you know Charles and Amy
A
Q
Well, we met through a mutual friend.
How long have you known them?
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A
Q
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Q
Between fourteen and fifteen years.
And do you have any children?
Yes, I do.
How many?
I have eight.
So do you have any children around the ages
of the Coovers' children?
A Yes, we do.
Q How old is your youngest?
A Our youngest is twenty-two months.
Q So the eight children is spread through the
ages. How old is your oldest?
A Our oldest is seventeen.
Q Do you consider yourself to be a close friend
of the Coovers?
A Yes, I do.
Q What type of contact do you have with them?
Do you have telephone contact with them?
A Yes. Quite a bit of telephone contact. Amy
lS like a sister to me. She has adopted my mother as her
own, as another mother. And my mother treats her like that,
and she treats my mother like a mother.
Q And you know her children, you have met her
children?
A Yes. Very well.
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Q And have you met Anthony or Niya?
A Yes, I have.
Q About how often might your families be
together, that you see the children together?
A It depends from year to year and because we
live thirty-five miles apart, but our goal is to get
together every month. And we have tried to do that, not
always, but that's our goal.
Q Have there been times when you have been
together more than once a month?
A Yes.
Q And when you are together and have been
together over the last I guess twenty months or so, what
type of relationship do you see between Anthony and Mrs.
Coover?
A Definitely a mother/son. I mean, we get
together, and he clings to her like the most special person
in the world to him is Amy, you know. He goes to his
father, and he goes to his siblings of course, but, of
course, he prefers Amy above the others.
Q Have you seen him around situations where
there are people there who he doesn't know?
A Yes.
Q How does he react to that?
A Well, he is clingy to his mommy, the only
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mommy he knows.
Q And how about the Coover children, what
relationship have you witnessed between them and Anthony?
A What relationship...
Q How do you see them reacting to each other
and dealing with each other?
A Well, they seem to enjoy each other. I would
say the older children, you know, he plays more with, you
know, the sibling the closest to him. But the older are --
it is a different relationship when you have the older with
the younger, because the younger look up to the older more
like a parent than a sibling.
Q Like with your seventeen year old and your
twenty-two month old?
A Yes, that's right. It is a different
relationship.
Q How do you see Anthony as a child? Have you
seen him be a discipline problem or acting out, or is he a
good listener? How have you seen him?
A I have been deeply impressed with their
training of him. In fact, I could learn some things from
the way they have trained him so well. He is joyful. He is
a joyful child. And he listens well to them. He is happy.
Q Have you ever been in situations, like in
church or situations like that where he has to be calm and
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2 A That's right. Occasionally they visit our
3 church, and I have seen him just sit happily on their lap
4 and play during the church service. You know, occasionally
5 a toddler is going to, you know, make noise occasionally,
6 but as a rule he just is happy just sitting there and
7 playing.
8 Q Have you witnessed anything else about how
9 Charles and Amy raise their children with respect to the
10 special gifts that the children have, any type of talents?
11 A Well, I have always admired the way that they
12 are able to take each child, and I don't say take, but they
13 see the gifts, you know, God has given each one of us gifts.
14 And we are all have different gifts. And we work better
15 together if we excel in the way that God has made us.
16 And I have seen them take -- allow their
17 children to excel in the gifts that they have. For
18 instance, their oldest son, he has always been
19 creation-oriented, you know. I remember one time he stayed
20 at our house, and it was just like half an hour he found
21 thirty crickets. I mean, that's just the way he is. I
22 mean, of course, he has grown out of that stage now. He is
23 married. But he still is very much a creation-lover. And
24 they have allowed them to not only excel in their gifts but
25 enjoy what they do, you know, to really enjoy.
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Music is a great part of their home. And I
don't know that I have ever heard from the children that it
is time to take music lessons, take one. The children just
enjoy and do it, because they encourage them in that area.
Q And in that respect, I understand that
Anthony is very young, but do you see them treating him in
the same way that they have treated their own natural
children as they have grown?
A Definitely.
Q And do you have your children around Amy?
A Yes.
Q And has she ever kept any of your children,
or have they stayed at her house, or has she had to watch
them or anything like that?
A Yes. She would be my first choice besides my
sisters, which live a distance from me. And just a week
before Anthony came into their home, my oldest son was
running his bicycle and he was hit by a car. And it was a
very serious accident. He was Life-Lioned to Hershey. And
I know that she is thirty-five miles away. And she is the
first person and only person I thought of that I would trust
my children with. She came and she stayed all day with
them, brought her children. And I understood later on that
even her husband came and spent some time there too.
Q And you said she has a special relationship
Q
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with your mother as well?
A That's right. My mother has some dementia,
and she lives with us. And so because of her situation it
is hard just for me to leave and, you know, know that I can
trust her with somebody. But Amy, I can trust her. She is
the only one in the area actually that I would, you know,
allow my mother to go and stay with.
Q Now, do you have any personal knowledge about
the natural mother of Anthony, Ms. Green, who is here today?
A All I know is what I have heard in court
today, because Amy has made it a point that she doesn't talk
about it. All I know is that Anthony was from a mother that
was in prison, and that is the extent of it. As close as
Amy and I are, Amy does not talk about it.
Q She doesn't talk at all about it especially
in front of the children, she doesn't announce anything
about her feelings about the mother or what the mother has
done or shouldn't have done?
A Not at all. Not at all. I know nothing
about the mother but what I have heard today.
MR. GRIFFIE: That's all the questions I
have.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. MILLER:
Q It is possible she doesn't talk about
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Anthony's mother because she doesn't really care about the
mother, isn't that also true?
A No.
MR. MILLER: No further questions.
MR. GRIFFIE: Nothing further, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Thank you.
MR. GRIFFIE: Your Honor, I call Rebecca
Coover to the stand.
Your Honor, may Ms. Fedoriw, the last
witness, be excused?
THE COURT: Unless there is objection?
MR. MILLER: No objection.
Whereupon, REBECCA COOVER, having been
duly sworn, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. GRIFFIE:
Q Rebecca, please state your name and address.
A My name is Rebecca Coover. And I live at 117
Railroad Lane, Shippensburg, Pennsylvania.
Q And, Rebecca, are your parents Charles and
Amy Coover who are in court here sitting beside me today?
A Yes.
Q And how old are you?
A Almost seventeen.
Q When is your birthday?
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June 8.
Q
And I believe in your home you did have an
3 older brother, Matthew, is that correct?
4
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Yes.
Q
He is married and moved away now?
A
Yes.
Q
But you still have a younger sister?
A
Yes.
Q
And her name is what?
A
Lydia.
Q
And then you have what hopefully soon will be
12 a little brother, Kumar, is that correct?
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Yes.
Q
And then Anthony, who we are talking about
A
Yes.
Q
Have you lived in the home with Anthony since
18 he came to your mother and father?
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A
Yes.
Q
How do you feel about Anthony?
A
Well, he seems very much like a little
22 brother to me. I treat him like my little brother. And he
23
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I mean, that's the way we operate.
Q
He is part of your family?
A
Yes.
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Q Do you have an understanding that some day he
may not be in your family anymore? You know that may occur?
A Yes.
Q But that doesn't stop you from treating him
like a little brother?
A No.
Q What do you see in his relationship with your
mother, how do you see him reacting with your mother, Amy
Coover?
s
A Well, he treats her like his mother. And he
likes to be with her more than anyone else. She is the only
one he will take his milk for and things like that. He
likes to be with her best.
Q So there is real strong ties there?
A Yes.
Q And how about with your father, how does he
get along with your father?
A He loves him very much. He loves to spend
time with him.
Q I understand you and your siblings, you are
musically inclined?
A Yes.
Q How about Anthony, who is not quite two yet,
have you seen anything out of him yet relative to his
feelings toward music?
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A He is very interested in music. And he likes
to play anything that he can get his hands on.
Q What instruments do you play?
A Piano and guitar mainly. That's usually what
I play.
MR. GRIFFIE: That's all the questions I
have.
MR. MILLER: I hope you stick with piano
longer than I did. I don't have any questions.
MR. GRIFFIE: You may step down.
That's all we have to present at this time.
We do reserve the right for rebuttal.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. MILLER: We would call Shalita Green to
the stand.
Whereupon, SHALITA GREEN, having been
duly sworn, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. MILLER:
Q Can you state your full name for the record?
A Shalita Green.
Q And you have been in this courtroom before,
is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Tell me how things have been going at Caton
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Village? Are you still there?
A Yes.
Q And what have you been doing and learning
about?
A Well, I attend my meetings from 9:00 in the
morning to 12:00. I help out in the day-care. I do my
chore three times a day. I have taken a job skill class
also.
Q What class is that?
A I am learning how to be a chef, learning how
to be a chef.
Q How many times do you have class for that?
A After lunch we go straight into class, at
1:00 until 4:00. And basically I help out with the kids a
lot. We all have to attend child care everyday for an hour.
Q For one hour?
A Yes. And be with the kids.
Q And what kind of things do you learn about in
that class?
A In Child Care I we help out with the infants.
We help the grandmas, we call them grandmas, it is ten
grandmas, it is like right now we have four infants. We
help out changing them and, you know, they show us important
things about them.
And Child Care II 18 like the two and three
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to four year olds. We have play time and sing time with
them. And we teach them different books and show them
pictures in books and stuff, and we read with them.
And Child Care III is the four and five years
old until they go to school. We help out with them with
their writing, their singing, reading and, you know,
teaching them different things that you teach kids that get
ready for kindergarten.
Q Have you had any problems during your time at
Caton Village since your release in March?
A No. No problems at all.
Q Was there a time recently when someone from
DHS in Philadelphia came to Caton Village to speak with you?
A Yes.
Q What was your understanding for the reason
for that visit?
A The director called me to the office, who is
over at the rehab, she said, Shalita, I don't understand
this, but I don't want you to get upset or anything. We
have a visitor for the baby, and it is someone from DHS. I
said why is DHS here to see me.
Q Well, let me back up one second. Since you
testified in March --
A I testified on March 17th. That Monday DHS
was called. After I left this courtroom on March 17th, that
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Monday, DHS was called. But they didn't corne to see me
until I think last week or the week before last. And when I
went in the office Lekisha from DHS was there, and plainly
stated I need to talk to you, and I need to see the baby.
And I said okay, and I went and got my son. She said --
Q When did you deliver your son, your third
son?
A He was born April 10th.
Q And what is his name?
A
Jeremiah Isaiah Green.
Q And is he in the courtroom here today?
A Yes. He is sitting with my sister. She told
me that she had got an anonymous phone call and a report
stating that Shalita is neglecting her baby, leaving him
alone. And also Shalita Green is getting high.
Ms. Avis, who is the director, couldn't
believe it, and said we have
every week I take a urine
there, because they have to be reported to my PO. From the
day I walked in the door, March 14th, I take urines every
week. And she said is it all right -- I sign a slip over to
her showing her that my urine has been clean every week
since I have been there. And that I have been doing what I
have to do since I have been there.
Q And did you agree to sign over those records?
A Yes, I did.
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(Whereupon, Defendant's Exhibit No.1
was marked for identification.)
Q Let me show you what we have marked as
Defendant's Exhibit No.1. Can you identify that document,
please?
A Yes.
Q
What lS it?
A This is my weekly urines.
Q This is the letter that Avis Sawyer, who you
mentioned, had prepared?
A Yes. She is the director. She is over at
the rehab.
Q And it reflects how many urinalysis results?
A I have took six, because from the -- why
there is a gap from April 4th to April 19th because I was
delivering my son Jeremiah.
Q Have you had any positive urinalysis results?
A No. I just took one the other day. Actually
it was Wednesday. I take weekly, every week.
Q Do you also have to take one whenever you
leave the center?
A Yes. Like when I am gone all day like this,
when I get back, I have to take a urine.
Q And was this document provided to DHS?
A Yes. I had to sign over for them to get
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copies of my urine.
Q To your knowledge did DHS take any further
action with regard to your son, Jeremiah?
A No. Lekisha stated that -- she couldn't
believe that whoever called her didn't tell her it was a
rehab. She couldn't believe that it was a rehab. And she
said my son have everything he want. She even took pictures
of how much milk, clothing. He have everything until he get
like one or two years old. He have everything he want.
Q Now, does Jeremiah stay with you at the
center?
A Yes, he do.
Q Where does he stay?
A He stay in my apartment. It is like
apartments on each floor. It is eight rooms.
Q And how big are the apartments?
A They are huge. You have your own apartment
and everything. The only thing you share is a bathroom with
one other person on the floor. Everybody have their own
bathroom. You share with your next door neighbor, that's
all.
Q Are there kitchens or other appliances in
these apartments, or what's in them?
A Yes. Your room is like a studio room. All
the kids and everybody -- actually I work in the kitchen.
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My chore is the kitchen. The kitchen is big like a
restaurant. After they go eat, they either go to school by
8:00, or they are in child care at 8:30, 9:00.
Q And so do you have a crib for Jeremiah in
your room?
A Yeah. I have a crib. Yes.
Q Is it Jeremy or Jeremiah?
A Jeremiah.
Q Jeremiah. Okay.
A He have a crib. He have a walker. He have a
carrier. He have a stroller. He have everything he need.
Q And who is responsible for feeding him and
changing him?
A I do. Every night, all night.
Q Is there day-care provided at the center?
A Yes. There is day-care. That's Child I.
Day-care is downstairs. We have a day-care. We have
preschool before the kids get six year old and go to
kindergarten. Like I said, Child Care I, II and III.
It is big, like a school. So it is different parts, for the
babies, the middle age, and until they to go school.
Q Do you know what ages of children are
currently at Caton Village?
A I think the ages you can go up to is fifteen,
sixteen. But, you know, you won't be there that long,
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because I get my house and stuff after SlX months. I sign
up for housing and stuff.
Q So this is a six month program at Caton
Village, right?
A It is six to nine months. But you go into
housing. Once you are in the program and you complete a
couple months, they sign you into housing, and you get your
own house.
Q What kind of housing -- well, is the housing
provided for you?
A Yes. For anyone in rehab housing is provided
for anyone that go to rehab.
Q Is that through Caton Village, or is that
through another agency?
A That's through -- it is through FIR
(phonetic). FIR is the insurance company. And it is
through CBH, who pays for people to go into rehab. They
sign you up for housing.
Q And what is FIR?
A FIR is the people who find people programs.
And then they take you to CBH to pay for the people with
drug addictions that go into programs.
Q What does CBH stand for?
A CBH -- I don't know, but it is an insurance
company that pay for the programs.
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Q Is this housing then only for three months,
or how long is it for?
A No. Every seven years you have to resign.
You have your house for seven years. And then you resign.
And as soon as you resign, and they see you are in housing,
they keep you on from seven to nine years.
Q Now, when you are transitioned out of Caton
Village in six to nine months, and put into housing that
they find for you, what further actions do you have to take?
Are you still on probation at that point?
A Yes. I am on probation until I think July or
June of next year, but I will continue outpatient.
Q So you have to continue to meet with your
parole officer I assume?
A Yes.
Q Is there any oversight provided while you are
in the housing outside of Caton Village?
A Yes. In the housing -- they find you houses
and stuff, and being that I am through FIR, I have to still
go to outpatient. Since I have been doing very well, my PO,
my next appointment, instead of her seeing me every two to
three weeks, since I have been doing good and giving urines
clean every week, I don't have to meet with my PO until July
16th.
7
Q Do you know how often the classes will be
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once you are transitioned into your own housing?
A The classes -- do you mean going to keep
getting treatment?
Q Yes.
A I can do that -- as long as I feel that I
need treatment, I am going to stay in treatment. I am going
to keep going to outpatient meetings and stuff. Because
there is a lot of meetings around Philly that I am going to
keep staying with.
Q What about medical care for your children,
how is that provided?
A Right now my son -- I just took my son and
got his tuberculosis shot. They don't get the rest of their
shots when they are a newborn for six weeks. But he take
the rest of his shots in three weeks. I really care about
their shots, because they be around other children, you
know, playing with other children and stuff.
Q And is there a medical facility on site at
Caton Village?
A No. They have a doctor that come in there.
They have a clinic doctor for the kids, a regular doctor.
And they come in every day. And when they see that doctor,
if the child was to get, you know, that need to go to the
hospital, they take them to Hahnemann Hospital around the
corner. And we make sure they go to Saint Christopher's for
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his appointments. He have his appointment May 10th, next
week.
Q Is that his first appointment since he has
been born?
A No. That's his second appointment.
Q How did the first appointment go?
A His first appointment he is very healthy. He
eats a lot, but he is very healthy. There is nothing wrong
with him or anything.
Q He is gaining weight?
A Yes. They said that's a good thing.
Q Now, would you be permitted to have Anthony
ln your room at Caton Village?
A Yes. It is very huge. He would have his own
bed, everything. He would have his own room -- not his own
room. But it is real huge. It is huger than this courtroom
right here, my room.
Q So they would provide a separate bed for him,
or is there a bed ready?
A Yes. All the kids have their own private...
Q And then what sort of activities would he be
involved in?
A They have different people that corne from the
outside, from different agencies, everyday. They have prac
time, I think it is called prac time. A lady corne in. She
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sit with the kids and the family. You have activities with
them, like from 2:00 to 4:00, 2:00 to 3:30.
They have like kid computers, classes and
stuff. Like downstairs they teach the kids and stuff in the
schools -- not the schools, the child care and stuff, until
they are old enough to go to school. Right now there is
twenty women, and there is thirty-three kids there.
Q And how are meals provided?
A Every meal -- breakfast, they have breakfast.
Breakfast is served at 7:30, because the kids go to school
at 8:00. Lunch is served at 12:00. Snack time for the kids
is at 4:00. Dinnertime is at 5:00. Then like 7:30, 8:00
they give the kids milk and cookies. And then bedtime is
called in the facility at 9:00 for all children. Bedtime
for all children at 9:00.
Q And at those mealtimes are all of the mothers
and children sitting together?
A Yes.
Q Do you remember when the last time you
attempted to contact the Coovers directly was?
A The last time I tried to contact the Coovers
was like a week before I got out of jail. I have been
trying to contact them every week before then and that week.
Q So that would have been in March of this
year, 2006?
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1 A Yes.
2 Q Since the hearing have you attempted to
3 contact them?
4 A No. Because I feel that -- I was told to
contact you, because before when I was contacting them, when
I was incarcerated and stuff, it is like they know my calls,
so they will never answer the phone or whatever.
Q You left messages for them that were never
returned, is that right?
A Yes. Mostly every time I called.
Q You testified to that previously?
A Yes.
MR. MILLER: Those are all the questions I
have at this time, Your Honor.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. GRIFFIE:
Q Ms. Green, 1S anyone here today from Caton
Village to testify about their program?
MR. MILLER: If I may, Your Honor --
THE WITNESS: Doug Miller is supposed to be
getting in contact with them.
MR. MILLER: We have someone available by
telephone to testify.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
BY MR. GRIFFIE:
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Q Have you brought any type of pictures or
anything to show us what the facility is like?
A No. I wasn't asked. But the facility is a
good facility.
Q You indicated it was as big -- I am not sure
I understood this. Your room is as big as this courtroom?
A My room is almost the size of this courtroom,
if you just take this out right here.
Q For you and the baby to sleep in?
A Yes.
Q And there is no one else in that room?
A No. Mostly all the rooms are like that. It
1S really like a big apartment building, eight girls to a
floor. It is really a big apartment building.
Q Eight rooms this size on each floor?
A Yes.
Q Isn't it correct that you were in a substance
abuse facility before? You have tried being in facilities
like this before, right?
A On my own.
Q Up in Allentown or somewhere like that?
A No. I went to (response inaudible). And
being that I was on drugs and I really needed the help when
I went there, they only detoxed me. So detox was only three
days, so I still had the addiction in my mind. And they
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sent me right back out.
Q What addictions do you have? What types of
drugs were you using, marijuana?
A My drug of choice were crack cocaine.
Q And obviously you didn't use crack cocaine
when you were in the prison?
A
No, I didn't.
Q So you haven't used since you went to prison
when?
A That was in July. July 17th of this year I
have a year clean.
Q Now, at Caton Village there is levels you
have to earn by good behavior, correct?
A Yes.
Q Was there a psychological evaluation
performed on you when you went to Caton Village?
A Yes, there was. In fact, there was one done
on me, which Doug can talk to Ms. Avis when he call today.
One was done on me the day before yesterday. And it was
stated that
Q Don't tell me what it stated. We will let
that speak for itself. Did you bring that along today?
A No. He can get in touch with them. He is
getting in touch with people today.
Q What medicines are you on now?
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1 A I take Benadryl as needed when I can't sleep,
2 only Benadryl.
3 Q Prior to your last incarceration, isn't it
correct that you were on multiple medications?
A Yes. Because I was incarcerated.
take the fact of being incarcerated.
Q You were on Thorazine?
A Yes, I was.
Q Prozac?
A Yes, I was.
Q At some point you were on Zoloft?
A When I was pregnant because they couldn't
I couldn't
give me nothing to harm me. That's for depression. I was
depressed because I was incarcerated.
Q Depakene, D-e-p-a-k-e-n-e?
A Yes, I was.
Q At one point you were on Haldol, H-a-l-d-o-l?
A No. They wanted to give me Haldol, and I
refused it.
Q Now, I want to make sure this record is clear
as to how many times you have visited Anthony, okay? He was
brought to you in September after he was born for a visit,
correct?
A Yes.
Q And October after he was born, correct?
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A Yes.
Q And then November you got out, and November
and December there weren't any visits. You were out of
prison, correct?
A Yeah.
Q And then we came into 2005.
A Yes.
Q January there was no visit, last January?
A Yes.
Q And February 2005, over a year ago, did you
have a visit then?
A I might have. I know when I was incarcerated
I have seen my son like three or four times, when it was
told to me, I seen my son at least once a month.
Q Okay. Now, Amy Coover testified in the
previous hearing that she brought Anthony to visit you two
times last May, May 31st and May 3rd?
A Yes.
Q And I believe you testified that's not true?
A When she brought him in May I visit him. The
next time she visit him, they would not let -- the next time
she came to see me, she did not have him with her, because
she had came there by herself. They wouldn't let her see me
because she tried to sneak me a letter in the jail. They
told her not to send it, and she came.
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Q And is that around the time that you signed
another paper about Nakita having custody? Is that around
the same time that you did that?
A I signed for Nakita to have custody I think
ln March.
Q March of 2005?
A I asked my family to take my son as soon as
my son was born.
Q Now, Ms. Green, if you signed for Nakita in
March, assume that's correct, do you recall having any
visits with your child in March, April or May of last year?
A I didn't have no visit in March, April. I
think it was in May I had one visit. The next time she came
up there, she could not get in. And I was told she didn't
have my son with her. So I don't know what reason was the
visit for. She didn't have my son with her. And they told
her she cannot visit no more, to get in contact with Ms.
Ford, because she mailed me a paper that the jail told her
not to bring in the facility.
Q And I am trying to be clear, because I think
your testimony is a little different as to when the visits
were, but your recollection, there would have been one visit
with Anthony in May of last year?
A Yes.
Q None in April, none in March?
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A I don't think, no.
Q What is your understanding of your
psychiatric diagnosis, the doctor's diagnosis of what your
mental or psychiatric problems are?
A My psych at the jail, and he will tell you
that he put me on medication --
Q Listen, Ms. Green, listen to my question,
okay?
A Okay.
Q What is your understanding of what your
problems are? You tell me what your understanding is.
A That I was depressed. I was incarcerated.
was out of society.
Q Did you hear things about mood disorder?
A Yes. That I have been upset because of the
predicament that I was in in life, yeah.
Q At one point isn't it correct that you were
diagnosed as Bipolar?
A Yes. He did say I was Bipolar.
Q And did you ever hear borderline personality
I
disorder?
A No. I heard that I was Bipolar.
Q Okay.
A And he figured I was bipolar because I
pregnant and I was moody, and I was going through my own
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things.
records,
Q Ms. Green, if we look over your prison
just from this last time you were in from --
A July.
Q July of 2005 until --
A March.
Q
March of 2006, we will find quite a few
statements in there of you threatening suicide, right?
There were several times you were written up and sent for
treatment because you were threatening suicide?
A Yeah. There is a reason for that also.
Q Okay. If your attorney wants you to explain
that, he can ask you that.
A Yes.
Q And there were times that you refused medical
treatment because you didn't want woken up to be given
medicine, for example. Do you remember telling them
A I was pregnant. I was tired. Yeah.
Q And different times when they were
recommending different types of treatment, even a diet, a
special diet, because you were pregnant you refused, isn't
that right?
A Yes. You have to see what they feed people.
I didn't even really eat jail food, because what they feed
people. I would buy my own food. I don't think you would
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eat it either.
Q And there were times you had follow-up visits
while you were pregnant with this child, follow-up visits,
OB/GYN visits, where you left because you didn't feel like
waiting in line?
A I left two times, and that was because my
attorney was there to visit me. I knew my child was okay,
because I seen him every two weeks.
Q And also during the time that you were
pregnant with this child, the infant that you have, there
are times that you had doctor visits, checkups, and you
refused to allow them to do more blood work? Do you
remember refusing blood work?
A Yes. And, also, if you was to call the
prison and get the right paperwork, I also refused blood
work, because the prison just took the blood work the day
before yesterday and they messed up having to give me the
same blood work over again. And they found it. If they
didn't find it, I would give blood work.
Q And just here in March, March 7th, 2006, when
you had -- you actually had some inpatient treatment while
you were at the facility?
A I had inpatient treatment the whole time I
was there. A lot of people that's in prison have to see a
psychiatrist. Before they even go on another unit they have
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to have a psych evaluation. And they have to see a psych,
because prison can destroy a person's mind, yes, being
incarcerated out of society. So I needed someone to talk
to, yes.
Q Ms. Green, who raised you?
A My grandmother, Ethyl Lee Green.
Q Do you remember just last fall, in October,
telling the people at the prison that you were very upset
and very depressed, because your aunt, who raised you,
passed away?
A No. Because my aunt didn't raise me. My
grandmother raised me. And I wouldn't tell them that,
because I am proud and love my grandmother, and talk about
her to this day.
Q So if that appears on your records, that was
incorrect?
A Yes. That is incorrect.
Q Now, you indicated that there were multiple
times when you -- in this last incarceration where you
threatened suicide. Haven't there been times in your life
when you actually have tried suicide?
A I tried suicide one time, and that was
because I was on drugs very bad. And you can get in touch
with King's County Hospital, Brooklyn, New York, and they
will tell you I tried suicide one time. And that was at the
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1 age of seventeen, eighteen.
2 I have told the jail, because you have to do
3 what you have to do to see somebody in jail. And I have
,4 told them, yes, I am going to kill myself, just so I can get
5 to a psychiatrist and see a psychiatrist.
6 The letter say I am going to kill myself, but
7 it also tell you I didn't have to be hospitalized for it,
8 because all I wanted to do was get to somebody and talk to
9 somebody. And you have to tell the officers in there, well,
10 what do you want to do, kill yourself, in order to speak to
11 somebody. So they have to write that up.
12 Q Here just in February and March here before
13 your baby was born, whenever you told them you were going
14 crazy, and you can't sleep, you can't stand it anymore, you
15 were only doing that so you could --
16 A So I can get to speak to somebody.
17 Otherwise, you can't talk to nobody. You have to tell the
18 CO's that in there in order to see somebody over them, yes.
19 And Ms. Ford work at the jail. She can also verify that.
20 Q She can verify what, that you told them
21 things that weren't true?
22 A No. Ms. Laura Ford work at the jail, and she
23 can verify you have to say certain things to the CO in order
24 to get to someone's office to speak to them. And I really
25 needed to speak to someone, because I had my own issues
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dealing in that jail and that small room everyday, 9:00 to
5:00, behind them locked doors, yes.
Q Is your mother alive?
A No. She is not.
Q Is your father alive?
A My father, I don't even know him.
Q So if you told the prison you were upset and
having problems because your father died, that also wasn't
true?
A I told the prison I was upset because the man
that I looked to as a father have died January the 1st, yes.
My son's grandmother, my five year old, her husband died.
And they help look over me and my sister. And I called him
a father, yes, because I don't know my father, yes.
Q Now, Ms. Green, before you went into prison
In July, how long were you out?
A I was out, what, a month, two months.
Q Was it maybe about three weeks, does that
sound right?
A It was about a month, two months.
Q And before that you had been in prison from,
what, the end of January?
A Yes.
Q Until June sometime?
A Yes.
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Q And before that you were out for about two
and a half months?
A Yeah.
Q November, December and January?
A Yes, I was.
Q And prior to that you were incarcerated?
A Yes. Because that was my life during my
addiction. I never wanted help. I never seeked help. All
I wanted to do was follow my addiction, because I had a drug
addiction. And this is the longest, and I am willing and
able and not going to use no more, because that's what I
want. I want my life. And I have my life right now.
Q Now, at Caton Village isn't it correct that
basically everything you do is monitored?
A That's right. Yes, sir.
Q And to get to the different levels, you must
act properly?
A Yes, sir.
Q And they watch over you to make sure you are
taking care of your child properly?
A Yes, they do.
Q They watch over you and make sure you are
not -- well, can you even go out on the street, out of the
facility?
A Not by myself, no, I can't. I have a buddy.
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I have an escort, a buddy. And where I go, my buddy go with
me. And they have people from outside that work in there,
social workers, counselors, doctors, psych people, everybody
come in there to work everyday, from 9:00 to 5:00, yes.
Q And they are helping you, especially with
your baby, because you have never raised a baby before?
A No, they ain't. Yes, I have really raised a
baby before. I raised some of my nieces, some of my
nephews. I didn't raise my five year old because I had an
addiction problem.
Q You didn't raise your five year old?
A No. And Anthony was supposed to be given to
my family so he can know us when he was, what, not even six
months. I asked for him to be tooken out of the place where
he was placed.
Q Do you believe that Anthony knows who you
are?
A No.
know who I were.
and...
How can he, when they refuse to let him
He is just a baby. He can't come to me
Q Tell me, what's Anthony's personality like?
A How do I know that when they didn't let -- I
don't know -- I gave my child to these people in an
agreement that I would see my child once a month. I would
hear about how my child doing in letters and pictures. And
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the family that I gave him to went against that. So how
else can I know my son's personality when he was a baby and
couldn't walk. I never seen his teeth, nothing. When he
was a baby, I asked him to be given over to my family so I
can know my child, because my family wouldn't keep me from
my child. And they refused to return my son.
Q After the visit in May in last year, that you
now admit occurred, isn't it correct that between you and
Laura Ford the visits at the prison were cut off?
A No. It was said --
Q You have answered my question.
A No. No.
Q And I assume you don't have any idea when
Anthony goes to bed, gets up, how much sleeps he needs? You
don't know anything about it, right?
A I just asked you how can I know that when I
was refused
Q You don't know anything about him, correct?
A No, I don't. Because I was refused to find
out and know any of that.
Q Now, what are your thoughts about Amy
Coover's testimony that if you are straight now, you have
beaten your addiction, you are able to start taking care of
Anthony, that he starts coming over with you for periods of
time?
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A What is my thoughts?
Q Yes. What are your thoughts?
A You really want to know what I think?
Q Yes. What are your thoughts about him coming
to you for periods of time and that increasing?
A I want my child. I don't want my child
visiting me, because I have been promised visits. I have
been promising this -- I want my child. That's my feelings.
Q So no matter how it would affect him, no
matter how it would affect him --
A Where I am at he will get to know me.
Q No matter how it would affect him to just
completely leave this home, the only home he knows, and come
with you, no matter how that might affect him, you want him
to come right now, period?
MR. MILLER: Objection to the form of the
The assumption is made in that without
question.
foundation.
THE COURT: Wait a minute. She seems to want
to answer. I am inclined to let her go ahead.
THE WITNESS: How will you know it don't
affect him that he don't know me? He can't talk to you and
say where is my real mommy. What is she doing. How does
she feel about this. Can he ask you all that? Did she try
and get ln contact with me? Did my real mommy try to get to
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know me? How do you know it is not affecting him?
BY MR. GRIFFIE:
Q So your answer is it doesn't matter what the
effect is on him, you want him?
A I want my child.
Q Okay.
A He can learn to grow and know his real
mother.
Q Now, Ms. Green, the crib and the walker and
the stroller and everything that you have, everything has
been provided for you, correct?
A And with my money, yes.
Q With your money?
A Yes.
Q And how do you pay for this?
A I am starting my income, yes.
Q Do they pay you for the work that you are
saying you perform at that village, at that center?
A It come from the State, yes. Until I get out
of Caton Village and can get a job on my own.
Q The Public Assistance check goes to pay for
this. Okay.
A
That's why they are training me job skills
now.
Q Okay. And you talk about being able to be
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out on your own in six months. Isn't it correct that it is
not an amount of time that you have to be there, it is how
well you do in the program to be able to be out?
A And I feel I am doing well, because this is
the longest I have ever been clean.
Q Listen to my question. It is not at six
months you are out. You have to be doing well and make it
through the steps to be able to be out, correct?
A No. In six months you can leave with your
housing.
Q You can leave, but don't you have to be at a
certain level?
A No. I can stay on Blackout as long as I do
the program and complete their program. I don't have to
make no levels. I am making a level to prove to myself that
I can get on a level. As long as I am staying in that
program for six months I get housing.
Q How many levels are there for you to earn
your way up?
A You don't earn your way out. The levels is
just to get more privileges.
Q And moving out of the facility on your own is
not a privilege?
A No.
Q So somebody on level one could move out?
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A Somebody on level one just get to have their
money on them and get to go buy whatever they want to buy.
Somebody on level two don't have to have an escort. You
only get to levels to get privileges. As long as you stay
and complete their program, you get housing. You don't have
to make it to a level if you don't want. That's on you.
You decide whether you want that privilege or not. You only
go to levels to get privileges.
Q But don't you have to follow the program
properly to get to the next level?
A Yeah. You have to complete your chores and
stuff like that. But if you don't want to get on a level,
that's on you. As long as you make your meetings and do
your chores, you are allowed to stay in that program. And
my meetings are very important to me.
Q Now, just before you had your baby, the
current baby that you have, I am sorry, Jeremiah, just
before you had Jeremiah, isn't it correct that while you
were in prison you were demanding that they put you back on
your various medications?
A No. I told them, Nick Rouse, that I do not
want to take any medication with my son, with my child in
me, because I didn't know if it was a boy or girl, with my
child in me, I do not want to take any medications. My
doctor's name was Dr. T. Thomas, and he will tell you.
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Q So if your records at the prison suggest that
you were demanding that you be given your meds and you were
agitated and screaming and yelling you wanted your meds, was
that another way to get to see a counselor?
A No. Because I never demanded my meds. I
never demanded my meds. I told Dr. T. I want to get off of
7 that Thorazine and stuff. I am not taking that while I am
pregnant. And that's in my records, because he wrote it
down. When you are pregnant and you are in jail, you have
mood swings. You get frustrated. You get depressed. But I
demand not to take my meds while I was pregnant.
Q Can you be out of the facility in your own
place without having a job? Do they allow that?
A Yes.
Q Ms. Green, why do you use the name Belinda
Green sometimes?
A I were using the name Belinda Green.
Q Why did you use that name?
A Why, because I was an addict. I didn't want
to go to jail. During my addiction I lied, I stole. I did
whatever I can do to get high.
THE COURT: We are going to have to take a
break at some point. Let's take a recess right now. And
then we will finish up the testimony of this witness, and
then I understand you said you had a person from --
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MR. MILLER:
THE COURT:
Caton Village by telephone.
Very fine. We will take a
recess.
4 (Whereupon, a recess was taken.)
5 AFTER RECESS
6 BY MR. GRIFFIE:
7 Q Ms. Green, how old are you now?
A I am twenty-nine.
Q When are you saying that you attempted
suicide?
A I were about eighteen, nineteen, seventeen,
eighteen, nineteen.
Q So over ten years ago?
A Yes.
Q I am going to show you what I have marked as,
out of order, Plaintiff's Exhibit No.3.
MR. MILLER: Your Honor, I am going to
object. I understand that Brad may be attempting to
introduce medical records from my client. She has never
authorized the release of any of these records, and I don't
know how Mr. Griffie obtained copies of them, but I think
they are privileged.
MR. GRIFFIE: Your Honor, I subpoenaed the
record keeper, which is the legal office in Philadelphia for
the Philadelphia prisons who provided them. And the lady
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who provided them is available by phone if we need to go
through that first.
THE COURT: What is the proffer here? I
mean, I am beginning to wonder about the relevance of this
material.
MR. GRIFFIE: Well, there is different
matters. Number one I would say is credibility to different
claims that she made.
THE COURT: Are we talking about stuff that's
ten years ago?
MR. GRIFFIE: No, Your Honor. The document
suggests that she attempted an overdose. This one is six
years ago, which has to do with a lesser time frame, but
more importantly credibility --
THE COURT: Well, perhaps if you ask her that
and see whether she agrees with that or not.
BY MR. GRIFFIE:
Q Did you attempt an overdose in the year 2000,
six years ago?
A I told the jail that I almost killed myself
from getting high so much. Yeah. Because I got high so
much. Not because I wanted to kill myself with suicide, it
was because I was getting high.
Q So if it said that, it would be their
misunderstanding?
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A I was getting high so much I almost killed
myself, yes.
Q Did you just here on March 6, 2006, in order
to get out of your cell to make a visit to the counselor,
did you tell them that you just received news that your
mother is in a coma?
A No. My mother been dead, sir, since I was --
my mother died the year before my grandmother died.
Q Did you tell people from the prison that your
mother was in a coma and you just found out about it so that
you could get to see the counselor?
A I might have, because I was in the hole March
6th. Yeah. To get to a phone I would say anything to get
to a phone in jail, yes, I did. To use the phone, yes, I
did. I would tell them anything.
Q And would you have told them that you needed
to see someone because your aunt who raised you had just
died?
A No. My aunt just didn't die.
Q No. Would you have told them that to get to
see a counselor?
A I might have, yes. Like I said,
incarcerated, when you are sitting in that jail, and they
locking you down because of other people fighting and stuff,
you are being locked down for seventy-four hours, you will
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tell them anything to get out of that jail, to get out of
that cell to use the phone and let your family know you are
all right, you will tell them anything.
Q Do you recall, just back in February of this
year, being upset and agitated, and demanding your
medication, I need my medication? Do you remember that
occurring?
A The only thing I can say I needed in jail was
my prenatal vitamins. And if you have records, Dr. Twill
tell you, if it was psych meds, I told him, and he had wrote
it down, I denied those meds because I was pregnant. So the
only meds I demanded was my prenatal vitamins, yes.
Even at the facility I am in now, they asked
everyone in there, do you feel you need meds or anything,
and they will tell you I tell them no. I don't need any
kind of medication.
Q Do you recall an incident at the end of
January of this year, just a couple of months ago, when you
were advised you weren't allowed to use the phone, you
threatened to kill yourself, you started beating on the
glass, became agitated and angry?
A Yes. To use the phone, yes. And they will
tell you, they did let me use the phone. We would get
locked down in that jail for anything. Sitting in that
small cell, no bigger than a bathroom, for three or four
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days, you would do the same thing.
Q And this past December do you recall again
demanding that I can't take it anymore, I am very depressed,
I need my medications? Do you remember making those
statements?
A No. Because I was pregnant in December. So
I couldn't tell them I needed any psych meds, no.
Q So you don't recall that occurring?
A No. The only thing I asked them to put me on
was Benadryl in case I can't sleep at night, which I still
take in the facility I am in in case I can't sleep at night.
Benadryl is not a psych med.
Q And here in the last couple months, before
you were out, threatening to take any pills you could get,
like your prenatal pills, taking all of them to try and kill
yourself, and then throwing them all around your cell?
A Yeah. Because we were locked down that day.
Yes. I remember that day. And you can get the records from
the jail. We were locked down that day, and I got tired of
being locked down. No phone, no T.V., getting your food
slided to you on the floor through the door. Yes. I did
anything I can to get to a phone, yes, I did.
Q And so there were multiple times you became
agitated and angry?
A Yes. Locked in like that, yes. No phone.
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Like I said, who want their food slided to them on the floor
of the door. You locked down because one person had a fight
out of a hundred women. So you are sitting in the cell all
day, all night, three or four days out of the week, over
thousands of people locked up, saying what they got to say
to get to a phone and call their family and let them know is
they visiting. Is they all right. Yes. I had told them
many a things, yes.
Q And the prison that you were in is the same
prison you were ln about three or four times before that?
A Yes, I was.
Q And you kept committing crimes and going
back?
A Yes, I was.
Q Did they change how they treated you from the
first time or second time or third time to this last time?
A No, they don't.
Q Treated the same?
A You still get treated terrible when you go to
jail, yes. That's why I am not never going back to jail,
because I don't want to be treated like nobody anymore.
Q Do you know how many times you have now gone
back to jail, been out and gone back?
A None.
Q No. In your life, back to Riverside?
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A I have been in jail plenty of times. And
this hearing is about my son. I gave my son to the Coovers
in jail so they knew what was supposed to happen when I got
out of jail.
Q And the way they treated you each time was
exactly the same? It is terrible in prison?
A Yeah. That's why I am fed up with it. I am
not going back there, yes.
Q Now, did you say there was or was not a visit
with Amy Coover in April? I know now you are saying there
was a visit in May.
A There was a visit in May. There was a visit.
I have seen my son -- I can't keep up with the dates, but I
have seen him only three or four times since he been born,
when it was guaranteed that I will see him every month. I
will get contact with my son through this program, but I was
denied that.
Q If I showed you visitation records that
indicates that Amy Coover did visit you in Mayor, excuse
me, in April, would that fresh your memory?
A I don't know. All together you counting
visits, my son is how old, I have seen him three or four
times, like I said. I don't know what dates, but I have
seen him three or four times. I was supposed to see him
every month.
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MR. GRIFFIE: That's all the questions I
have.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. MILLER:
Q What was the reason you signed the temporary
custody form in 2005?
A Because they failed to keep the agreement
with this program.
Q And how did that affect you?
A It hurt me. It hurt me bad. That's why I
didn't give my son to nobody -- I didn't give my son to my
sister Nakita, because I knew she couldn't make trips back
and forth. So this program came into my life and said you
will see your son once a month, pictures, contact. I have
no like I said, since he was born. Maybe he would know
me if they would have kept contact with me.
Q Did they keep in regular contact like they
promised?
A No. That's why I signed a new temporary
custody form.
Q In the beginning of 2005 -- well, you
testified you have seen your son three or four times, is
that correct?
A All together, yes.
Q By March of 2005 what was your impression of
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Amy Coover?
A What was my impression, I felt I was lied to.
Q Were you scared of Amy Coover?
A Yeah. I have spoken to Laura Ford about it.
I think I have spoken to you about it also.
Q Why were you scared?
A I was scared that she will leave with my son.
Because like no visits, you know, like regular visits. She
wouldn't answer her phone. I didn't know where he was at,
yeah, I got real scared.
Q Is that the reason you signed the new
temporary custody form?
A Yeah.
Q Do you remember what conversations you had
with Mrs. Coover at the time Anthony was first turned over
to her?
A Yes.
Q Did you ever talk with her or have any
conversation with her about having some sort of interim or
transition period when Anthony would be returned to you?
A Yes. I remember sitting in the visiting room
one day, and she put him on the floor. And she said, look,
he is crawling. And she picked him up. And I said, Ms.
Coover, I know it is going to be hard, but you know Anthony
got to come home to his mommy. I said I know it is going to
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be hard. I said, but it is all right, I will keep in
contact with you and stuff. And she said I know I am going
to cry, because I am a big baby. I cry about everything.
Q But did you ever agree with her or did she
ever propose that there would be some period of time when
she would keep him for a little while and you would keep him
for a little while? Was that ever discussed?
A No. No.
Q To your knowledge does the prison ministry
program have any such arrangement with any of the children
that are placed in the caretaker program?
A No.
Q When was the last time you saw pictures of
Anthony?
A I didn't even know he had teeth or nothing.
When my sister have visits, she have visits -- her last
visit, Laura Ford brought me like five pictures because she
said the Coovers jumped in the visit and said my sister
can't take no more pictures of my son. And it was my
sister's visits. I didn't understand that.
Q Was that one of the main reasons why you
wanted your sister to have visits, so that she could take
pictures?
A Yeah. So I could see my son and know about
my son, yes.
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Q Did Mr. and Mrs. Coover ever promise that
they would send you pictures on a regular basis?
A Yes.
MR. GRIFFIE: I am going to object. This
absolutely was covered in the hearing that we agreed the
transcript would be put in, the termination hearing. All
this last couple minutes was covered.
THE COURT: I don't know whether that's an
evidentiary objection, but it will save us time if he is
right, that this was covered. I don't know if we need to
get into that.
BY MR. MILLER:
Q Do you have other individuals that are able
and willing to help you now that you are on probation?
A Yes.
Q Do you have family members in Philadelphia?
A Yeah. They have been helping me a lot. Even
the people at the program say your family, all they do is
spoil you.
Q What family members do you have in
Philadelphia?
A I have my sisters, and I have my son's
grandmother.
Q How many sisters do you have in Philadelphia?
A I have three.
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Q Have you seen all of them?
A Yes. Even my sister that I don't see send
things from New York for my kids.
Q And that would be Nakita?
A Nakita Green, yes.
Q And she present in court agaln today, is that
correct?
A Yes.
Q She has come with you the last two times?
A Yes.
Q And you said your son's grandmother?
A Yes. She comes every Saturday. She comes
every Tuesday and every Friday. She didn't come today
because I am here in court.
Q And has she brought your oldest son with her
on those visits?
A All the time, yes. On Saturdays he comes
too.
Q Is it a frequent occurrence in the program
that children who have been separated from their mothers are
brought into Caton Village?
A Yeah. Children who haven't seen their mother
from birth to five and six year old, because the parents was
on drugs. So they go to court and fight for their kids.
And the kids that get returned to them come to Caton
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Village. And they have people in programs to help you with
your child and you.
Q And would you able to participate in those
programs with Anthony?
A Yes. I have participated in everything that
program can give me.
MR. MILLER: Those are all the questions I
have, Your Honor.
MR. GRIFFIE:
THE COURT:
MR. MILLER:
Nothing further.
Thank you.
At this time we would like to
call Sabrina Price from Caton Village.
THE COURT: Okay.
(Whereupon, Sabrina Price testified
via telephone.)
MR. MILLER: Sabrina, this is Attorney Doug
Miller calling.
THE WITNESS: How are you doing?
MR. MILLER: I am doing okay. We have you on
a speaking phone here in the courtroom in Cumberland County.
Can you state your full name for the record, please?
THE WITNESS: Sabrina
MR. MILLER: Hang on one second. We need to
swear you in.
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Whereupon, SABRINA PRICE, having been
duly sworn, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. MILLER:
Q Can you now state your full name for the
record?
A Sabrina Price.
Q And where are you currently employed?
A Caton Village Genesis II, 1239 Spring Garden
Street, Philadelphia, Pa., 19123.
Q And what is your position at Caton Village?
A Family Service Coordinator.
Q And how long have you been in that position?
A Since February 21st of 2006.
Q Did you work at Caton Village prior to that
time?
A No.
Q What is your role or what is your --
A Social worker.
Q As a family service coordinator what are your
job responsibilities?
A My job responsibilities are to coordinate and
link referral services as far as housing, education,
after-care coordination, planning and coordinating with DHS
appeals, and/or additional services with the women and their
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children, and any services for the children.
Q Now, in your role as family service
coordinator, have you had the opportunity to meet Shalita
Green?
A Yes, I have.
Q And have you worked with her since she has
been admitted into your program in March of 2006?
A Yes, I have.
Q And how has her progress been?
A Shalita has had much progress since her entry
date. She has been cooperating in her groups. She has been
in compliance with her doctor's appointments for Jeremiah as
well as herself. She has also made significant progress in
communicating with her therapist.
Q Now, there was an occasion that DHS, the
Department of Human Services, had sent someone to Caton
Village to meet with Shalita, is that correct?
A Yes. There was an anonymous call. Someone
showed up, and they said that she was on drugs and alcohol,
but they did not know that she was living in a residential
drug and alcohol facility. They stated that the case would
be closed.
Q Did you meet with Shalita and the DHS
representative?
A I wasn't at that meeting. It was my facility
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director, Avis Sawyer. But it was reported to me from my
director the contact information and the purpose of her
visit.
Q And are you aware of the urinalyses that
Shalita has had to undergo?
A Yes.
Q Do you know how many drug tests she has had,
urine drug tests?
A I know it is a routine when they first come
in. I am not sure of her random urine screens at this time.
Q Are you aware of her having failed any of
those tests?
A No. Not at this time.
Q Did you also have the occasion to speak with
Mrs. Amy Coover?
A I received a phone call. Shalita and I made
several telephone calls trying to contact you. And
immediately, about two minutes after we hung up from leaving
a message with an unknown female at the time, I received a
phone call from another female stating she was calling on
behalf of Shalita Green. And she began to talk, I thought
she was someone from the courts, but as she began to talk
and question what type of facility this was, I thought I
could neither confirm or deny that there was a client here.
Q Did you ask the woman who she was?
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A Yes, I did. I wrote her name down. That's
how I remember when Shalita brought her name up probably two
weeks or three weeks later.
Q And what was the name that she gave you?
A Amy Coover.
Q Do you know, did an Amy Coover attempt to
contact you after that telephone call?
A Yes. There was one more contact. And,
again, I thought I could neither confirm or deny that there
was a client here.
Q How has Shalita done with her new baby that
was born several weeks ago?
A She is doing great. She is actually enrolled
into Health Federations, where they work with incarcerated
women and children, infants from zero to I believe ten years
of age. She has an intake appointment. And they are
getting her together with her WIC, as well as Pampers and
basic needs for her and the child.
Q Have there been any problems with the care of
her son?
A No. Not at this time.
Q Are there situations where children who have
been separated from their mothers for a significant period
of time are brought to Caton Village?
A Yes. We do reunification processes.
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Q Do you know percentage-wise how often that
happens?
A I could say out of sixty to forty. Usually
when the women come they are normally here on their own
until their thirty day blackout period.
Q So it is not limited to just women who are
pregnant then?
A No.
Q Are there special programs or classes that
the women have to attend to assist in the reunification?
A Actually there are parenting classes. There
are family literacy classes. We also have nutrition
classes, family planning, family therapy, child care and
educational services for recovery for the women, mandated
groups that they must attend.
Q How long have the mothers been separated from
their children that are involved in your program?
A Some of them it can be several years, to a
year, to a couple months. Each case is different.
Q Now, we have heard a little bit about the
program from Shalita already, but typically how long is a
mother enrolled in your program at Caton Village?
A It is a nine month program.
Q Now, we have also heard I guess some women
are able to leave after six months, is that correct?
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A It depends on the situation, again, how they
were referred here from their outside workers. Maybe they
were already in the process of other treatment, and they
just had to complete the rest of their treatment for six
months here. But it depends on the referral that was given
to us. Other than that, if it was a self-referral or a
court referral or any disposition, we usually keep them for
nine months. But if it is given to us on a disposition,
yes, we usually go by whatever the referral is.
Q And after that time period, that referral
time period, is there any further involvement of Caton
Village?
A Yes. We have several different agencies that
do after-care coordination and planning, whereas the family
service coordinators will make the initial referrals, set up
the appointments for them to go out looking for housing,
and/or the other agencies they will do the process with
them.
Q You mentioned housing. Are there other
services that are provided after --
A There may be transitional housing --
temporary housing until they get to permanent housing. But,
yes, it is correlated and set up.
Q And is there follow-up with the mothers after
they are released from Caton Village?
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A Yes. We do a thirty day follow-up just to
make sure everything is okay and/or just to check out to see
if they need any additional services.
Q And are they then transitioned into one of
the other service agencies that you mentioned?
A Yes. If they are not in transitional
housing, either the women had an opportunity to save and
budget and get their own housing that we help them with,
and/or, again, we do the transitional housing. And from
there they will put them into permanent housing.
Q Getting back to the program specifically
dealing with older children that have been separated from
their mothers, how typically does the transition work
bringing those children into your facility?
A We try to make it as smooth as possible by,
again, enrolling a child into another type of outpatient
services for their own trauma as well as giving mom life
skills and/or having her receive treatment within the
facility.
Q Is there a limit as to the number of children
that can stay with their mothers in your program?
A The children range from infancy to twelve
years of age. And four children are allowed as the max.
Q Four children?
A Yes.
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Q So would Anthony be able to stay with Shalita
in her apartment in your program?
A Yes. I actually have -- my job is -- even if
the children aren't here, I have them in the system anyway
because I work with the whole family. But, yes, he would be
allowed to stay here. He would go in the room with the
mother in the mother and child facility. We have a single
mother facility for mental health and drug and alcohol. But
this is one for mother and children.
Q So there would be no restriction on Anthony
coming to stay with Shalita in her apartment?
A No. We just go by the agency's guidelines,
as far as like get letting him to go out if he wants to
visit other family members. There are no restrictions.
Q Was it your understanding that there would
need to be any fOllow-up with DHS in Philadelphia?
A Yes.
Q And what was that fOllow-up?
A The follow-up was to contact DHS, make sure
that the investigation was not true, and for them to do a
fOllow-up in closing the case.
Q So they want notified if and when Anthony
comes to live with Shalita, is that correct?
A Well, only because the case was just opened.
But they are not going to keep it as an open case. But,
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yes, we would notify that another child was here.
Q So it is your understanding that they deemed
the complaint as unfounded?
A Yes.
Q Are you aware that they were taking any
additional steps with regard to Shalita's new baby?
A No. Again, she was under the impression that
it was a home that Shalita was living in. She didn't
realize it was a drug and alcohol facility.
Q And we have already entered or marked an
exhibit that shows a number of clean urinalyses that were
performed at Caton Village, and it is signed by your
director I believe. Do you know if that document was
provided to the representative from DHS?
A At this time I am not sure of that question.
MR. MILLER: I think those are all the
questions I have at this time, Your Honor. Attorney Brad
Griffie is going to ask you some questions now, Sabrina.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. GRIFFIE:
Q Ms. Price.
A Yes.
Q Can you explain how your levels work at your
facility?
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A As far as the urine or the agency period?
Q The Level I, II, III, IV, V, what are they
for?
A The levels are for the women, that when they
first enter the program each woman goes on a thirty day
blackout or orientation period, meaning they can't go out on
their own. They need a buddy and/or we call it an escort to
go with them to doctors' appointments for their children,
appointments for themselves.
The next level is a comprehensive program
that they do where they run off a level. Each level
determines their privileges and/or restrictions and going
out and/or doing things inside of the household as far as
chores and/or receiving awards and point system.
Q So is it fair to say that the better you do
in the program the more you advance on the levels?
A Yes.
Q Do you have to be at any specific level to
have -- I will say earned the right to then move into
outside housing?
A Yes.
Q What level --
A It is actually the last level. At six months
we start the process of looking for houses for the women.
But the last level, yes, they may get to go out on their own
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to look for their houses.
Q Is that level six?
A Yes. If they make it to that level. We
comprehend with them do they understand what the level means
as well as their attendance in groups and their behavior.
All of that determines the levels that they run off.
Q And what happens if someone say can't get off
of blackout, they keep having difficulties complying or
meeting their responsibilities and they stay on blackout for
-- well, how long can they stay on blackout?
A Well, actually thirty days is the blackout
period. And we normally don't run into that problem,
because the women usually do what they need to do to get off
that level.
Q And then on level one there has to be a
psychiatric evaluation done, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Do you know whether the psychiatric
evaluation for Shalita Green has been completed?
A I don't have her chart on me. I believe it
is done. I am not sure of the date and the time.
Q Thank you. If someone fails and is requested
to leave the program, are they permitted to come back into
the program some other time?
A What do you mean by if they failed?
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Q Well, if there is an involuntary discharge or
a termination.
A They are allowed to come back in several
times.
Q Oh, you do have them come back?
A Yes.
Q And is that after they are in prison again
usually?
A It depends on each case. Each case is
different again. But, yes, we encourage them if they
need a higher level of care, we will give them a referral.
But at the door, yes, we don't turn them away.
Q And what plans if any does Shalita have for
her other son?
A Shalita is in the process of -- I am sorry,
which son is that?
Q Barron.
A Her plans for her son is, again, he comes to
visit her on the weekends. Eventually, I am not sure, if
Shalita wants -- whatever she decides -- whenever she does
get her children here, she has plans that I sit down with
her to do a prioritized schedule and have academic
activities. Now that summer is coming up, camp activities,
parents and activities with Health Federation. And for the
infant they will teach her how to be a parent. And she also
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gets her own treatment for the children and services for
family therapy.
Q So for the first six weeks or so that she has
been in your program she is being cooperative and compliant?
A Yes, she is.
Q And Barron, the son Barron, at this point he
is just visiting on weekends?
A Yes. Or special visits where I set up with
Shalita.
Q Is there anything specific that Shalita must
do to be entitled for the program to help her get outside
housing?
A Yes. Shalita must comply with her treatment.
She must get off of her -- well, she is not expected to get
off of her levels, but try to get to the next level as well
as comply with her treatment. And also again her individual
and group therapy, family literacy and educational
components of her treatment.
Q Now, would Barron and Anthony both be
considered in your program booklet outside children, what
you refer to as outside children?
A No. They would be considered inside children
when they do come here. But at this time, yes, they are
outside children.
Q So right now the programs that are available
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to Shalita include parenting classes, classes dealing with
feeding the children and caring for the children?
A Yes.
Q And classes dealing with trying to handle
finances, did I hear that too?
A Yes. We also have life skills, again, family
planning, support groups and relapse prevention services.
Q Now, it sounds like a lot. Do they do all of
this at once?
A No. Everything is on a schedule.
Q And if you can tell me from whatever records
you might have what programs is Shalita in right now?
A She is in the parenting program. She is in
her individual and group session program. She is in
education for ABE and/or GED, which she already has her GED.
She is in family literacy. She also does support groups
with our other agency women. She does a lot of
intervention. And we have something called foster
grandparents, because we have a day-care in the building,
where they have to go downstairs for a certain time and
learn how to be parents and interact with their children.
Q How long do these programs run, these
educational programs?
A Depending on the time of the day each one is
according to a schedule. Some may be on Mondays and
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Wednesday. Or others may be on Tuesdays and Thursdays or
Fridays. Each of them are at different times.
Q I am sorry. I didn't ask that very well.
Is
this a SlX week course, a four month course, how long does
it go on?
A Parenting may be a six week course.
Education, that can run a little longer, two to three
months, depending on what stage they are in.
Q What would occur -- what could occur that
would cause you to ask someone to leave the program?
A If they leave on their own, physical
confrontations. Not so much as relapse, but putting
yourself or anyone else in harm or in danger, the children
or yourself.
Q And as they go to different levels, they
start having more rights, correct?
A They have more rights but still more
restrictions with the levels.
Q And right now the level she is on, she cannot
go out of the building by herself?
A No. She cannot.
Q Her television is limited?
A Yes.
Q What she can wear and eat and so on is
limited?
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A Yes. And anyone who drops anything off,
everything is checked. And each family visit is supervised.
Q How long has she actually been in the
program, has she been there?
A I don't have the exact date on me. I believe
Shalita came in March. I am not sure. I don't have the
correct date.
Q Is she still on blackout?
A At this time, again, I don't have the correct
date on me, but Shalita -- I don't have the correct date on
me. I am sorry.
MR. GRIFFIE: That's all the questions I
have.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. MILLER:
Q Just a couple quick additional questions for
you. This is Doug Miller again.
A Yes.
Q Did I hear you say that Shalita does have her
GED?
A I believe Shalita did tell me that she had
her GED.
Q When a child is taken from the outside and
brought inside the program, is that normally done just by
bringing them in and then leaving them with their mother, or
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is there a transition period or a progress to having that
done?
A Usually they just bring them in if there
isn't anything again from the court disposition that they
can't, like a reunification process. But normally, yes, it
is a smooth transition. We are aware of the date, the time,
~ow many. And we will adjust to getting the beds and
everything. But, yes, it is a smooth transition. Whatever
the court stipulates and/or if they come here with the
children, it is a smooth process.
Q So as soon as they are brought into the
program, they are immediately transitioned into the various
courses and programs that you have already testified about?
A Yes.
MR. MILLER: Those are all the questions I
have.
MR. GRIFFIE: Nothing further.
MR. MILLER: I am going to hang up now.
Thank you.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Those are all the witnesses I
have. I ask for admission of our exhibit.
MR. GRIFFIE: I did not ask for the admission
of my exhibit. We only had the picture album.
THE COURT: Would there be some agreement
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1 that should it be necessary to retain that in the record by
2 virtue of appeal or for whatever reason that substitute
3 copies could be made part of this record?
4 MR. GRIFFIE: Yes.
5 THE COURT: So are we agreeable that the
6 original photo album will be returned to the Coovers at some
7 point?
8 MR. MILLER: Yes. That's fine.
9 THE COURT: In the near future.
10 MR. MILLER: We have no objection.
11 THE COURT: And I will leave it to counsel to
12 make an arrangement as to how copies of the photos get into
13 the record if you think it is even necessary.
14 Any rebuttal testimony?
15 MR. GRIFFIE: No, Your Honor.
16 (Whereupon, Mr. Miller closed on
17 behalf of the defendant.)
18 (Whereupon, Mr. Griffie closed on
19 behalf of the plaintiffs.)
20 (End of proceedings)
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.
CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the proceedings are
contained fully and accurately in the notes taken by me on
the above cause and that this is a correct transcript of
same.
~hAAl~
Barbara E. Graham
Official Stenographer
The foregoing record of the proceedings on
the hearing of the within matter is hereby approved and
directed to be filed.
PI" /0 ~ t
Date
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A. Hess, J.
Judicial District
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